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PosterThread
AmiDARK 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 28-Aug-2014 9:25:57
#81 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2007
Posts: 469
From: South France

@Overflow
Thank you overflow to bump it :)

With the summer, I was really busy (my baby, my schoolar study at home for a new job, looking for a new home, eetc.) so, I did not make any progress on the AROS port.
more to this, my Sam440Ep is now sold and sent to the new owner (like I said financial problems)... Our financial situation is a bit more "stable now" ... low but stable :)
Things should start go better within the few nexts months (my wife should restart a new job soonly) :)

I have an old laptop that I should prepare to run AROS on it ... But it will probably be done when we'll found a new home where I'll have some place for it .. Here it's too small with the baby now :p

The bounty for the "source opening" project is running there : http://www.power2people.org/
for those that would like to participate.

Regards,
AmiDARK

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Overflow 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 28-Nov-2014 13:24:30
#82 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

The bounty date is slowly approaching, being aprox a month left, and there havent been much in the ways of updates on this project.

Just bumping to hear how things are going?

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Hans 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 30-Nov-2014 20:34:07
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4939
From: New Zealand

@AmiDARK

Do you know if it's possible to update the bounty page to include your youtube videos, or at least some screenshots? Right now the bounty page doesn't even have a link to your website or the latest beta version to download and try. That does little to help people see the potential in the AmiDARK engine, and motivate them to donate.

@all
Here are a few useful links to info about the AmiDARK Engine:

You can download and try out the last beta from the AmiDARK website. It's an evaluation version, but you should be able to compile and run your own stuff and get a feel for what you can do with it. I encourage you to try it out if you can. Try the demos; try customising them, or creating your own stuff.

Here's a code snippet showing how easy it is to load an object and rotate it on screen (a much nicer starting point than printing "hello world"). He's included DarkGDK code to show how similar it is.

If you aren't able to try AmiDARK out yourself, here are two demo videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6cu_kpFmPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_0PduqOy6g

I really do hope that people see the potential in this. Having game engines like this makes creating games much easier, especially for people who would like to do so, but don't have the skills/time to write all of the low-level stuff like rendering, loading objects, playing sounds, reading the joystick, etc.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 30-Nov-2014 at 09:14 PM.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 30-Nov-2014 20:50:12
#84 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1770
From: Unknown

@Hans
Really nice! Personally I find it in closed source form more attractive. Even more than ppaint btw.

Just in case the bounty fails:
I am interested.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 30-Nov-2014 at 09:08 PM.

_________________
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AmiDARK 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 30-Nov-2014 22:24:45
#85 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2007
Posts: 469
From: South France

@All :
I proposed changes to Power2People adding the website, the facebook page, the 2 videos link like it was adviced here.
Down the default price to 1500€ instead of 2000€
Remove the other statements concerning MorphOS machine acquiring proposal and X1000 one as I doubt the bounty will reach these values.

Thank you to everyone for your support.

Regards,
AmiDARK

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marko 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 30-Nov-2014 22:46:20
#86 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Dec-2007
Posts: 1813
From: Gothenburg, THE front side of Sweden ;), (via Finland), EU

@thread

Hope this bounty succeeds!!

Concidering soon to make a second donation to this project, I just gotta top-up my PayPal first...

AmiDARK bounty:
http://www.power2people.org/projects/amidark/

Last edited by marko on 30-Nov-2014 at 10:51 PM.
Last edited by marko on 30-Nov-2014 at 10:49 PM.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FEu2 on Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM
C128, A500+, A1200, A1200/40, AmigaForever 2008+09+16, 5 x86/x64 boxes
Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution...
m4rko.com/AMIGA

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Hans 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 30-Nov-2014 22:50:04
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4939
From: New Zealand

@AmiDARK

Quote:
Down the default price to 1500€ instead of 2000€
Remove the other statements concerning MorphOS machine acquiring proposal and X1000 one as I doubt the bounty will reach these values.

I don't think that you should drop the target, or the MorphOS & X1000 stretch goals. Don't sell yourself short. You've already put in much more than 2000€ worth of effort into it, and you've created something pretty good. It just needs some more work to finish it off.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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AmiDARK 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 1-Dec-2014 9:56:48
#88 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2007
Posts: 469
From: South France

@Hans
I understand Hans but I must be lucid.
The bounty will not reach these amounts, so it's useless to leave them.

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Hans 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 1-Dec-2014 19:32:47
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4939
From: New Zealand

@AmiDARK

Quote:

AmiDARK wrote:
@Hans
I understand Hans but I must be lucid.
The bounty will not reach these amounts, so it's useless to leave them.

If at first you don't succeed, then ... destroy all evidence that you even tried?

Well, you're 100% right that the stretch goals won't be reached... because you deleted them! Seriously, it's okay if they don't get reached. It would have done no harm to leave them in.

Rather than lowering the target and deleting stretch goals, you should be focusing on promoting the bounty and convincing people that it's worthwhile investing in (i.e., show them how the bounty will benefit them). I had completely forgotten about this bounty until someone else reminded me a few days ago. People don't donate to a bounty that they've forgotten about, or don't see the value in.

I see that the bounty has been updated with links. However:
- The Facebook group is closed, so only members can see what's posted
- It really would be better if the screenshots and videos were displayed in the page, instead of expecting people to click through to them

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 01-Dec-2014 at 07:34 PM.
Last edited by Hans on 01-Dec-2014 at 07:33 PM.

_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Overflow 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 1-Dec-2014 20:33:03
#90 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

Just to echo what Hans said;

Your product looks stunning and really something Amiga platform needs.
The bounty suffered from a complete lack of advertising and updates, and while I kept bumping the topic for a while even I forgot about it until recently.

Take Matt Gray and Cinemaware; they got kickstarters up with update section, comments etc where people that have donated to the bounty can communicate.
In addition youtube links and general info is released easy to access.
Several times a week I get emails reminding me about the kickstarter, with updates and comments from the creator.

You obviously spent ALOT of time developing AmiDark, so its a shame you havent had time to keep reminding us about it. Be it with small demos or whatnot.

Just look at zzd10h; "spamming" forums with information about his tools. Very effective and getting feedback probarly motivates him (in addition to income quite recently)
Would have been nice to see a review of AmiDark in Amiga Future and Epsilons blog for example.

Maybe you should extend the date for the bounty if you are motivated to advertise it more?

I see Hans quite loudly praising your product, so the bounty deserves to be successful!

Last edited by Overflow on 01-Dec-2014 at 08:34 PM.

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kamelito 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 1-Dec-2014 20:57:48
#91 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 793
From: Unknown

I play a bit with Dark GDK (in fact the former name that I don't remember) and it was really easy to do things, a lot simpler than SDL or Allegro. AmiDark engine would be great and I think that it would be pretty easy to port source code from DarkBasic or even easier from Dark GDK.
I too think that it's not "marketed" properly :(
Kamelito

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utri007 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 1-Dec-2014 22:48:47
#92 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2003
Posts: 1042
From: United States of Europe

@kamelit0

In current form it interest only coders and now I mean marketing. Demos etc. doesn't tell anything for many of use. Just port one or two dark Basic games to it and spread them public, there woun't be better marketing for AmiDark.

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AmiDARK 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 1-Dec-2014 23:46:54
#93 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2007
Posts: 469
From: South France

@Hans :
It's no that. I just though that these extra goals should motivate Amiga users a lot more ... But I received some aggressive feedback about these from peoples in the French Amiga Community (saying that when we have money issues, we shouldn't buy computer... I think they're wrong because it may be a "community computer to develop more the AmiDARK Engine" and not mine)... But it is really hurt). More to this, some people from the french community had more negative words ...
All these makes me leave a bit more the Amiga world ... Deceived, sad to have the feeling that some peopls appeared to me to have "fake compassion" to others... But it's only my feeling about these events...

More to this, life, my little boy (now 9 months old, and some other things) also makes me be a bit more "far" from the Amiga World ...

All these leads to a standby to everything Amiga related for me ....
In my mind, with all these, I cannot find the desire to continue and spend time promoting the project.

@Overflow : I understand it's a shame ... more to this, I'm not someone that like to be "under the projectors lights" .... that's why promotion is not something I like .. It makes me feel "I'm pretentious"... :( Doing like zzd10h is not natural for me ... I don't criticize zzd10h and he is someone I appreciate, but I'm not like him ... It's probably an error from me ... But I'm what I am...

Thank you all for your support.
regards,
Fred Aka AmiDAK

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zzd10h 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 2-Dec-2014 0:17:34
#94 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 21-May-2012
Posts: 1077
From: France

@AmiDARK

Sorry to seem pretentious with my "spams" on forums...

But Overflow is true, without feedback, no motivation. Frédéric, it's certainly what you missed...the feedbacks.

But please, don't reject these lack of motivation into the french os4 "community".

Last edited by zzd10h on 02-Dec-2014 at 12:28 AM.
Last edited by zzd10h on 02-Dec-2014 at 12:27 AM.

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Comi 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 2-Dec-2014 1:25:24
#95 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jul-2003
Posts: 653
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

Can Amigans collect 5000€?
I know that Trevor D. will support this if he read this...
but Hyperion (technical support) and A-Eon/Relec (discount/credit) should also..
Amiga scene and developers never be so active like this year so... keep the momentum

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AmiDARK 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 2-Dec-2014 9:15:03
#96 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2007
Posts: 469
From: South France

@Zzd10h I've never said you're pretentious. I just wanted to tell that I'm someone more timid than you. It was a real emotional difficulty for me to post "news" of the projects on the Amiga forums. A message on forum it's ok ... but a new in the "news" section is not same thing in my mind...
you have the force to push your work to people and I don't have.
That's also why I said : " It's probably an error from me" that suggested " It's probably an error from me to not be like him".
I admire people that have this force... I'm just not like that.

More to this, I do not reject the entire french os4 community ... There are people that are really important for me in that french community. It's simply harder for me due to some past events. But like it was said in these past event ... some people think It's me that is wrong, so I decided to retire myself from these places. Just the corresponding decision to the precise situation.

Comi : Aeon and Hyperion are also in the problem. I had contact in the past.. No answer for becoming beta tester of AmigaOS4, I asked for Gallium too ... because AmiDARK Engine can be directly dependant on it ... no answer for alpha/beta testing .. Etc ... In the past, I've sent technical demonstration to Trevor but, in my remind he wasn't able to test them on a X1000 (normal no 3D). if I remind he said me he saw them (probably on other AmigaOS4 configuration) but it did not create real interest from him (and then from the AO4 world, side of builder/designer/developer) ... I think it's a shame as the project may help them promote the AmigaOS4 (it's a bit arrogant thinking that I think and I don't like telling this but...) ... But it's their choice and I respect it... But it also help giving me the think that in fact AmiDARK Engine have low interest...

Regards,
AmiDARK

Last edited by AmiDARK on 02-Dec-2014 at 09:16 AM.
Last edited by AmiDARK on 02-Dec-2014 at 09:15 AM.

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Overflow 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 2-Dec-2014 9:47:16
#97 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

@AmiDARK

I think zzd10h takes the "pretentious" and "spam" as both a joke and a compliment

With regards to the whole discussion about "news" and general methods to get attention to the project;

Take AmigaKit; Matthew posts "news" items left, right and center. While some might think that some of the items barely have newsvalue because its a minor change or been mentioned elsewhere/before, atleast its an effective and cheap/free method of raising awareness AND getting feedback. From my point of view its better with TOO much news than none at all.

And hes not the only one that have increased the their activity to get attention and feedback.
Andy, zzd10h, pascal, olaf3, etc
Once in a while these developers get negative feedback from certain people repeatedly, and its important to sort out the prepeptually negative types and those that give constructive critisism/feedback.

As for AmiDark Engine; during his AmiWest speech Trevor addressed the desperate need for CONTENT on the Amiga platform(s). More new/updated software, which Id say includes games.
A solid game engine that is kept up to date seems to be to be imperative.

Last edited by Overflow on 02-Dec-2014 at 09:49 AM.
Last edited by Overflow on 02-Dec-2014 at 09:49 AM.
Last edited by Overflow on 02-Dec-2014 at 09:48 AM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 2-Dec-2014 10:03:28
#98 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1770
From: Unknown

@Overflow
Just to nail it.
If the bounty fails I will buy it for 1500€ and would let the author work further on it because it fits in my plans as well nicely. AEONkit has now a Chance to be quicker : )

_________________
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BSzili 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 2-Dec-2014 10:05:40
#99 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 431
From: Unknown

@AmiDARK

I can't help but feel that you've have missed a few opportunities by stopping just before the goal is reached. Take the AROS port for example. It won't work, because AmiDARK would only set InputBase and TimerBase when input.device and timer.device can't be opened. This is a simple mistake, which could have been corrected by adding a == 0 to the conditions. It only works by chance on OS4, probably because you link with libauto.a, which provides ready to use ITimer and IInput interfaces, so the libbases don't matter any more. A working AROS version would have generated more interest from the kitty-camp. You wouldn't have to proselytize, just let the product speak for itself.

You are put off by negative feedback from the French amiga community, and the lack of interest from Trevor, I get that. I'm equally frustrated that all your work can go down the drain, because of your defeatist attitude. AmiDark would make the entry into C/C++ programming much easier. I think you have done an excellent job, and would love to see it open sourced and the development to continue as an open source community effort.

Last edited by BSzili on 02-Dec-2014 at 10:06 AM.

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Bugala 
Re: AmiDARK Engine Sources for sale
Posted on 2-Dec-2014 10:19:11
#100 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 640
From: Finland

@AmiDARK

As what comes to Trevors comment and interest in AmiDark engine.

I guess that for Trevor, first of all, it seems to me like he is a kind of guy who isnt necessarily very interested in games at all (just the impression i have got, not a fact), but he is someone who gets excited about software, and perhaps even much more than people usually dont.

For example if you look at his retrospective articles. If i would be writing those, I would be writing of game companies, demo groups etc. since those are my interest, but you look at his writings and he puts down even very small details of what some writing programs features were on release from 88, 89 and 90. hence this makes me think that he is actually someone, who is very excited about all kinds of software.

And that is not a bad thing at all, and i love reading his retrospective articles, despite that i would wish him sometimes to write of some game companies as well.

This in mind, I could easily see that first of all Trevors interest might not be so much in game development stuff, and he might also fail to understand the value of game development stuff as well.

But you give him some software making engine made with Amos, and he might already be jumping through the roof from excitement.


This as first background, and then we get to the AmiDark engine project. For as comes through you, you are not very comfortable with marketing, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people are marketers, while some people are creators.

However, due to this lack of marketing (and i am using this word marketing in much broader sense right now), for example I myself have trouble figuring out what exactly is AmiDark and how could it benefit me, or can it.

Everytime I see it mentioned, i check out the content of the message (like this threads posts), and i try to figure out what exactly is that thing and how exactly does it work. But I just dont quite get it.

I pick these little things here and there and try to make a picture of it, but quote cant.

It very much grew my interest that it seems this is language or something, that could cross compile, perhaps to any platform (although support is not there yet for everything).

But It also seems like this might be something that to feel comfortable using it, you would need to be C++ coder or something like that.

Another aspect is that I dont quite get how is AmiDark different (and even better) than for example OpenGL or something like that. Not that I quit get what OpenGL is either that well, but from that I at least have somewhat good picture what it is.

And I dont mean any of this in way "So what is better in this than isnt already in OpenGL or any other dozen things, hu!?"

But I mean in bit allegorical way to put it this way:

I dont have masters degree of computer science. Hence When I look at AmiDark barely, I dont understand what it is, since im missing that degree. If I would be Masters Degree in Computer Science, then all i woudl need to do, would be to look what AmiDark looks like, and I would already know what it does.

And at same time, you havent been able to be the lecturer professor, who is able to tell what Amidark is for someone who doesnt have Computer Science degree.

Or to put it once more differently. Although you dont necessarily understand some complex physical theory, you can usually anyway explain it to even those who dont know about physics in some level, that they can understand how to use it, despite them not actually understanding exactly what or why is it happening. But you havent been able to do this with AmiDark, at least to me.

Hence it is easy for me to see, how this same thing have happened to Trevor as well, especially when hes interest might be more in software than games.

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