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      /  Jamiga, any news?
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Raffaele 
Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 8-Feb-2015 16:12:12
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

No further info since last june 2014...

Are there any major problems emerged?

Or is Joakim involved in some different efforts or perhaps in real life?

http://jamiga2.blogspot.it/?m=1

Last edited by Raffaele on 08-Feb-2015 at 04:13 PM.

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Tuxedo 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 8-Feb-2015 20:23:50
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2326
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Raffaele

+1

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Raffaele 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 11-Feb-2015 7:01:06
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

Up...

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Tuxedo 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 11-Feb-2015 7:23:45
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2326
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Raffaele

but no mail on home page to write?

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Anonymous 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 11-Feb-2015 8:33:58
# ]

0
0

Not sure if it will help, but i alarmed the "official forum" over at amigans.net

 
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Hypex 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 11-Feb-2015 12:48:32
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10704
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Raffaele

I've rarely encountered a Java program I wanted to run on the Workbench or have ran on my Mac. Most of the time I encounter it is in a web browser. And more so in years past. However, I am thinking that the work put into the JAmiga project (and like wise Datyona) should be integrated into a web browser. I think it would be most useful there. And more so if pages supported bytecode over JavaScript.

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Tuxedo 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 11-Feb-2015 14:04:24
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2326
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Hypex

well...
one of the program that I use much on my pc was ps3mediaserver that was a java program...
Ok, maybe not so usefull on AmigaOS but just to say that some good program written and usefull for all purposese in java there was around..

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Raffaele 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 12-Feb-2015 13:17:08
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

@Raziel

Thank you very much!

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Jupp3 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 12-Feb-2015 17:02:52
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Raffaele

If this project doesn't start progressing seriously fast soon, there's a danger that Java will die off completely before we get to use it!

(On web, it's already practically dead)

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Hans 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 12-Feb-2015 20:07:03
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4957
From: New Zealand

@Jupp3

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote:
@Raffaele

If this project doesn't start progressing seriously fast soon, there's a danger that Java will die off completely before we get to use it!

(On web, it's already practically dead)

On the web-browser side, perhaps, but you'd be surprised how many websites/web-services are written in Java.

Also, Android apps are usually written in Java. Google do provide a "Native Dev. Kit" for those who want to create fully native apps, but they discourage it's use. From the NDK webpage:
Quote:
Before downloading the NDK, you should understand that the NDK will not benefit most apps. As a developer, you need to balance its benefits against its drawbacks. Notably, using native code on Android generally does not result in a noticable performance improvement, but it always increases your app complexity. In general, you should only use the NDK if it is essential to your app—never because you simply prefer to program in C/C++.


Hans

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Jupp3 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 12-Feb-2015 20:35:19
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Hans

Quote:
On the web-browser side, perhaps, but you'd be surprised how many websites/web-services are written in Java.


I knew someone would bring that up soon enough

That's exactly why delayed asking the obvious question: What would be the point of running any of them on anything Amiga related, instead of some stable & officially supported platfom?

Quote:
Also, Android apps are usually written in Java. Google do provide a "Native Dev. Kit" for those who want to create fully native apps, but they discourage it's use. From the NDK webpage:


Having Java implementation doesn't magically give us Android. Also, having Android wouldn't magically give us Google Play services (that quite a few Android apps require, I think that might be more of a licensing issue though)

There are LOTS of cash registers in the world. They're really popular. Many of them probably still run MS-DOS, yet I don't find it too restrictive, we can't run it (natively). ANY technology can be popular / widespread somewhere, no matter how obsolete, outdated, bad or whatever it is. That doesn't make it automatically useful everywhere else.

Sure, they can say whatever they like about NDK, but I definitely prefer writing most of any program once so, that it will run on most platforms without big changes (and Java won't give that, and I prefer native code anyway)

Besides, it's been possible to compile code written in many "non-Java" languages "unofficially" into Java bytecode (Google disallowed such programs from play store for a while, but lifted that restriction eventually). Sure, such code would still need JVM, but whenever you don't need to "have it in Java bytecode", it's better to compile into a native binary anyway.

Last edited by Jupp3 on 12-Feb-2015 at 08:37 PM.

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Hans 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 12-Feb-2015 21:53:28
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4957
From: New Zealand

@Jupp3

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote:
@Hans

Quote:
On the web-browser side, perhaps, but you'd be surprised how many websites/web-services are written in Java.


I knew someone would bring that up soon enough

That's exactly why delayed asking the obvious question: What would be the point of running any of them on anything Amiga related, instead of some stable & officially supported platfom?

For fun?

I installed Apache, PHP & MySQL on my Sam460ex, more because I could than anything else. I ended up using it as a testbench for my website, particularly when developing the server side of GfxBench2D. So, it did end up being useful.

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote:
Quote:
Also, Android apps are usually written in Java. Google do provide a "Native Dev. Kit" for those who want to create fully native apps, but they discourage it's use. From the NDK webpage:


Having Java implementation doesn't magically give us Android. Also, having Android wouldn't magically give us Google Play services (that quite a few Android apps require, I think that might be more of a licensing issue though)

You're missing the point. This isn't about giving us Android. With Java being the preferred development language of Android, Java isn't going to disappear any time soon. Being able to program in Java is still a marketable skill.

All in all, I don't see Java dying off any time soon. Flash, on the other hand...

Hans


P.S., Android officially doesn't use a JVM. Instead, they have their own virtual machine. However, that doesn't change the which language the source-code is written in.

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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Jupp3 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 12-Feb-2015 22:51:03
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote:
@Jupp3

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote:

That's exactly why delayed asking the obvious question: What would be the point of running any of them on anything Amiga related, instead of some stable & officially supported platfom?

For fun?


Don't you feel like Java is rather huge "(just) for fun" project?

Of course the project must have started because the original developer thought it would be "fun", no other rational explanation

Quote:
Quote:

Jupp3 wrote:
Having Java implementation doesn't magically give us Android. Also, having Android wouldn't magically give us Google Play services (that quite a few Android apps require, I think that might be more of a licensing issue though)

You're missing the point. This isn't about giving us Android. With Java being the preferred development language of Android, Java isn't going to disappear any time soon. Being able to program in Java is still a marketable skill.

All in all, I don't see Java dying off any time soon.


Yeah, Oracle tried really hard for a while to kill it, but failed

Quote:
Flash, on the other hand...


Well, that's Adobe, they're experts at killing off their own technologies

I still fail to see what this would really have to do with "us"...

Can we use any Amiga-like computer for Android development? (No, except maybe on linux side)
Can we expect large amounts of "Android-to-Amiga" game ports? (No, I'd say)
Can we expect any significant "common ground" between us and Android in the near future? (Assuming JAmiga gets more or less ready, I'd say "not much beyond basic language functionality")
Could Amiga be recommended as a learning platform for any "practical" Java? (Not beyond learning basic control structures etc. due to missing API's)

Also, as you brought network server side up, I wonder if that side has many heavier dependencies on additional libraries that would need to be ported...

Quote:
P.S., Android officially doesn't use a JVM. Instead, they have their own virtual machine. However, that doesn't change the which language the source-code is written in.


I always thought that the thing JVM (mostly) stood for was "Java Virtual Machine"
(And yes, I knew they had their own solution)

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Hans 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 12-Feb-2015 23:32:41
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4957
From: New Zealand

@Jupp3

Quote:
Don't you feel like Java is rather huge "(just) for fun" project?

My point was... you don't have to have a good rational reason to want to use Java on the Amiga.

Quote:
I still fail to see what this would really have to do with "us"...

You suggested that Java might be dead before we get to use it. I merely pointed out that Java isn't going to die any time soon. I used Java's importance in the Android world as an example for why it wasn't likely to die, and I don't understand why you're suddenly trying to debate Android's relevance to AmigaOS. Who cares.

Quote:
Can we use any Amiga-like computer for Android development? (No, except maybe on linux side)
Can we expect large amounts of "Android-to-Amiga" game ports? (No, I'd say)
Can we expect any significant "common ground" between us and Android in the near future? (Assuming JAmiga gets more or less ready, I'd say "not much beyond basic language functionality")

Man, you really have latched on to "Android."

JAmiga already has "basic language functionality," as have several older "Java on Amiga" projects before it. The cruicial missing bits have always been the native implementations needed for Java's standard libraries. **

Quote:
Could Amiga be recommended as a learning platform for any "practical" Java? (Not beyond learning basic control structures etc. due to missing API's)

I used AmigaOS (68K) as a learning plaform for C/C++ even though I had access to better tools elsewhere. I didn't care if it was "recommended as a learning platform" for C/C++ or not.

Quote:
Also, as you brought network server side up, I wonder if that side has many heavier dependencies on additional libraries that would need to be ported...

That probably depends on what you're doing. You don't need the GUI libraries (the main stumbling block for Amiga Java projects so far), so getting JAmiga to the point where it can run simple servlets might actually be easier than supporting desktop applications.

I have no idea how many native libraries are needed for Java Enterprise Edition servers, but that's the domain of large companies and big servers.

Hans


** Yes, I know; Android has its own set of standard libraries. Don't get too hung up about Android.

_________________
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Hypex 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 13-Feb-2015 11:48:26
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10704
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Hans

Quote:
On the web-browser side, perhaps, but you'd be surprised how many websites/web-services are written in Java.


I don't know why. Years ago banks used Java and so you couldn't use an Amiga browser for those sites. Then things relaxed and Java started to become JavaScript where we did have support. And now things like Facebook kill us off again because it became too slow and they introduced JavaScript JIT compilers to compensate where now most sites are only useable on an 8 core CPU. What the hell!! They already had Java which could be compiled to CPU code efficiently, why would they want to compile a script into tokens and then render it to the CPU?! To give the latest Intel somnething to do? I don't understand the modern internnet world.

Quote:
Google do provide a "Native Dev. Kit" for those who want to create fully native apps, but they discourage it's use.


I wonder why that is. Native code should be the best. And if they don't like people using it why did they release it? I haven't seen Android run on anything other than ARM, but if slight CPU differences can be a problem where even user code cannot remain compatible, then I can see the benefit of agnostic bytecode.

And also it looks like that TAO idea Amiga wanted to take off.

And then:
Quote:
P.S., Android officially doesn't use a JVM. Instead, they have their own virtual machine. However, that doesn't change the which language the source-code is written in.


I don't think this should matter. If Java is a major force why aren't there C/C++ assemblers than can compile to Java? With standard and Java custom libs that should be possible.

Last edited by Hypex on 13-Feb-2015 at 12:00 PM.

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itix 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 13-Feb-2015 12:25:28
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Hypex

Quote:

Years ago banks used Java and so you couldn't use an Amiga browser for those sites.


I think it changed when some security issues were made public. Besides, Oracle has been quite lousy to fix their bugs.

Quote:

Native code should be the best.


Native code is not necessarily the best. Byte code can be translated to native code on your own machine optimized for your CPU.

Last edited by itix on 13-Feb-2015 at 12:25 PM.

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EDanaII 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 13-Feb-2015 15:04:50
#17 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Dec-2011
Posts: 87
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:
I don't think this should matter. If Java is a major force why aren't there C/C++ assemblers than can compile to Java? With standard and Java custom libs that should be possible.


JVM implementations of existing languages

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jaokim 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 14-Feb-2015 2:31:40
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 278
From: Sweden

@Raffaele

Hi, I answered Raziel on Amigans.net, but it's mostly "real life" that's been taking up my time lately. So, Amiga is still in the running towards becoming a fully supported Java platform. (Although "running" might be an overstatement.)

To respond to some of the other questions/remarks: my aim for Java on Amiga is to be able to take advantage of the many third party libraries supporting various techniques and standards, for example Excel XLSX-format readers/writers, security stuff, PDF generation, Twitter API, etc. Basically, with some simple Java programming (or perhaps even just ARexx with sufficient JVM support), we could wrap up some quick converters, command line tools to connect our miggies to yet some services.
And, also because it's fun.

Last edited by jaokim on 14-Feb-2015 at 02:32 AM.

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alexw 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 14-Feb-2015 3:14:02
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 6-Mar-2004
Posts: 578
From: Saarbrücken, Germany

@jaokim
Thanks for the update! How about getting other people on board?

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DC_Edge 
Re: Jamiga, any news?
Posted on 14-Feb-2015 10:21:17
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2003
Posts: 189
From: France

What about an openJDK port?
Guess it's a really complex port

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