@kamelit0
Quote:

This logically imply that a migration to X86 will not help

Except it doesn't.
People don't switch from OSX to MorphOS because it lacks tons of modern features/applications. Which is true for OS4 as well of course.

No offence intended, but that was a very silly/poor line of reasoning.

On the other hand, the simple fact of allowing AmigaOS to run on cheap, commodity hardware VS an extremely expensive motherboard/system is basically guaranteed to hugely boost the userbase.

This way AmigaOS obviously wouldn't evolve overnight from a "hobby" operating system to a full fledged, modern OS (thinking otherwise is foolish at best), but it would still be far, far more easier to "jump in" than having to spend hundreds of pounds/euros on extremely limited, semi-custom hardware.

Last edited by Turrican3 on 18-Feb-2015 at 01:10 PM.

@andres

Quote:

In my opinion, the biggest limits of the AROS project are mainly related to the model chosen (similar to the confusing Linux distributions), organization, strategy (i.e. the idea of supporting more and more hardware, from x86/64 to PowerPC, to 68k and more...). A model like Haiku, with an only and official distro simply called AROS on x86, with the few resources all focused on that, would have helped a lot more.

Haiku's model isn't helping Haiku getting a larger userbase either. Both AROS and Haiku share the similar fate of being the rewrite of a parent OS, naturally targeting to their father OS' userbase. Haiku has just the single advantage that Be Inc has dead, bringing the commercial BeOS into the grave with her. Unluckily for AROS, this isn't true for AmigaOS, which has a ligitimate successor and even another "clone", fighting for the same userbase. Moreover, the Amiga community - differently from what BeOS one did - almost rejected the project and rarely helped it, without any real motivation. What AROS didn't succeed in, however, is almost the same goal AmigaOS 4 failed completely: keeping former Amiga users loyal to the platform.

Why? Because other operating systems offer what users need, with more stability, more software, more hardware support, more security and more advanced features, at lower functional prices. Average Joe does not buy a computer system because it's an Amiga, a Mac or whatever, they buy a computer because they need to run software on them. Stop dot.

And, sorry for you andres, but fragmentation of AROS over different platforms isn't a flaw, but a strength of the project. We can now run with various degrees on different architectures and processors (AmigaOS fans says AmigaOS should be 64bit? AROS already is. Since ages), running from the oldest M68K Amigas to the fastest x86-64 PCs, though ARM-based smartphones and tablets. This means AROS will naturally grow with these platforms and won't be ever stuck with dying and unpleasant technologies like PPC CPUs. Ever. Even the distribution model, which is "confusionary" only for people not accustomed to it, is good: you can have your favourite kind of AROS based on your personal tastes, although using the same programs. What would you need more?

Oh, yes, I always forgot. Amiga fans always had a mommy company giving them her soup, and never considered cooking a different soup by themselves. They wouldn't even call 'soup' their dice. AROS gives you ingredients, you cook the soup. And it's soup, like it or not.

@paolone
Ok, that's only my personal point of view.

Anyway, as you - rightly - suggest Hyperion/A-EON to finally understand that continuing to focus on expensive hardware like the X1000 will not bring to a bigger user base, I guess that the AROS community should seriously take a look at the fact that after 20 years from the start of the project, the user base is equally small (or even smaller than AmigaOS), considering the idea that trademarks or not, if these are the results some big mistakes must have been made.

_________________
A1200/020+68882 - 6 MB RAM - AmigaOS 3.0

Home Recording Audio

@andres

2002-2004 the "NG" market was created with AmigaOS/MorphOS based on PPC. Unfortunately (people can correct me) AROS was still not there, expecially regarding 68k integration (I think I read first version was 2009) so you had a OS that was running fast but lacked software because of no 68k support. People decided themselves for either MorphOS or AmigaOS, many of those left but mostly dropped Amiga in general then. And those who stayed have their preferred environment with their individual software, patches and configuration. I have the same problem with Aros Vision and the 68k community (what might change with exclusive components like QT5 in future).

Regarding the user base, it is difficult to say in total. I have about 500 downloads (last version) but it is also used in Aeros and it is in Pascals App Store. And of course I do not know how many use it regularly. Then there is Icaros Desktop (X86), Aeros (X86 and ARM including Raspberry support). I think Pascal said 1000 registrations for Raspberry alone.

In short: biggest mistake was that 68k integration not had first priority

Last edited by OlafS25 on 18-Feb-2015 at 03:59 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 18-Feb-2015 at 03:58 PM.

@paolone
I totally dig your paragraph about AROS fragmentation.

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fra.planet-d.net | www.emucamp.com/

@andres

Expanding the user base doesn't necessarily equal to profit. Unless someone miraculasly believes that any cheap NG Amiga (like) OS running on an affordable platform marketed under cheap price will gather thousands of users, then this person lives on a pipe dream.

Let me explain it otherwise: To make a turnover of 200k euros with A1000X you need to sell around 67 machines. To make the same turnover with Amiga OS 4.1 sales (sold under 30 euros each) you need 6.667 users. I am not adding here financial risks such as bank costs, currency fluctuation etc, I am presenting the most simplified argument just to make the point clearer.

And what's the profit margin between the two? I work on the sales deprtament of an export company, I can assure you that the most profitable products are the ones priced higher. Same goes almost to every indrustry ofc (automobiles, constructions etc).

Therefore, I am betting that if one commercial entity (from Hyperion and A-EON) works on (let's call it at least a semi functional - not driven totally from enthousiam, passion, ego whatever, you name it) business plan is A-EON ::: the company that sells a machine for 3k Euros to run a 30 Euro OS ->>>>> See the business catch?

Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 18-Feb-2015 at 04:17 PM.
Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 18-Feb-2015 at 04:17 PM.

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@OlafS25

Quote:

In short: biggest mistake was that 68k integration not had first priority

First priority was to get AROS stable. AROS had too few Devs and far too many things that had to be done for stability and increasing hardware support. Now as far as UAE integration, there was a bounty set up long ago and the one Dev (who was also a major OS4 Dev) who requested it, sat on it for two years before the bounty was reopened.

The fact that AROS survived and is at it's current development state is a miracle and a symbol of dedication by a hand full of Devs. AROS' past should be celebrated as triumphant dedication over massive obstacles. AROS' future should be optimistic and hopeful as the OS improves over time.

_________________
Dammy

@OlafS25
Yep.

1024 registered Aeros for Pi users.
2-3 / month new in 2015.

The App Store has 309 registered users + a few with fake emails wich will be deleted later this year.

My target is to keep it small.

I am running a so called "Kleingewerbe" "small business" which must stay below 17500€/year.

This is quite quickly reached if you consider 1000 people buy something for 10€ + you buy and sell a few system bundles.. therefore I mainly run www.ares-shop.de from january till march or in between the year... all the other time i set the availbility of computers to 0. 2013 for example was filled in one week because i had one order of a few CAD-Worstation

Reads:
If I would run a serious business I could do more. But not enough to compete with my real job so it is not interesting to me.

So my intention is to go 100% software to reduce the factor of "buying Hardware".. so the 17500 is getting more and more "earning" and less paying.

Long story short:
Within a few month we will have a cloud service, App Store, chat, lossless video codec and usenet alternative exclusively on Amiganoid systems. Than we will fully concentrate on porting and creating new software and games with the same enthusiasm. (Amigakit does as well, but for now they concentrate on getting old well known Software)

I had between 2010 and 2013 a heavy lawsuit which pushed me down on the AROS side.. now I can just spend the time and money on my hobby. The positive side-Effect i had won and so i get reparations month for month which even raise month for month.. so with time I will be able to push it more.

All that independently if it is successful... I give a damn sh*i about success : )
As long it is fun. For me 1000users is a win. And there are high chances to meet them on events.

What I can say is that we will surpass this year Ubuntu in terms of user services.
In general i am not competing with MOS or AmigaOS or Windows or OS X..
My target is to beat Ubuntu and after that Android : )

- igo packages will compete with deb
- indieGO! Appstore with Ubuntu Software Center
- Amicloud with oh... wait.. Ubuntu closed their cloud service
- libertynet will offer a usenet like service
- MiNX will be the answer tho cortana or siri.. and Ubuntu's... oh wait... what has ubuntu?

You see everyone has his own enemies : )

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 18-Feb-2015 at 05:19 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 18-Feb-2015 at 05:15 PM.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

We need developers developers developers to quote SB...
How fast is OS 4.1 on an i5 laptop 1.5,ghz 4gb ram?
Kamelito

@Turrican3

This Will kill the HW so basically AEON and Acube. I suppose that Hyperion kind of convince them that x86 is a dead end and as HW vendors do not control the OS it's PPC or nothing.
They should have done a x86 system that they sell a bit higher than what you can buy elsewhere and do a protection mechanism like Morphos and ship them via pre-order when they break even they ship, extra sell are bonuses. We'll see then if they are pirated.
Auto censorship is the best censorship.

Kamelito

@kamelit0

Quote:

They should have done a x86 system that they sell a bit higher than what you can buy elsewhere

The only way I see of doing that is ro make a new type EUAE for PowerPC only to emulate AmigaONE, a pure x86 version of AmigaOS4 will lose all support for 680x0 Hunk and PowerPC ELF binaries and developers then need to compile separate builds.

Quote:

protection mechanism like Morphos and ship them via pre-order when they break even they ship

AmigaOS4.1 has already a protection mechanism you need a account to get updates, and you need to have registered your product to get downloads.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@kamelit0

Quote:

How fast is OS 4.1 on an i5 laptop 1.5,ghz 4gb ram?

On PC I use right now (Core i5-2500K 3.3 GHz) is WinUAE/PPC emulation comparable to 500-1000 MHz 604e (except FPU), I expect it could be close to 500 MHz PowerPC on your laptop. However, there are severe limitations (128 MB RAM - not enough eg. for Odyssey). Adding Z3 RAM support (more than 128 MB Fast RAM) would be one hour work for one OS developer (you may ask Hyperion about that feature ).

@andres

Well unlike Linux however AROS distros as far as i can tell (still going with 2010 know-how) share the same kernel elements taken from the ABI_v0 (for x86) stable branch so there is not the same linux fragmentation given by package managers and formats; distro differentiation is more at a higher level.

_________________
Scarabocchi Binari - Italian AROS Blog
Binary Doodles - English language AROS Blog

@pavlor

Could be nice to hack the kernel to permit that but I suppose that it'll need an updated WinUAE.

Kamelito

@kamelit0

Quote:

need an updated WinUAE.

No, you need new OS4 kernel - it is only upon Hyperion to do that change.

@pavlor

Quote:

No, you need new OS4 kernel - it is only upon Hyperion to do that change.

then you might need to wait as long as they are bankrupt.

seriously.. ppc doesnt seem to be any close to 68k emu, so why bother. with its limited speed, memory and rtg, and demanding practically illegal ppc rom images to run it os4 just cant be more usable under winuae than aros68k which is free of all these limitations.

Last edited by wawa on 18-Feb-2015 at 08:39 PM.

@ne_one

Quote:

The Amiga spirit shouldn't be preserved. It should be reborn.

Yes, I think so too.

Thought experiment: imagine that we all woke up tomorrow and found that OS4 had been ported to x86-64 and released under a BSD-style license. A lot of us would be in a state of euphoria for a few weeks until we realized that there's still not much application software, and not many people outside the existing community are any more interested in Amiga than they were before. It is likely that the only long-term benefit would be to push AROS development along quite a ways.

But defining the "Spirit of Amiga" is hard, since no two people agree on what that is. This is especially a problem when a lot of it is rooted in fond memories of yesteryear that can't even be defined. We need to have focused discussions on what is SoA, what is not SoA, and what is in between, followed by a series of polls to see if there is anything even close to consensus. If there's anything that the Amiga community is good at, it's discussion and polls.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

Seems Hyperion and anyone who takes over are doomed to fail.

Just been reading this very informative site

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Amiga

_________________
If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

@wawa

Quote:

seriously.. ppc doesnt seem to be any close to 68k emu, so why bother. with its limited speed,

CPU speed is similar (well, latest PowerPC emulation is a littlebit faster than 68k JIT ).

Quote:

then you might need to wait as long as they are bankrupt.

As adding support for Z3 RAM is trivial change, I don´t think bankruptcy is so important factor there. And current court decision is not final, of course.

lol wicked news cant wait until someone good gets hold of the rights to it .

these low lifes only ever brought it out for rich geeks i mean old technology for shed loads of money joke.

i for one am so happy cant wait to see all them crap ppc,s on ebay lol lol.

whos selling theres on here already lmao

so awesome man im so happy ive been waiting for this news for years good bye.
now lets bring a real amiga back with real amiga hardware not ppc bullcrap.

i bet your all so gutted all you little geeks lol lol lol .

now you got an expensive under powered linux machine lol lol.