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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion Entertainment is not bankrupt
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PosterThread
cdimauro 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 21-Apr-2015 17:50:05
#1761 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
Why do you want to invest time and resources on such crappy stuff?

Because we aren't you...

Lucky me.


@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote:
@cdimauro

I don't think you know what an "I/O chip" usually is, but an XCore is not that.

It's not a VIA/CIA, obviously. I wasn't referring to such kind of classic I/O peripherals.

You have an high degree of programmability with the XCore. I know it, and I've also studied its assembly and opcodes structure. But in the end it has only I/O pins to handle and to interface with the world: that's why I called it "I/O chip".

I don't know if there's another term. May be "I/O processor" can better fit.
Quote:
There are things you can do with an XCore that is way beyond anything a normal MCU could do, far into FPGA territory.

FPGAs are quite different. What's in common is the ability to drive the available I/O pins, but in the end FPGAs are programmed in a completely different way and usually you can get much more that what an XCore can be, but the huge drawback of requiring A LOT of effort to develop something.
Quote:
However, I personally would have liked it better if they had just put a smallish spare FPGA in there for playing around with.

FPGAs are much harder to program, so the target is very limited.

I think that a DSP with direct access to the memory and/or PCI-Express would have been a better candidate, with a wider acceptance and a bigger usefulness.
Quote:
The XCore is somewhat like the QuiccEngine of the PowerQuicc processors, including selected P and T series QorIQ members. In fact, I would go so far as to say it's EXACTLY like the QE. Except the QE comes with binary code only, because Freescale hasn't seen a market for letting most people write their own code.

Honestly I don't know the QuiccEngine.
Quote:
I have about a ton of features wishes in products here at work that could fairly easily be solved by an XCore,

Absolutely.

The problem is related to the X1000's XCore, which isn't useful having a bandwidth of only 15 or 30 MB/s (and who knows how high is the latency). It's too much limited.
Quote:
but the Windows based development is really putting me off it.

That happens with some tools which aren't well written. It's a common problem, unfortunately.


@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote:
@olegil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5eU8pHpy-c#t=21

The context is missing. How the XCore was interface with the "world"?


@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
I have never ever seen anyone who has managed to come up with a use for it at all, it offers nothing at all beyond PCI/PCI-E and USB. It's completely useless and completely worthless. The only thing it achieves is adding cost to an already crazy price.


A catweasle like floppy controller, ports legacy for joysticks and other input devices, MIDI, LCD controller etc. All things that you can probably do with USB or a PCI card but if you could have them all on one board that requires fewer support chips it could make sense. Of course, it would only be only be worthwhile if it work out cheaper and you had use for a number of different features.

That would be a perfect use case, since it's an I/O chip/processor.
Quote:
Giving it access to the PCI-e bus also allows the possibility to interact directly with other devices such as the video card or sound card which could have some interesting possibilities.

Very very limited, indeed.

Often I read about people which wishes to have ECS or AGA chipset emulated by some coprocessor. I strongly doubt that the XCore is capable of such task, with it's limited bandwidth and high latency.


@blizz1220

Quote:

blizz1220 wrote:
@Rob

Custom Design
[...]
The CPU requirement was satisfied using a BGA variant of the Freescale
MPC74xx family of integrated processors. DMX, MIDI, Ethernet, USB, IDE and
dual VGA outputs were then added using a mix of discrete and integrated circuitry.
[...]
So yeah , a custom chip best used for controlling light effects on concerts

For sure.

However, such use case talks about a MPC74xx SoC, which is a PowerPC and not an XCore.

Anyway, even using an XCore, you have to consider how it was connected to the other peripherals.

Just to be clear, the problem of the X1000 is not of its XCore itself, but how the latter is connected and, by consequence, its limits.
Quote:
My little contribution to unlocking thread

Despite it's completely off-topic, it let people express some interesting information.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 21-Apr-2015 17:50:33
#1762 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@agami

Your understanding of operating systems is flawed.

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cdimauro 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 21-Apr-2015 17:54:59
#1763 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
On the contrary, that's quite an unfair comparison.


Comparing MorphOS/AmigaOS to Risc OS, MiNT or BeOS/Haiku?

That's another thing.

If you limit the comparison to the post-Amiga o.ses, you ends-up with the facts that I've reported.
Quote:
I don´t share your interpretation of my opinion (as usual).

Seriously, what was wrong with it? I'm not used to manipulate other opinions.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 21-Apr-2015 18:15:51
#1764 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
I'm not used to manipulate other opinions.




Quote:
If you limit the comparison to the post-Amiga o.ses


If you re-read my post 1630 (you replied to), you will se my comparison was to world outside Amiga (and derivates).


As I didn´t used MorphOS (yet), I will refrain from direct comparison. I have (rather extensive) experience with AmigaOS, AROS, MiNT, Risc OS and BeOS/Haiku - these OSs are in similar situation (years after the fall of their platform), so comparison is fair.

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cdimauro 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 21-Apr-2015 20:37:49
#1765 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3621
From: Germany

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
I'm not used to manipulate other opinions.




Quote:
If you limit the comparison to the post-Amiga o.ses


If you re-read my post 1630 (you replied to), you will se my comparison was to world outside Amiga (and derivates).

But I've quoted #1620 before #1630, and in general before #1630 there was a (sub)discussion where (look also at #1618) regarding the status of AROS which was compared to the other post-Amiga o.ses.

Context is important also, right?

Quote:
As I didn´t used MorphOS (yet), I will refrain from direct comparison. I have (rather extensive) experience with AmigaOS, AROS, MiNT, Risc OS and BeOS/Haiku - these OSs are in similar situation (years after the fall of their platform), so comparison is fair.

Yes, the situation can be similar, but AmigaOS(4) started with a huge code base which was also widely tested by 5+ millions of users.

That's a BIG difference with other hobby o.ses. which were rebuilt from scratch and just with the documentation.

So, if the situation is similar, as you stated, the development is absolutely not, because other o.ses had a bigger development.

I hope that it's clear now.

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blizz1220 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 21-Apr-2015 21:15:06
#1766 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

That was from Varisys homepage and example of what they
can do for their customers.

All similarities with AmigaOne X1000 are pure coincidence I'm
sure :)

But they do light effects and use PPC technology among others.
They can even build new P3 / Celeron based system if needed.

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agami 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 2:56:28
#1767 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@kolla

Quote:

Your understanding of operating systems is flawed.

And you offer up which non-DOS modern OS to support this claim?

@Hillbillyliter was asking if AmigaOS 4.x is still DOS based. He was obviously hoping to make some simple judgement about how stuck back in '90s the OS is. When in fact all modern operating systems are hampered in some ways to their "baggage" from the '80s and '90s.

But again, if my understanding of operating systems is so flawed then it should be easy to find facts that would set me straight.

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agami 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 3:02:54
#1768 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@blizz1220

Quote:
Custom Design
Working with Varisys for your custom design requirements ensures that you can make use of the vast experience in strategic component choice, proven design building blocks, and key supplier relationships. Our approved supply chain will eliminate the risk associated with developing processes and procedures for new designs. Varisys are able to marry this approach with lifecycle and component obsolescence management. Varisys are able to minimise the possibility of project overrun through the experience of managing large numbers of custom design projects every year. We are able to focus on designs, free from the everyday interruptions that in-house engineers face, enabling us to meet our customer’s milestones every time.


Pure marketing fluff.

Manage component obsolescence? Manage A-Eon out of the PPC, there's your case study.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 4:00:36
#1769 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@agami

Your definition of DOS and your idea of "a family of operating systems" based on DOS is something that only exists in your imagination. If you believe your controverial understanding is the correct one, then the burden of proof is on you. No modern OS I know of relies on adressing blocks on disk, filesystems sure, but they can be on any medium. Abstracting away from underlying medium by using filesystems happened a mighty long time ago.

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toRus 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 10:11:51
#1770 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 210
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:
@BigD

I find it really childish your continues "PeeCee", "Windoze", rants. How old are you?


Unless someone is a 15-year-old with no real care for history, middle aged man with no respect to technology or a 80-year-old with Alzheimer this "rant" _should_ always be the case.

Last edited by toRus on 22-Apr-2015 at 10:13 AM.
Last edited by toRus on 22-Apr-2015 at 10:13 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 11:39:15
#1771 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@agami

Is Linux SH and Bash a type of DOS? If so you can say that Linux is DOS based, but rally it's not, it a Unix command line interface (CLI), sometime referred to as GNU.

Sometimes all so called a terminal, it dates back to when all the computer power was located in the server room, and when computer was just a keyboard and a b/w screen, or maybe a matrix printer, and did not have a CPU or anything like that.

AmigaOS has CLI as well it's called AmigaDOS it's blueprint comes from TRIPOS, actually it has many names CLI, SHELL, AmigaDOS, KingCON.

On other question, you need to ask your self is MS Windows DOS based? Windows has something called a Console that many program depends on to execute commands that are MSDOS compatible. In the server versions of windows and Windows7 and 8, you have Power Shell, it’s a so called improved version of Console. (so the MSDOS console is not going away any time soon)

MacOSX also has CLI, it's called terminal and it's a SH/Bash shell.

So basically most if not every operating systems today have some kind of support for a DOS like shell/terminal thing where you can execute commands.

And no AmigaDOS/SHELL/CLI is not MSDOS based, its TRIPOS based.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 01:57 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 11:59 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 11:57 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 11:56 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 11:50 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 11:42 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 11:40 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 11:40 AM.

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agami 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 12:57:06
#1772 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga & @kolla

Yes, all modern Unix/Linux based operating systems are DOS based. You don't need to label something with DOS for it to be DOS based, after all CP/M was DOS based and was not called CP-DOS.

CLI and shells are interfaces to the OS and not the OS itself.

The concept of a computer file and a file system predate the application of a disk (disc). But none of the modern file systems in use on disk-based operating systems use sequential file systems E.g. Just because we use higher level languages does not make computation non-binary based.

When you are installing an OS on a computer what is one of the first things you have to do? Partition your data storage medium and apply a file system. Without the principles of DOS, an operating system cannot know where a specific bit resides.

You coupled the concept of DOS with the '80s products of DOS. Honest mistake. I'm not entirely sure why it so hard to admit that there is more to DOS than the products you remember.

@kolla I come up with all sorts of examples to support my statement. I don't simply write "Your view is flawed". If you were to do the OS research I have done, you would see how when that guy decided to write that OS he based on this other OS that this other guy based in large part on this other OS which was based on this old '70s mainframe OS which is the origin of of DOS. Ergo, all modern operating systems are DOS based.

Last edited by agami on 22-Apr-2015 at 01:01 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 13:26:21
#1773 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@agami

Quote:
The concept of a computer file and a file system predate the application of a disk (disc). But none of the modern file systems in use on disk-based operating systems use sequential file systems E.g.


You mean like tape drives and TAR archives, that’s old concept, you need to go back to old mainframes of the 50's. I guess the C= C64 was like that.

Anyway, ISO 9660 file system used on CD's where sequential, this way it was useless when CD+RW drives came on the market. Yes, it pretty common file system, and I do not know of any OS that does not support it.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 01:51 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 01:27 PM.

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jorit2 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 13:48:35
#1774 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@Thread

Truth is in the eye of the beholder

But I figured this might be a useful intermission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 22-Apr-2015 at 02:24 PM.
Last edited by jorit2 on 22-Apr-2015 at 02:23 PM.

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Boot_WB 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 14:05:47
#1775 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@agami

Wow. Are all OSes still punchcard-based aswell?

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 14:32:31
#1776 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Boot_WB

However, it is true that all normal computers are binary based, ON's and OFF's, or 1's and 0's.

Well there are quantum computers, but I am not sure if they are more theoretic concept or something useful, in quantum computers you have 1 (spin up) and 0 (spin down) and undefined sates or quantum sates (spin left and spin right), so you have 4 different sates instead of 2 sates per bit.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Apr-2015 at 02:33 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 15:12:42
#1777 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
Context is important also, right?


That is why I emphasised MY post you quoted.

Quote:
started with a huge code base which was also widely tested by 5+ millions of users.


Code base requiring rewrite for different CPU architecture, removing legacy dependencies and still maintain backward compatibility. Sure, old code base is benefit - in some cases, but also hindrance in others.

Quote:
So, if the situation is similar, as you stated, the development is absolutely not, because other o.ses had a bigger development.




What features these OSs have and AmigaOS not? Gallium3D, Ambient, anything more?

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bison 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 15:15:33
#1778 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@pavlor

Quote:
Only thanks to all these dedicated personalities this thread is still alive!

This thread really isn't alive -- it's more "undead" than anything.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 15:18:57
#1779 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@bison

Quote:
This thread really isn't alive -- it's more "undead" than anything.


Like our beloved Amiga?

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klx300r 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Apr-2015 15:22:27
#1780 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3833
From: Toronto, Canada

see post 1675

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! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
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X1000 I BELIEVE

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