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      /  Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
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KimmoK 
Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 20:53:54
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5192
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Yesterday I booted up my SAM440ep, the first time since May.

I found new "feature".
SAM entered in reset loop. I see that BIOS is starting and after SATA is detected BIOS start crashes and restarts.
It went on for a while... I removed ethernet cable etc. to see if they have any effect...

Then... when powering off acer LCD display and SAM started to load kickstart and booted fine.

It did the same today.

Anyone noticed similar?

I had earlier a LG 23" LCD display. But I swapped LG23" and acer24" as acer failed to power on with our main linux supercomputer ( :grin: ).
Acer likes SAM and PowerPC as it powers up unlike with x86 HW.


Anyway.

I can boot up my sam when I keep acer unpowered untill AOS4 is up. Strange but ok.
(my dayjob is to test win 8.1, so, everything different is orgastic)


(other than above ... ~20 AOS4 updates since may...? would have been a pile of CDs without AmiUpdate )
Using Amigalike (not powered my mosBook either for weeks) is wiked !!!!!!

UPDATE: from post 6 forward the experiments with another PSU etc...

Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Sep-2014 at 08:16 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 20-Aug-2014 at 08:58 PM.

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Spectre660 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 21:57:22
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3857
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

I have been having episodes with uboot on my Sam440ep-flex on and off for 3 years now.
So It seems as if some conditions can occur to make booting a problem,
A serial debug cable connected to another computer is your friend here.
If no graphics card is detected you will get loops.
My problem is a freeze after the graphics card is detected were it should detect the VESA mode.
I have had a couple of times when I could not get the Sam to boot for 4 days to a week.
Had the problem this morning but managed to get things up and running by turning on and off about 4 times. when this conditions occurs the reset button does not work.
As the machine will work with no problems for long periods I can only conclude that it is a firmware related issue.


U-Boot 1.3.1e (Jul 5 2012 - 19:02:53)

CPU: AMCC PowerPC 440EP Rev. C at 799.999 MHz (PLB=133, OPB=66, EBC=66 MHz)
I2C boot EEPROM enabled
Bootstrap Option H - Boot ROM Location I2C (Addr 0x52)
Internal PCI arbiter enabled, PCI async ext clock used
32 kB I-Cache 32 kB D-Cache
Board: Sam440ep-flex
I2C: ready
DRAM: 1024 MB
PCI: Bus Dev VenId DevId Class Int
01 04 1013 6005 0401 00
01 05 1033 0035 0c03 00
01 05 1033 0035 0c03 00
01 05 1033 00e0 0c03 00
00 0a 12d8 8150 0604 00
02 00 1002 6759 0300 ff
02 00 1002 aa90 0403 ff
00 0c 10b5 8112 0604 00
00 0e 1095 3114 0180 00
In: serial
Out: serial
Err: serial
Net: ppc_4xx_eth0, ppc_4xx_eth1
SM502: not found
VGA: 1
VESA:

Last edited by Spectre660 on 20-Aug-2014 at 10:04 PM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 20-Aug-2014 at 10:01 PM.

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tonyw 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 23:20:10
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3203
From: Sydney (of course)

@KimmoK

I know it sounds corny, but I'd change the battery first.

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Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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KimmoK 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 25-Aug-2014 19:17:33
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5192
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Today my SAM did not overcome the reset loop via keeping monitor off.

I remove HDD data cable and it did not loop.
Put it back and removed DVD data cable, now AOS4 booted up.
But only for one minute or so, then it started another variable period loop cycle.
In the end it did not come to wb before it restarted again.

12V and 5V looks ok, but to me this all indicates yet another PSU problem. (10y old PSU)

Now I need to put together eur100 for some high quality PSU I think.
(hmmm eur60-70 might be enough...)

Any recommendations for PSU? Well know series for SAM use?

Some fractal design teslas are available for special price:
http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/power-supplies/tesla/tesla-r2-650w ?
readings:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/230v-desktop-power-supplies/Efficiency-Low-Power-PC-25-W,2571.html
+ Corsair CX430M V2 has got insanely good reviews and it costs eur50 or so.

Last edited by KimmoK on 26-Aug-2014 at 07:22 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 26-Aug-2014 at 07:04 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Aug-2014 at 08:06 PM.

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Amigo1 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 25-Aug-2014 21:54:33
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1569
From: the Clouds

@KimmoK

Have you had a look at the date and time if it is set correctly? you can set it in UBoot too.

regards

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KimmoK 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 15-Sep-2014 19:17:27
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5192
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

I have now a new PSU (Corsair CX430M) and things got worse.
Changed also the battery, no help.
Removed and attached RAM dimm, no help.

0)when PSU attached +powered and front switch off, mb led is on
Then powering on from the front switch....
1) only with motherboard attached, PSU stays on 1s, then goes off, mb led stays off.
2) same with HDD and DVD
3) with HDD, two DVDs and internal 5V USB HUB it stays on perhaps 3s, no picture, then off. (data cables do not matter)
4) with 2HDD, two DVDs, USB HUB, the PSU stays on, DVI monitor briefly shows bios to detect drives, then display goes blank, HDD led lits on "forever", no reset loop, just a JAM

WEIRD!!!!

Any ideas, other than adding more and more load & the see the serial output ????

I do not see visually anything broken on the motherboard (no explodedcapacitors etc).

UPDATE: now the hdd led does not lit any more, with or without datacables.
UPDATE: keyboard capslock does not lit the led of the keyboard, mouse laser does not lit

UPDATE: I inserted a dvd and it booted up ... but when dvd stopped screen blanked and keyboard died ...

UPDATE: reset button does nothing.... andcould not manage to repeat the dvd trick yet...
(damn! I have stuff in this that I need to get out...)

UPDATE: managed to boot up gain... after setting mp3 playback from dvd, cd-rom stand alone output via USB powered speakers and cube benchmark running .....stays up....?

Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Sep-2014 at 09:40 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Sep-2014 at 09:19 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Sep-2014 at 08:44 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Sep-2014 at 08:43 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Sep-2014 at 08:36 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Sep-2014 at 07:33 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Sep-2014 at 07:21 PM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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tonyw 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 15-Sep-2014 22:27:39
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3203
From: Sydney (of course)

@KimmoK

I've had a similar problem on my Sam 440ep for years. It's intermittent - sometimes it runs just fine, other times it goes into this reset loop that you describe. I've done all the same things - reseating memory, cable connectors, battery, etc. Usually it fixes the problem for a while, but it reappears the next day. I can't offer any reliable help.

One thing I have found is local heating. On several occasions, I have done nothing more than take the lid off (it's mounted in a plastic Jiffy box with a small fan), let it cool for a while and then it will work again (as long as I leave the lid off).

It may be that you are having warm days towards the end of summer? Perhaps a small fan blowing air over the mobo heatsinks?

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Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 15-Sep-2014 22:52:31
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11568
From: Norway

@KimmoK


Quote:

I have now a new PSU (Corsair CX430M) and things got worse.
Changed also the battery, no help.
Removed and attached RAM dimm, no help.


Disconnect HD, and check what hardware that work and what not, I hope you did not plug in every thing at once. Try only with new RAM, then you try with only new PSU.

If you plugin new RAM and new PSU at the same time then you might add new problem and solve one at the same time. You will never know if you try to replace all components at the same time.

Quote:
UPDATE: I inserted a dvd and it booted up ... but when dvd stopped screen blanked and keyboard died ...


Also have you tried to set "default settings" in uboot?

Quote:
4) with 2HDD, two DVDs, USB HUB, the PSU stays on, DVI monitor briefly shows bios to detect drives, then display goes blank, HDD led lits on "forever", no 


So maybe the PSU is not right for your computer.

Quote:
(damn! I have stuff in this that I need to get out...)


Should be possible to recover some data with WinUAE, AmigaOS4.1 Classic CyberStormPPC emulation.

I have not tried this, but there some thing called a POST card that can be used to get error codes, that you can look-up get information about whats wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POST_card

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Sep-2014 at 04:34 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Sep-2014 at 12:16 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Sep-2014 at 10:54 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Sep-2014 at 10:54 PM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 16-Sep-2014 5:18:51
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1770
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga
I had slightly similar issues caused by faulty sata cable.
It got stuck at the kickstart loader or it was just sitting at a black screen. Sometimes it booted and than crashed during simple copy actions -> when this happens it didn't start for hours.
Replacing the sata cables fixed it.

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KimmoK 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 16-Sep-2014 7:31:23
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5192
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@phoenixkonsole

Thanks for the hint. That I have not yet tried.

Other than that, as:
"after setting mp3 playback from dvd, cd-rom stand alone output via USB powered speakers and cube benchmark running .....stays up....?"

Seems to make it run stable for hour(s) it would seem it might have something todo with the board becoming very sensitive for current & voltage stability.

When I stopped the playback, the 3D benchmark etc... SAM again "died" to black screen in a minute.

(and I got my crusial data out)

@tonyw

I have had the case open and extra fan cooling the board, no effect.

@NutsAboutAmiga

>Disconnect HD, and check what hardware that work and what not, I hope you did not plug in every tine at once.

It does not have any effect, other than it starts to boot only when a lot of HW is attached and ROM drives have something to do to consume power.

>Try only one with new RAM, then you try with only new PSU.

PSU did not have any (positive) effect.
I must see if I have suitable SODIMM to try.

>>UPDATE: I inserted a dvd and it booted up ... but when dvd stopped screen blanked and keyboard died ...

>Also have you tried to set "default settings" in uboot?

Not yet tried uboot settings. Will have to...

Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Sep-2014 at 07:44 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Sep-2014 at 07:43 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Sep-2014 at 07:33 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Sep-2014 at 07:32 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Sep-2014 at 07:31 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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Amigo1 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 16-Sep-2014 7:49:05
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1569
From: the Clouds

@KimmoK

Please verify the clock is set up correctly. I had some issues too when I had not used the Sam for a long time. What you describe is what was happening with my Sam too. Once I corrected the time in UBoot the problems where gone.

regards

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KimmoK 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 16-Sep-2014 8:14:02
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5192
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Amigo1

Set the clock in workbench, it was 6 months off.

Need to check tonight if it was updated all the way to bios/RTC level.

(also a full backup to external media is on my high priority list now)

Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Sep-2014 at 08:17 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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Spectre660 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 16-Sep-2014 15:03:37
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3857
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Possible issue with the Uboot chip ?

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Spectre660 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 17-Sep-2014 10:47:03
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3857
From: Unknown

@Spectre660

after trouble starting every morning for about two weeks no startup.
No Uboot output . Is this the end ?

Last edited by Spectre660 on 21-Sep-2014 at 10:30 PM.

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KimmoK 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 18-Mar-2015 20:45:10
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5192
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Had some time to re-assemble my SAM system to a new case.
It seems the time has not fixed the fault.
My SAM440ep-mini does not boot up.

New SATA cables did not affect anything.
With MBoard + 2,5"HDD + DVD drive + USB hub + mouse + keyboard power stays on for 1s then power goes off.

(with the old PSU, power stayed on but system went to reset loop in the middle of boot up,
before that I had had more rare start up difficulties, only had to try to power on a few times before succeeding)

When I next time have some hobby time I start again adding HW to the system, most likely, with enough hard drives it starts to boot fully up....

Anyone with any new ideas to try?
And especially, how to fix it for good?

UPDATE:
I wonder if there is some issue around power good signal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_good_signal
((Perhaps I should attach oscilloscope to see what happens with that signal.))
UPDATE:
Or perhaps the PSU on does not stay below 0,8V....
http://www.aitechsolutions.net/pchwtrblsht.html
UPDATE:
Need to check that
-standby power (ATX pin 9) is stably 5V when AC power is connected to PSU
-When I press power button MB should set "PSU On" signal (ATX pin 14) to below 0,8V and keep it there
-When PSU starts, PowerGood signal (ATX pin 8) should rise above 2,5V and stay there

If the PowerControlCircuit on the motherboard looses PowerGood, it most likely shuts the system down by rising "PSU On" to above 0,8...2,5V.
Now I also wonder if SAM PCC has upper limit for PowerGood signal... If the too little loaded PSU rises the PowerGood above 5v, can it cause SAM to shut down?

UPDATE:
http://www.formfactors.org/developer%5Cspecs%5CATX12V_1_3dg.pdf
PWR_OK / PowerGood "Logic level high: Between 2.4 V and 5 V output while sourcing 200 μA"
So, if above 5V, it might cause PCC to power off. Need to measure...
++
"The nominal voltage of the Power Good signal is +5 V, but in practice the allowable range is usually up to a full volt above or below that value. All power supplies will generate the Power Good signal, and most will specify the typical time until it is asserted. Some extremely el-cheapo power supplies may "fake" the Power Good signal by just tying it to another +5 V line."

Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Mar-2015 at 11:36 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Mar-2015 at 11:26 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Mar-2015 at 10:57 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Mar-2015 at 10:56 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Mar-2015 at 10:32 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Mar-2015 at 10:25 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 19-Mar-2015 13:24:17
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10114
From: Greensborough, Australia

@KimmoK

Does it behave the same with drives disconnected? So that all you have is bare minimum connected to PSU; mobo, VGA & KB + mouse. And RAM. Infact try without KB+M. I have a USB KB here my X1000 doesn't like at all. Well more to the point OS4 doesn't like at all.

Going from the first post really sounds like a power issue or UBoot is tripped off by something. BTW did you reset the date/clock in UBoot? AFAIK it has to be done in UBoot as it is a firmware setting and Time Prefs won't cut it.

Regarding UBoot, a friend had a Sam machine that went dead, turned out the UBoot chip itself had slightly slipped out. See if you can locate it on the board. Otherwise go through and press in every removabvle chip you see.

Finally, got a serial cable? A UBoot crash dump may not mean much but it could pinpoint where it reboots.

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KimmoK 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 19-Mar-2015 14:27:49
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5192
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Hypex

>Does it behave the same with drives disconnected?

So it seems. Will try more & put up decent log of things I tried.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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KimmoK 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 20-Mar-2015 18:36:10
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5192
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

No big new... other than ... I post this via SAM.

A few extra USB hubs, extra HDD, USB sticks and inari8" tablet attached (charging from SAM) and it then boots up.

So, without any further analysis, initially seems that 5V needs to be well loaded to make SAM boot.
If I remove some 5V load SAm shuts down or does reset loop.

B Back when more time.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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KimmoK 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 5-Jan-2017 9:02:06
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5192
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Still not had time to do any fixes.
(just bringing topic up, if someone has had same power stability issues)

(I might load 5V permanently with 8"Andoid tablet & dummy battery (1Amp) and 12V with 10" Windows tablet without battery & connect to SAM with synergy & put Voodoo3 to SAM to drive 2nd display)

Last edited by KimmoK on 09-Jan-2017 at 01:50 PM.

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elwood 
Re: Back to SAM... (reset loop?)
Posted on 5-Jan-2017 12:35:26
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3425
From: Lyon, France

@KimmoK

or change the PSU by an high quality one (like Platinum certified units).
Quote:
Most of the USB related problem on Sam460ex boards are due a not good enough PSU, the board drain very low power and not all PSU can supply a stable voltage with such a little load. If you happen to have another PSU, please try with it, or in alternative, attach some more load to the PSU, such as another HD or similar device. M3x

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