@Coder

Quote:

I haven't checked it again today but yesterday it was there even after having switched it off for a few times. It does seem to happen only when I start OWB. But yes, some issues just disappear in thin air. Cheers, Coder

I would copy all data from the disk, discard any that throws the errors you see, then reformat, and copy back. Also look inot getting a new disk, it may not be simple the FS's fault but could be underlying disk issues.

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... Removed by Moderator .... That wasn't very helpful either.

NOTE TO EVERYONE: Stick to the topic and be nice.

Last edited by Darrin on 13-Aug-2013 at 05:38 AM.

@damocles

Quote:

damocles wrote: @number6 Quote: What recovery tools? Ouch! What is Hyperion doing with the money they get from sales?

Oh yeah, like those few hundred sales are paying more than a small fraction of the costs to keep developing AmigaOS4.x!

The way you ask that question makes it sound like you think they are raking in tons of money from AmigaOS4.x sales and blowing the profits on champagne and caviar, instead of providing adequate tools for the OS.

There simply are not enough developers working on AmigaOS4.x (or any other variant of Amiga-Like operating systems, or software), to do all the coding that is needed in a timely manner. Like Darrin has already stated in this thread, ........ NO TROLLING!

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@amigadave

Quote:

Oh yeah, like those few hundred sales are paying more than a small fraction of the costs to keep developing AmigaOS4.x!

Many people weren't aware of the numbers and numbers much larger
than those were mentioned time and time again ...

Other than that people that don't use OS4 and therefore JXFS are all
trolling in this thread so why not lock it completely as it is much better
suited for appropriate developers (company) forums?

@amigadave

Quote:

There simply are not enough developers working on AmigaOS4.x (or any other variant of Amiga-Like operating systems, or software), to do all the coding that is needed in a timely manner.

True. But back to topic. Since JXFS has been promoted for so long in the exact words expressed in prior posts, such as

Quote:

It is the fastest and most reliable file system ever created for AmigaOS.

When we couple that with the posts and links expressing (let's say questions, if "concerns" offends people) then the point here seems to be whether we can get an official recommendation as to whether this file system in it's current state with the s/w we currently have available to us is a safe choice for a user to make.
If instead that reliability -is- somehow based on what s/w a user chooses to use (or something else), then it would be nice to know that officially.

#6

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@amigadave

Quote:

Oh yeah, like those few hundred sales are paying more than a small fraction of the costs to keep developing AmigaOS4.x!

I was under the assumption that there were more then a few hundred 4.1 sales from new machines produced by ACube and A-EON and to those who upgraded their A1s and Pegs. Since you are a moderator on AWN, I will take your figures as gospel. Having even a few hundred sales of 4.1 (minus profit from retailers and whatever minor expenses box software costs to produce), your still looking somewhere between $25K-$30K which is a king's fortune compared to what TeamAROS/Power2People bounty system has seen over the past decade.

Quote:

The way you ask that question makes it sound like you think they are raking in tons of money from AmigaOS4.x sales and blowing the profits on champagne and caviar, instead of providing adequate tools for the OS.

300 or so sales, that is tight but there is clearly enough cash generated to do a minor bounty for recovery tool(s). I'll point out that one of the earliest TeamAROS bounty was to fix AROS' horrid ide.device because it was giving the file system fits. You can not have any type of user community putting up with a filesystem that gets trashed forcing a reinstall as they will not put up with that annoyance. Even more so if you are offering it as a commercial product.

Quote:

There simply are not enough developers working on AmigaOS4.x (or any other variant of Amiga-Like operating systems, or software), to do all the coding that is needed in a timely manner. Like Darrin has already stated in this thread, ........ NO TROLLING!

In the end it's about priorities. I agree, there are not enough Devs (for any flavor) to support everything people would like to see supported. Clearly there is enough, even with 300 sales unless it was mismanaged, to support a very modest bounty for a recovery tool that would allow OS4 community to chip in as well to get a critical piece of software written or ported. I would strongly suggest to the OS4 community to take action on their own and create such a bounty. Heck, I'll even make a small donation if someone creates a bounty as this is truly mission critical tool.

_________________
Dammy

@damocles

Quote:

was under the assumption that there were more then a few hundred 4.1 sales from new machines produced by ACube and A-EON and to those who upgraded their A1s and Pegs.

http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/

Quote:

Total members 530

Considering when this site appeared and the fact that it is a "customer" forum,
the # has to be in excess of 530, given that not every purchaser will join a public forum.

Added since there seems some disagreement as to how long the support forum has been online:
A little over 2 years:
Hyperion Product Support Forum Launched
Quote:

Product registration is required for full access. Everyone else has read-only access.

If you're trying to draw some conclusion based on sales, some of that information is entirely public:
OS4.0 for Eyetech Amigaones was stated as "more or less 1000" in the docs from the lawsuit.
Source
OS4.0 for classic didn't get released until months after that testimony, so therefore can not be counted in that total.
Classic OS4 was claimed publically to be the best seller later on.
If so, that would mean either:
(1)More than 1000 sales of Classic OS4 or
(2)the comment referred to it selling "better" at the time than any other version (not referring to a total number of sales).

#6

Last edited by number6 on 15-Aug-2013 at 06:51 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 15-Aug-2013 at 06:17 PM.

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*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Coder

Maybe I'm wrong but, Owb uses an hidden drawer at the root of the disk to store cookies and tempory files. you should try to delete them.

Regards,
Petrol.

@petrol

Quote:

Maybe I'm wrong

You are
Quote:

but, Owb uses an hidden drawer at the root of the disk to store cookies and tempory files. you should try to delete them.

You are confusing the .recycled drawer I think. JXFS and SFS2 (and sfs 1 ?) have a hidden .recycled ddrawer which enables you to recover recently deleted files. You will likely see OWB cookie related files here as modifying these files deletes the original, thus it appears here.

This is very useful as it can enable retrieving overwritten files as well as deleted ones, in some, not all, cases.

This feature ameliorates the need for the much requested recovery tools IMHO.

Recovery tools are ofcourse a bad thing anyway, you *will* lose data if you reply on them, back up your data and backup your backups.

_________________
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@thread

I'm not drawing any conclusion here, I just think it is interesting to point out, that in the cases where people DO mention what they were doing/using at the time...

It's always about internet applications.
Mostly OWB in this thread.
Constantly about TW on amigans.net
More generally but related:
Quote:

I had the same problem recently with a JXFS partition, the one that had all my internet browsers/tools etc on it.

and:
Quote:

That, and all the trouble with AmiUpdates.

Whereas, if I read eliyahu correctly, who just seems to use JXFS partition to store a/v, he seemingly has no issues.

#6

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@Amiga4000

Fair enough. I wouldn't give up either. But are you talking about the AmiUpdate crashes? Easily fixed if so and now AmiUpdate even has an update.

@RobertJDohnert

Matthew could yes. But given we have SFS2 and JXFS I think these bases should be built upon. They seem pretty stable to me so all we need are repair tools IMHO.

Or, port PFS3 to OS4 if it isn't already and it's tools. Some Amiga people would love to have that native. They remember it.

@thread

Regarding TW, although it may apply to other internet applications:

Quote:

as I mentioned on an other thread, these problems resolved when I installed timberwolf on an ffs2 partiton.

Quote:

Yup, fixed by loading to an FFS partition.

Quote:

if possible, run TW RC-2 from a FFS2 partition and you won't encounter any more problem.

Quote:

Archive works fine on ffs with no alterations.

All from an earlier RC2 thread

But still despite some talk also about a s/w issue, it seems to often go right back to filesystem, with FFS being recommended.
FFS variations also discussed in the thread.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 13-Aug-2013 at 04:18 PM.

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@number6

I find MUIOWB always messes up my Internet SFS parition by fragging it. It then takes agaes to startup. When I defrag or optimise it comes good again.

A self healing filesystem would be good like on the Mac here!

And, as we know, if you have an X1000, you have no recovery tools! Rip out the HD and need another OS4 machine to fix if possible.

Last edited by Hypex on 14-Aug-2013 at 08:46 AM.

@Hypex

Quote:

I find MUIOWB always messes up my Internet SFS parition by fragging it. It then takes agaes to startup. When I defrag ir optimise it coems good again.

Understood. Again this points towards internet usage.

I'm still curious for the sake of JXFS, whether using it merely as storage medium (which eliyahu seemingly does) is a safe bet, or is he just lucky?

#6

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@blizz1220

Generally, situation with Amiga file systems in 2013 is not bright.
So, AOS4 deserves no much more trashing and less action then any.

Posted as feature request officially
http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1917

I am for the JXFS recovery tool (even it seems it rarely happens)
and PFS3 port to OS4

In the future - better and simpler file recovery, hard partitioning etc. tools.

_________________
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@number6

Becareful you are muddying waters here, by introducing the TW issue, this is a seperate thing to filesystem stability. It does not result in filesystem errors as reported above. Simply in non functioning features related to SQLLite databases.

Also whilst FFS2 has been recomended for TW, I can tell you (and just have verified) that it does also work on SFS/0 partitions, in this case my sys partition.

[slight speculation requireing more investigation]
The issue *may* be that SFS/2 and JXS/4 (JXFS) partition do not allow shared write access to a file, and *perhaps* FFS2 and SFS/0 do, need to check on that.
[/slight specuation]

The above involving block errors report describes file system corruption of some kind.

This could be caused by

1. Hard Disk failure
2. Bug in filesystem allow rare corruption (and it is rare because I run YAM on JXFS partition and I can tell I had one issue in it's quite long life time, which I solved by copying data off, and sacrificing the one corrupt mail, and then reformating).
3. Filesystem damage caused by power down during file activity. I suspect this to be the cause of my YAM issue rather than a bug, though perhaps someone might argue that in a journalling FS such damage shouldn't occur.



BTW the amiupdate issue alluded to above is absolutly nothing todo with filesystems at all and simply an install sequance error, where the new app ran with the old library or vice verca, this is resolved, but might catch you out if you have to install from scratch, solution is to instal the whole independent of amiupdate to the latest version (from amiupdare site).

_________________
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@number6

Quote:

Understood. Again this points towards internet usage.

No,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,NO,NO,NO,NO!

IT POINTS TO FREQUENT ACCESS TO CACHE/ COOKIE/ EMAIL DATA/ AND OTHER FILES.

PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE COOINCIDENCE WITH CAUSALITY.

/me takes deep breath.

Also fragging a hrad drive is inevitable if you write a lot of iles to it.

I have to say I've seen no evidence of my filesystem suffereing like this perhaps hypexs partitions are too small?

_________________
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@broadblues

Quote:

Be areful you are muddying waters here, by introducing the TW issue,

Noted. I realized that as I drafted the post, but I was really just trying to narrow JXFS in general down to internet vs non-internet use if possible.

Quote:

BTW the amiupdate issue alluded to above is absolutly nothing todo with filesystems at all

Noted. Thanks. Again, was just looking for any consistency regarding applications reported to be having an issue.

Quote:

No,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,NO,NO,NO,NO!

Heh. You read too much into this. Again, just trying to see if internet applications are where we see this "in general", not exact cause from that application.

Quote:

IT POINTS TO FREQUENT ACCESS TO CACHE/ COOKIE/ EMAIL DATA/ AND OTHER FILES.

That makes sense.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 13-Aug-2013 at 04:55 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 13-Aug-2013 at 04:52 PM.

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Quote:

I'm not drawing any conclusion here, I just think it is interesting to point out, that in the cases where people DO mention what they were doing/using at the time... It's always about internet applications. Mostly OWB in this thread. Constantly about TW on amigans.net More generally but related:

Quote:

Whereas, if I read eliyahu correctly, who just seems to use JXFS partition to store a/v, he seemingly has no issues.

perhaps sequential access without any parallel operations on the same filesystem is safe on jxfs and sfs. it would be in accordance what itix once said about sfs problems and my personal experience.

Quote:

FFS being recommended.

in accordance with my observation ffs being annoying due to validation, but more dependable than sfs.

@hypex
Quote:

Or, port PFS3 to OS4 if it isn't already and it's tools. Some Amiga people would love to have that native. They remember it.

would that be really necessary or just an unneeded micro optimisation? afair 68k filesystems work under os4, first try it out and if its more stable then you still might port it, however you might well introduce bugs just in the process.

id propose os4 users to use pfs3 if possible and see if this solves their woes. the system and the repair tool should work under petunia i think, but i have no os4 set up anymore to just check it out.

@broadblues
Quote:

IT POINTS TO FREQUENT ACCESS TO CACHE/ COOKIE/ EMAIL DATA/ AND OTHER FILES.

i suppose it rather points to frequent random and interleaved file access on the same device. internet cache is just a good example especially if browser is used in multitasking with other applications accessing the drive at the same time, especially when they write.

Last edited by wawa on 13-Aug-2013 at 05:35 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 13-Aug-2013 at 05:35 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 13-Aug-2013 at 05:31 PM.