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      /  Hyperion Entertainment is not bankrupt
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PosterThread
sundown 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 20:28:46
#1701 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@Kronos

Quote:
Actually us "trolls" are the one that pointed out that most X1000-costumers have 0 use and very little interest in XMOS/Xorro making it an useless expense.

No, you trolls keep bringing up crap you know nothing about & posting it as facts. Trolls are experts on everything they've never used, thats the problem.

_________________
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Boot_WB 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 20:47:35
#1702 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@lylehaze

Quote:
Lylehaze wrote:
There is a small, slow netbook running WinXP that is slaved to this task, but it can receive, process and return XC compile jobs from anywhere on the internet.


Possibly silly question....

I'd expect most xmos style objects/code will be small, so would it not be feasible to run a compiler in a virtual machine/emulator/, eg Bochs?

Last edited by Boot_WB on 19-Apr-2015 at 08:51 PM.
Last edited by Boot_WB on 19-Apr-2015 at 08:49 PM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 21:43:35
#1703 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@sundown

You love the "t" word, don´t you?

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Rob 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 22:04:45
#1704 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@Kronos

Quote:
Looking at the evidence and giving Trevor some benefit of doubt on his buisness skills I still think it's far more likely that the X1000 is based on an existig P6T-design that for one reason or another allready had the XMOS onboard.


Varysis hadn't used an SB600 in any previous design so X1000 wasn't based on an existing design. The directors started out working for a company that designed boards based around transputers before they formed Varysis and adding the XMOS processor to the X1000.

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sundown 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 22:47:25
#1705 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@OlafS25

Quote:
You love the "t" word, don´t you?

If it quacks like a duck & walks like a duck, it is a duck.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

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lylehaze 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 23:12:07
#1706 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1142
From: North Florida - Big Bend area.

@Boot_WB

Not a silly question at all.

Some of the first attempts I made were with emulators.

The Xmos developers environment is very GUI intensive, built I think with something called "Eclipse", which was not immediately in my favor. I stripped out the command line tools behind the GUI and got them working from a simple build script.

I then looked around and the simplest DOS emulator I could find was "DOSBox", which I installed. DOSBox runs, but the XMos tools require a 32 bit CPU for operation. DOSBox is 16 bit.

I looked a bit at Bochs, but configuring it was beyond my patience at the time.

I saw that the XDE was also available on Linux, and I can boot into Linux on my X1000. Further investigation showed that the XDE tools are restricted to two flavors of Linux that are specific to X86/32 processors.

I also campaigned the parent company to reconsider their X86-only restriction on their compiler tools, pointing out the irony that we are embedding their processors in our systems, and they are choosing to NOT support the use of their tools on our systems. Nice try, no luck.

There _is_ a third-party compiler effort that is PowerPC friendly, and the last I checked he was close to having clib support, I think.. But that would not support any of the unique hardware and software constructs that make the XMOS chip unique and special.

The XP build system I have also had a number of false starts. I originally planned on using Email attachments to move LhA'd projects in and out of the build machine. I wanted to do as much as I could in Rebol, it seemed a great fit. While Rebol has great email support, the protocols for email security have outgrown our Rebol port, and it's just not possible to make use of it on a modern public network anymore. :(

Please don't take my words as saying any of these can't be done. I'm only saying I was not successful. I am confident that anyone with even average networking skills could do a much better job at this.

About emulation..
the normal development cycle is something like:
1> edit
2> compile
3> load into XMOS chip and test
4> repeat

Yes, it's an endless loop. That is not a typo. :)

I don't know if Bochs will multitask well with AmigaOS, because unless it REALLY loads fast, it's going to slow down the development loop considerably. Jumping back and forth between two OS's just doesn't seem to be a great way of doing it. That was the potential problem with booting in and out of Linux as well. Nice if we can do it, but too slow for the cycle time.

Then again, FTPing the source code out and waiting for it to be returned is hardly elegant either.

On the bright side, Bochs (or whatever emulator) is running only DOS mode, so the footprint should not be too bad.

My current script hack depends on the x86 side to be capable of running a script file whenever a new file arrives by FTP. That script unarcs the file into an empty dir, runs the xc compiler and linker, all the while capturing all text output from the compiler/linker. Finally it archives up the results (including that text file) then the AmigaOS client FTPs the result back home once it is seen in the build directory.

It's probably a security nightmare.. My XP netbook is not something I'm too worried about. It offers NO assumption of "code privacy", except my word that I'm not interested in digging around in other peoples code..
It _could_ be re-created on a local network to alleviate those problems, just replace the name of my server with your local build machine address.

It _could_ be password protected, which could assign each user a private build directory.

If my understanding of how "cloud computing" works is correct, then the environment would essentially be destroyed at the end of each session, which seems reasonably secure. It would also spawn new machines as needed so the possibility of hitting a busy server would disappear too. And it would probably be faster than most home-based servers as well.

This is all kind of random.
I've been in a different project for a while and the details elude me.

:)

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question=(2b||!(2b))

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lylehaze 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 23:45:04
#1707 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1142
From: North Florida - Big Bend area.

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote:
@OlafS25

Quote:
You love the "t" word, don´t you?

If it quacks like a duck & walks like a duck, it is a duck.


_________________
question=(2b||!(2b))

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sundown 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 1:34:08
#1708 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@lylehaze

thanks for the laugh

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agami 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 5:31:01
#1709 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@sundown

Rather than playing the troll game why not post something that would actually shut them (us) up.

Like for instance some research/survey report which shows how many X1000 owners are running something on Xena/Xorro, or a report which shows current level of interest in Xena/Xorro projects amongst X1000 owners.

As simple trolling folk frequenting these forums we don't see much discussion around Xena/Xorro so maybe you can cut us a little slack for walking slowly and carefully to conclusions.

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All the way, with 68k

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agami 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 5:33:01
#1710 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Hillbillylitre

Quote:
Is AmigaOS still DOS based?

All modern operating systems are DOS based. You should choose your terms more carefully.

Last edited by agami on 20-Apr-2015 at 05:37 AM.

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agami 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 5:49:48
#1711 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Xena and Xorro apologists

Five years on it's easy to dismiss the Xena/Xorro choice as something that was not core to the X1000 and the overall mission. But the internet has an excellent memory.

Quote:

From the X1000 marketing copy:

"what is X"? The answer is that X is many things. X is the Xena/XMOS chip, and the Xorro slot that accompanies it...

The world has moved on and custom chips no longer make much sense, but the X1000 offers a customizable chip as standard instead -- "Xena."

Thanks to Xena and the Xorro interface, the X1000 offers extraordinary flexibility. We believe that with this easy gateway to the world of "Software Defined Silicon" and a path to massive parallelism, the X1000 will once more make the AmigaOS platform the best choice for truly creative and unique applications. For custom hardware control from robotics to theatrical lighting, for hobbyist creativity, for hardware hacking and for a multitude of applications we haven't even imagined yet, the X1000 is a dream platform -- and therein lies another meaning of "X," the unknown. It is you, not us, who will define the future...

XENA
The Nemo designers had a brilliant idea: "Why not add an XMOS chip"? Once, there were custom chips; for the AmigaOne X generation, we have customizable chips. XMOS calls it "Software Defined Silicon," we call it "Xena," a nod to the old custom chip names. It's the inheritor of the "transputer" concept, and it's something we're quite excited about...


My favourites from the copy are "brilliant idea", "quite exited about", and "It is you, not us, who will define the future".

Five years on it seems it's neither us nor them.

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resle 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 5:55:58
#1712 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

@agami

Quote:

All modern operating systems are DOS based.



no.

Last edited by resle on 20-Apr-2015 at 05:56 AM.

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 6:36:27
#1713 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@agami

Thanks for pulling that Xena info out and dusting off the cob webs. The Xena chip was nothing more than a marketing gimmick designed to get classic Amiga enthusiasts who are still in awe of custom chips to bite the bullet and buy an X1000.

Even the sales pitch admittedly states that custom chips no longer make sense, so Xena certainly wasn't added to the X1000 because it made sense to the designers or was a good idea to begin with. So again, it was just a sales gimmick. It should have been left out completely to keep the ridiculous costs under control, but the outrageous prices have to be justified somehow, so why not use Xena as the excuse.

Quote:
The world has moved on and custom chips no longer make much sense, but the X1000 offers a customizable chip as standard instead -- "Xena."

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Yssing 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 8:01:21
#1714 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1084
From: Unknown

@agami

Quote:
Rather than playing the troll game why not post something that would actually shut them (us) up.

That is never going to happen, trolls never shut up.

_________________

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Rob 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 8:36:19
#1715 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@sundown

I don't think Kronos is a troll. I might not necessarily agree with everything he says but I don't think he's the type to say things just for the sake of it and he certainly doesn't jump in on every thread about X1000 etc simply to state the "bleeding" obvious.

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Raffaele 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 9:34:54
#1716 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote:
@OlafS25

Quote:
You love the "t" word, don´t you?

If it quacks like a duck & walks like a duck, it is a duck.


Accually is Doolan!

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

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Raffaele 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 9:51:28
#1717 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

@agami

Quote:

agami wrote:
@Hillbillylitre

Quote:
Is AmigaOS still DOS based?

All modern operating systems are DOS based. You should choose your terms more carefully.


Duh! And /me who believed DOS is just a module of the kernel that is the "real" operating system itself.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

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agami 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 9:54:55
#1718 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Yssing

Quote:
That is never going to happen, trolls never shut up.


Well not if you don't try.

I've been accused of trolling, and most people who know me think of me as a rational and reasonable guy. If the logic is sound then I concede.

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All the way, with 68k

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agami 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 9:58:56
#1719 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@resle

Quote:

resle wrote:
@agami

Quote:

All modern operating systems are DOS based.



no.


Yes.

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Boot_WB 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 20-Apr-2015 13:08:02
#1720 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@lylehaze

Quote:

lylehaze wrote:
@Boot_WB

Not a silly question at all.


Phew!

Quote:
The Xmos developers environment is very GUI intensive, built I think with something called "Eclipse", which was not immediately in my favor. I stripped out the command line tools behind the GUI and got them working from a simple build script.

I then looked around and the simplest DOS emulator I could find was "DOSBox", which I installed. DOSBox runs, but the XMos tools require a 32 bit CPU for operation. DOSBox is 16 bit.

I looked a bit at Bochs, but configuring it was beyond my patience at the time.


There must be someone around with a suitable emulated 32-bit Dos... Tlosm seems to enjoy configuring emulators so might be worth asking for a hand. Qemu also seems capable of doing what you need (from the qemu wiki).

Quote:
About emulation..
the normal development cycle is something like:
1> edit
2> compile
3> load into XMOS chip and test
4> repeat

Yes, it's an endless loop. That is not a typo. :)


It just feels that way.

Quote:
I don't know if Bochs will multitask well with AmigaOS, because unless it REALLY loads fast, it's going to slow down the development loop considerably.

A build script initiated on the AOS side could be wrapped in a call to raise/lower the emulator task's priority during building.

Quote:
Jumping back and forth between two OS's just doesn't seem to be a great way of doing it. That was the potential problem with booting in and out of Linux as well. Nice if we can do it, but too slow for the cycle time.


Don't know if any emulators are available with save-states, which could help in that regard. Something minimal, eg built on nanoxp would be the way to go i guess even if it has to boot only once per session.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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