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      /  AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
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Morphix 
AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 10-Sep-2013 22:12:38
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Aug-2009
Posts: 449
From: Greece

Hello guys I have opened similar topics in the past and thought that the problem was gone but unfortunately not. So I am re opening a new one to list the symptoms clearly asking for some advice willing to face a problem from a different view.

I got an Eyetech AmigaOne XE G3. The system would freeze in random point mainly when I am using some graphics applications like a video player -Mplayer for OS4- It would freeze on random time points if I open many apps, I would have to resent the machine as I am unable to move my USB mouse. Also no keyboard activity I am using an old type ps2 keyboard.

The machine would also freeze when I have the screen saver active.

No freezes if I leave the machine open running a small app like Wookiechat for example. It would run for days, stable.

I thought it is a memory issue so I ordered another memory stick of 512MB and etsted but with the same symptoms.

I run the memtester from a shell it did one loop: no freezes.
In the middle of a second loop it would freeze.

With the older memory stick I have managed to go until six loops without freezes and then I canceled the procedure -control + C-. But it would freeze on different test seasons after first or second loop.

I do not know if my machine has the usb fix. I have tried after such an advice on other forum to boot the machine without the line MODULE Kickstart/ehci.usbhcd on my kicklayout module.:

Quote:

i had terrible stability issues with my SAM and my peg after update 3 and onwards once USB2 support was added to the system. under heavy CPU loading -- such as browsing using MUIOWB or decoding a high-resolution video -- i would get random freezes.

turns out the issue was the USB stack not getting enough CPU time (or something) and not 'seeing' my USB keyboard/mouse for certain periods. it then deleted the devices from its tree, thinking they had been disconnected when they weren't. others have reported similar problems with USB2 support in conjunction with USB2 PCI cards using the VIA VT6212L chipset.

the bottom line is that i disabled EHCI support in my kicklayout file. this means reverting to USB1.1 speeds, but i got stability back. try editing your SYS:Kickstart/Kicklayout file and commenting out the line 'MODULE Kickstart/ehci.usbhcd' and see if that helps. it sure helped me.

-- eliyahu


Also I have noticed that the machine reports one USB Device connected, even if I have nothing connected (!) -not even the ps2 keyboard-! Strange?

The tower I am using has 4 fans inside.
The PSU was purchased with the tower on 2009 new.
I have changed the battery recently.

The machine also hosts a wireless network card and a catweasel they both work good, but I am not using the wireless card now.

The machine runs 4.1.6.

Do you have any ideas / advices?
How can I get rid off those freezes?
Are there any diagnostic applications that I can use?
Is my machine dying?

I do not remember such issues in the past but I was not using the A1 that much.

If you want to know any more details just, ask.

Any help will be welcome.

_________________
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vox 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 10-Sep-2013 22:44:32
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@Morphix

Have you commented out the ECHI (reverted to USB 1.1?)
Are you able to get some more compatible memory like
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=260

What graphic card do you use?

Read
http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1217

Last edited by vox on 10-Sep-2013 at 10:47 PM.
Last edited by vox on 10-Sep-2013 at 10:45 PM.

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Morphix 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 0:05:25
#3 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Aug-2009
Posts: 449
From: Greece

@vox

I have commented this line: MODULE Kickstart/ehci.usbhcd

Is this the one you mean?

Thanks for the info, this article seems to be quite helpful:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=el&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bboah-works.de%2Fprojektfaq%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Dartikel%26cat%3D1%26id%3D9%26artlang%3Dde&act=url

IF the problem is the usb fix which I do not know if is in existence or not in my machine, perhaps the machine would be stable if I DO NOT use USB at all? Got to find a PS2 mouse and test.

How can I detect if my machine has this fix?

Some more suggestions would be great!

EDIT:

I thought that ussing a PCI USB 2.0 card would fix the problem (maybe?). But I got to find one with the NEC Chipset. Right? Tested with two different ones I have here, no success the machine did not even boot. Which is the suitable card / model to go for?

Last edited by Morphix on 11-Sep-2013 at 03:26 AM.
Last edited by Morphix on 11-Sep-2013 at 12:15 AM.

_________________
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Thematic 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 7:47:43
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1616
From: I'm actually flying into a bug!

@Morphix

The 1 USB hardware is the USB roothub present on the motherboard.

_________________
: AmigaOneXE (unmod.) 750FX/512 MB +stuff & AmigaOS 4.(0|1)
: A1200/68060&96MB/SCSI/EM1200-Voodoo3 & OS 3.5
: A500/1MB
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vox 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 9:37:05
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@Morphix

If I was first owner, and never did the fix, surely it hasnét been done.

Since its a bit risky, if I was you:

- I would look at Hyperion support forum on which USB 2.0 cards
do work with ECHI driver and A1 XE and would get it instead of
messing with board fix (unless someone professionally does it in Amiga shops)
http://forum.amigaos.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=317&sid=0746aa107e64e09801253e4d3a0edd8a

- Would get officially good RAM (like from AmiKit) to make sure its not the RAM
causing the problems

If both are ruled out, it might be that board is end of life ...

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elwood 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 11:51:50
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3425
From: Lyon, France

@Morphix

Quote:
How can I detect if my machine has this fix?

If it's a first hand machine, it doesn't have it.
Otherwise you should see some wire on the motherboard but I don't remember where.
At the back you should have this wire and at the front this one.

Other photos are here.

Last edited by elwood on 11-Sep-2013 at 11:56 AM.
Last edited by elwood on 11-Sep-2013 at 11:55 AM.

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raumfahre 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 13:04:26
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Jan-2005
Posts: 330
From: England

@elwood

The fix you show is actually the UDMA fix!

The USB fix only consists of 15K resistors soldered to the USB sockets on the underside of the motherboard. In the case of the XE board there will be eight resistors, four for USB sockets 1 and 2, and also four for USB sockets 3 & 4.

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Hypex 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 15:30:42
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10146
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Morphix

Have you got a null modem cable and a terminal to catch debug output? Otherwise can you recover from the freezes with a soft reboot? If so see if a C:DumpDebugBuffer shows anything.

Regarding USB it's easy to test for the fix. Insert a USB device while OS4 is running. Dies it show up? Pull it out. Does it disappear? Rinse and repeat. If it detects it everytime likely you have the fix.

Also, disabling the EHCI module won't do much unless you have a USB2 card. PErhaps we should send non working USB2 cards to the main developer. It's still not an exact science! You read things on threads like use NEC it always works but it is not so! If it makes you feel better, a developer has a working VIA USB card with exact same PCI ID as a VIA USB card I have, and mine doesn't work!

If you have another PSU try using that to test. Awkward but you can pull the main PSU plug out of the mobo and connect the testing one in place without pulling the whole machine part. Which I hate to do.

Finally, and I hope it isn't this, but your CPU module may need some fine tuning. Possible the solder joints are getting weak. Also possible the module may need to be screwed in ever more slightly. But just be careful if you conclude it to be the module above everything else.

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Morphix 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 15:52:37
#9 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Aug-2009
Posts: 449
From: Greece

@Hypex

Thanks for the reply sir.

I have really no probs using usb stuff, keyboard, mouse and pens is what I have tried all working good.

I am not able to do a soft reboot using keyboard keyboard as it would not respond after the freeze and it is a normal ps2 keyboard but same happens with a usb one. I am able to reboot pressing the reset button on the board. Is it a soft reboot?

At first point, I think that it would be better to find a working usb 2.0 card and try to use this noticing if the freezes would disappear. And / or find an old ps2 mouse to check with no usb devices at all on the machine.

This is a simple and logical test.

If the freezes remain then I got to check the psu, cpu module cases.

What do you guys think?

ps. So if anyone got a spare -tested and working on an amigaOne XE / AmigaOS 4.1- usb 2.0 card can drop me a line and we can discuss a possible selling of even lending for some days, this way I would be able to test. Thanks!

Last edited by Morphix on 11-Sep-2013 at 03:55 PM.
Last edited by Morphix on 11-Sep-2013 at 03:53 PM.

_________________
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wisementrading.com 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 17:10:37
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Jan-2006
Posts: 135
From: Athens, AL - USA

@Morphix

It sounds like heat to me. I have the same problem and it gets worse with more CPU load. Installed these:


SpotCool
and
Case Fan

It has helped A LOT, but it still freezes from time to time. I would say this combo has reduced the lockups by a factor of 10 or more. That's why I think the problem for me at least is the CPU over heating. Also, the tasks you talked about having problems with seem to be CPU intensive ie video player or having many apps open at once.

I think the best fix would be a new CPU fan, but they are hard to find and a risk to instal since the CPU modules are already old and I have damaged one messing with the CPU cooler. I am still waiting for it to be fixed so I can't break my CPU at least until I have it back!

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sundown 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 20:16:03
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5118
From: Right here...

@Morphix

First rule of thumb is to verify your RAM. Grab memtester off Depot, & run it for 1 or 2 loops. http://os4depot.net/share/utility/hardware/memtester.lzx
If it fails with any of the test, thats probably your problem.

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Severin 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 21:28:52
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@Morphix

As the machine is quite old now it could be something as simple as dirty contacts in your ram sockets. Have you tried emoveing and inserting the ram module 10+ times? that should clean the contacts on the mobo then before inserting for the last time clean the contacts on the simm by rubbing in on a sheet of printer paper, just use it to polish the connector.

while you're at it, do the same for your gfx card. it might be the gfx card freezing rather than the system. It it does freeze it appears as if the system has locked up even though it might be working in the background.
A quick test for this if you have a boot sound set up is to assign "Run >NIL: *>NIL: C:SoundPlayer QUIET" to a key with FKey, when the system appears to be frozen press that key, if you get sound it's the gfx card.

_________________
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Visit the Official OS4 Support Site for more help.

It may be that your sole purpose is to serve as a warning to others.

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mlehto 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 11-Sep-2013 23:01:39
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Dec-2004
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@Morphix

As SE owner I recommend you disable usb from uboot and comment out usb from kicklayout. My SE is hopeless usb switced on, random lockouts as you.

Better to get working usb 2.0 card and stick with it. Still onboard usb commented out from uboot. If it is not commented out, it still locks system, even if it is disabled from uboot.

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Hypex 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 13-Sep-2013 17:57:25
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10146
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Morphix

Quote:
Thanks for the reply sir.


You're welcome loyal AmigaOne subject.

Quote:
I am able to reboot pressing the reset button on the board. Is it a soft reboot?


No that would be a cold reboot. Or hard reboot. Soft reboot is AmigaOS reboot.

No matter, just that a debug log doesn't survive cold reboot. I'm sure they could do something about it.

Quote:
What do you guys think?


Personally I don't think a USB2 card will help as that is introducing extra hardware the machine and OS has to deal with. It complicates the situation and unless the problem is USB related there is not much point. USB can be disabled on the board and/or in the OS to see if it is causiing trouble. Forexample you coudl disable USB modules in Kickstart.

And FWIW, for testing A1 USB, I meant the back ports where no extra devices would be connected. It's easy to see a USB device fail on the back ports.

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Boot_WB 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 13-Sep-2013 18:45:38
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@Severin

Quote:

Severin wrote:
clean the contacts on the simm by rubbing in on a sheet of printer paper


A pencil eraser is also a very good tool for this task, although won't help with cleaning the motherboard contacts.

_________________
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Moxee 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 13-Sep-2013 20:46:32
#16 ]
Team Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 6291
From: County Yakima, WA State, USA

@wisementrading.com

Quote:

It sounds like heat to me. I have the same problem and it gets worse with more CPU load. Installed these:

SpotCool
and
Case Fan


I like that case fan from Rosewill. I had to push my XE G4 out of the way when I received my X1000, but when I finally get the XE set up again I'll give that case fan a try. I know it needs more air movement.

_________________
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AmigaOne X1000
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I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

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Deniil715 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 26-Sep-2013 9:31:18
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4207
From: Sweden

@Morphix

What version of MPlayer are you using? The MUI version? This one has a bug that it always opens bsdsocket.library (for streaming, even if you are not streaming), but then it closes it twice! This causes the open count to go below zero and then all kind of wierd lockups and network dropouts happens, usually when you are away and the screen blanker is active.

Also see if you are running low on memory so that it starts swapping RAM to disk. This is buggy and doesn't really work in OS4 and will cause lockups of various sorts.

So:
1. Stop using MUI mplayer.
2. Disable swapping.

Now run for a couple of weeks and see if it helps.

_________________
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K-L 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 26-Sep-2013 9:56:04
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1387
From: Oullins, France

@Morphix

As Sundown said, test your memory. I had a lot of freezes with my former memory stick. I then changed for a new one, a supported one and the all the random freezes disappeared.

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tlosm 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 26-Sep-2013 11:26:51
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2711
From: Amiga land

Check very good the motherboard , I have the same problems here on my pegasos and I find the truth .. There are micro resistors under the ram slot and near the marvel chip who are starting put of micro quantity of acid ... I use for now a anti-fluxant hope soon can send it to the repair assistance ... Probably acube can fix it.plus the capacitors after 6/10 years start loose they're steight and make machine unstable too

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olegil 
Re: AmigaOne problems (again) - Random freezes
Posted on 26-Sep-2013 12:12:34
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@Boot_WB

You guys don't care much about ESD, do you?

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Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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