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tlosm 
Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 29-Aug-2014 14:40:12
#1 ]
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Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2692
From: Amiga land

Outstanding job.


http://eltechs.com/product/exagear-desktop/
Probably they use the same idea of Darwine.

Last edited by tlosm on 29-Aug-2014 at 02:41 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 29-Aug-2014 14:53:33
#2 ]
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Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9835
From: Greensborough, Australia

@tlosm

That is incredible. It's half price!

Well is's good if you are into that sort of thing but in an Amiga context (to which I placed myself when reading the news) I failed to see how exciting it is.

For what it does, that would be impresive, but I thought the move away from computers just being Windows on x86 towards embracing new platforms like Android on Arm meant emulation wasn't needed anymore. I mean, don't they have a plethora of apps? I've placed myself into another context again, so perhaps I don't see how this is useful. However it happened, and I still cannot fathom it; but the computer world isn't just big screens and an x86 anymore. Now that is incredible!

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tlosm 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 29-Aug-2014 15:03:53
#3 ]
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Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2692
From: Amiga land

@Hypex

I say it is the same idea of .http://darwine.sourceforge.net/ Darwine, project closed in 2007 when apple decided to stay on X86... pratically you hava widows api and software run on not X86 hardware.
Immagine this projec exagear ported on PPC side

Last edited by tlosm on 29-Aug-2014 at 03:05 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 29-Aug-2014 at 03:04 PM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 29-Aug-2014 17:35:48
#4 ]
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Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1768
From: Unknown

@tlosm
Aeros does the Same BTW. (Not on pi).
I See already a lawsuite coming.
I assume they make just use of qemu usermode emulation (this is what i do).
This way you can Run wine(x86) on arm Linux


Aeros ppc will be available in around 24hours.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 29-Aug-2014 at 05:37 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 29-Aug-2014 at 05:36 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 29-Aug-2014 19:27:36
#5 ]
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Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4407
From: Portsmouth England

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

qemu usermode emulation


They explicitly state that it's 4.5 times faster than qemu so I'd say that means they aren't using qemu.

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lylehaze 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 29-Aug-2014 19:49:22
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1128
From: North Florida - Big Bend area.

@broadblues

Quote:
They explicitly state that it's 4.5 times faster than qemu


If it's really four times faster than qemu, maybe they should give it a more descriptive name.. like "4Q".. That way if the customer complains later, they can just tell him "4Q".

I wonder how well that joke might translate..?

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tlosm 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 29-Aug-2014 21:33:32
#7 ]
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Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2692
From: Amiga land

@phoenixkonsole

Umm.. Darwine was did the same use the Qemu user mode in junction with Wine, but there was not a lowsuit there, the devs swap the project in Kju ... and Darwine died .... if this guys made system like darwine and working on Arm it will be fantastic because the Darwine was a great idea. I had been try some apps from darwine and are working on my G5 see windows explorer or other windows apps running on G5 is really funny.;) very sed they had adbandoned this project.
Im pretty sure this project is a gui plus probably a better configured Qemu user mode ... have something like this will be really great on PPC (linux).

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 29-Aug-2014 23:09:50
#8 ]
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Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1768
From: Unknown

@broadblues
1. qemu usermode is faster than qemu.
2. they are not the first who took qemu code and rebranded it to something else and taking preorders from noobs.

3. this happend in powrpc land (macs) several times.
4. this is similar to those projects from the past

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 29-Aug-2014 23:13:23
#9 ]
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Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1768
From: Unknown

@tlosm
see my last post. lawsuite was made because a pseudo-company took sourcecode and did not folow the gpl rules.

i smell the same here.

if they would have something, they would not offer it to end-users.
the site seems fishy.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 29-Aug-2014 23:20:06
#10 ]
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Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1768
From: Unknown

works like qemu usermode, smells like qemu usermode, maybe qemu usermode ; )

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rebraist 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 30-Aug-2014 7:43:54
#11 ]
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Joined: 22-Jul-2010
Posts: 148
From: Italia - Napoli

Interesting but benchmark are relative to what x86 cpu?

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Fransexy 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 30-Aug-2014 19:24:45
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2004
Posts: 2333
From: Elche (Alicante), spain

@tlosm

The only real use for this that i see is for run wine. After all, there isn't all linux x86 apps compiled for ARM? if not then there are the source code. there are only a few commercial not open source apps for linux after all

Last edited by Fransexy on 30-Aug-2014 at 07:27 PM.
Last edited by Fransexy on 30-Aug-2014 at 07:25 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 31-Aug-2014 14:49:27
#13 ]
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Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2692
From: Amiga land

@Fransexy

yes , and have wine working on Arm or why not on PPC will mede have simple some software not present on this architecture. I had been used many programs from wine on MacOSx and are working good. Im really courious to know how will be this software run on Alien architecture with wine.

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Daytona675x 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 1-Sep-2014 12:13:51
#14 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2011
Posts: 491
From: Germany

@phoenixkonsole

"We took QEMU user mode emulator and compared its performance with the performance of Eltechs ExaGear Desktop."

Wonder what you keep smelling all the time
In dubio pro reo.
I don't see any prove here or anywhere else that they did not do what they claim they did, only some accusations based on nothing.

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Robert 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 1-Sep-2014 14:13:44
#15 ]
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Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 873
From: Glasgow

@lylehaze

Quote:
if the customer complains later, they can just tell him "4Q".


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tlosm 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 14:56:36
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2692
From: Amiga land

@Daytona675x

If the 4X time faster than qemu are reall it means for example on my G5 i will have a good and usable Windows 7 in emulation. but becasue it use wine api the applications will be more faster compared a pc totally emulated.

They have posted a video of the server version.

http://eltechs.com/product/exagear-server/pilot-version/

I think the benchmark are relative the Arm host cpu.

Last edited by tlosm on 02-Sep-2014 at 02:57 PM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 15:22:59
#17 ]
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Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1768
From: Unknown

@tlosm
Exactly that Video + preordering + strange Benchmarks tell me that it is stolen from qemu.

Qemu usermode Emulation doesn't emulate a full PC.
No Ethernet, no Sound and no GPU is needed to be emulated.
It is roundabout 4 times faster than normal Qemu Emulation and it costs nothing.


Now they offer preordering (!) at a reduced Price (!) ? Huh?

If you are so eager:
Install qemu-usermode install i386 libraries and than install wine(x86) on your arm device. Bams done.

Costs nothing and is available since 2005 on selected smartphones.

Or wait to be fooled ; )

http://wiki.winehq.org/ARM

Status
•Yes, It works! (TM)

AEROS for AmiQube will allow to run Win8/WinCE and Win-i386 apps as well
AEROS for Odroid will be updated as well.
But:
See here:
http://wiki.winehq.org/ARM
•Yes, It works! (TM)

Nothing Special ; )

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Daytona675x 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 15:50:27
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2011
Posts: 491
From: Germany

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:
Exactly that Video + preordering + strange Benchmarks tell me that it is stolen from qemu.

Is it something personal between you and those developers or why do you continue accusing them without any prove?
And regarding preorder etc.: what's wrong with that? Since when are preorders an indicator for illegal business?
Since HP seems to trust them I don't see a reason why you should not.

Quote:
Qemu usermode Emulation doesn't emulate a full PC. No Ethernet, no Sound and no GPU is needed to be emulated. It is roundabout 4 times faster than normal Qemu Emulation and it costs nothing.

Yes, no news here. But they tell us that it is much faster compared to qemu user mode! So I keep asking myself why something that's a lot faster than qemu user mode would "smell like qemu user mode"?!?!?

From what we know there's actually only one statement to make for now until the contrary is proven:
apparently some brilliant russian master coders who don't waste too much time working on their homepage wrote an emulator that kicks ass and beats qemu.

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tlosm 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 15:54:48
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2692
From: Amiga land

@phoenixkonsole

I dont know why you are too much negative with this project .
Boston (server solutions ) altready had been adopted the Exagear server.

check here

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4x2ytxtBMvGL2SZK1GRtZg

If they compare with Qemu probably they made something better can be?

... probably is a qemu dosbox clone this too
http://store.raspberrypi.com/projects/rpix86

Last edited by tlosm on 02-Sep-2014 at 04:00 PM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Wow this is an incredible news
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 17:35:37
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1768
From: Unknown

@Daytona675x
They wrote faster than qemu! Not faster than "qemu-usermode"! This is a difference which matches the 4x faster statement.

I just say that it sounds fishy and that the video is showing something you can achieve with copying Qemu source and rename a few lines.

It is meant as warning and as additional information that all that is available since a long time for free.

They don't lie if they write 4times faster than Qemu.
Qemu is not Qemu-usermode.
Windows Qemu has no user mode for example.
Linux version has.

From wikipedia:
User-mode emulation
In this mode QEMU runs single Linux or Darwin/Mac OS X programs that were compiled for a different instruction set. System calls are thunked for endianness and for 32/64 bit mismatches. Fast cross-compilation and cross-debugging are the main targets for user-mode emulation.

I stop now : )
If they show something which is 4x faster than qemu-usermode than they are good.
But if it was working in August 2013 as a video indicates than why it didn't revolutionize the ARM market ; ) huh?

ok ok I stop now : )

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