@AmiDARK

"Good night poor dogs hungry on a piece of meat suspended on a wire too high for you,"

No, Frédéric, you are not a star (not "a piece of meat suspended on a wire too high for you")

Come back to the earth and see the reality, please.

Don't make you more ridiculous that you are.

I saw the "issues" on SourceForge before that you removed them (1 or 2 days ago).

I remember this one about a "division by zero". A guy reported it, I don't remember the name.
You used a 0,00000001f to avoid a division by zero, seriously ?

"if x = 0 then x = 0,00000001f"
to avoid " y / x " when x = 0.

If I remember well, you replied in sourceforge "error tracking is not implemented yet, it's to come..."

Sorry for the approximation, it's what I remembered.

IMHO you should replied "I'm not a professional, like many others OS4 coders (zzd10h for example), but as, since 3 years I ask for money for my work AND that I asked for a review with this bounty, I HAVE to give a good code, sorry I will deliver a fix..."

Me, like AstroFra and Overflow, I sent money to this bounty, I will take it back for projects that come from more serious men !


Edit : i would like to add that I was in the top 10 of the donator in your bounty and that I was the only one french (certainly worlwide) to test all the iterations of your engine on OS4.


Edit edit : i have too the AmigaNG link where you were not very nice with Kas1e (the man that allowed to deliver, with others, Fab, Thore, Deniil,.. OWB and MPlayer). Honestly, Roman and his team delivered more useful programs than you (and that me). When i reread this thread on AmigaNG.org, it's a shame for the whole french os4 community...

To be brief, please, stop to think that you are a victim of a cabal and accept the criticism.

2 years ago, I sent my SysMon code to Corto, you will agree with me, it's an os4 master. He laught (politely) but he said me where i was wrong. I spent 2 weeks to rewrite all. Boring work because it worked before. But now, my code is better, i learnt from him (and I'm still learning from others professional devs from AmiOuest team, Alex, Olrick and Corto).

Last edited by zzd10h on 21-Feb-2015 at 01:51 AM.
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@AmiDARK

You really should have taken my advice, and stopped trying to argue with Daytona675x. You're not going to change his opinion of you by arguing with him, but you will get more aggressive and condescending replies. Seriously, haven't you had enough?

I strongly encourage you to stop talking, and just work on your game engine quietly. At this stage you're unlikely to be able to change people's opinions with a whole load of words. If anything, more people are getting annoyed.

What will change people's opinions for the better is delivering results. You clearly believe in your AmiDARK engine project. So, keep working, keep learning, and deliver improved versions.

Hans


P.S., Don't dismiss the "coding style" issues altogether. Good coding style makes code easier to understand, and can make it easier to detect certain types of bugs.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

I don't know why you encourage him but, please, reply to this question :

-how do you test his engine on your AmigaNG with RadeonHD GFX card ?

Thank you (and sorry)

Last edited by zzd10h on 21-Feb-2015 at 02:08 AM.

_________________
http://apps.amistore.net/zTools

@zzd10h
You didn't understand the depth of what I said .. I t has nothing to do as a "star"... It has nothing pretentious ...
It show you really don't know who I am and I'm really sad about this...

@Hans :
So, how can I speak of the AmiDARK Engine on the forums ?
Whatever I do (ignore, answer powitively, etc...), I'll get aggressive words. And the thread is irremediable polluted.
I am no more free to share about the engine because some people try to impose their dictatorship to the forums ... No more democracy, no more freedom here...

Last edited by AmiDARK on 21-Feb-2015 at 07:32 AM.

@AmiDARK

I think the issue is your approach to bug reports. Yes Daytona is sometimes sarcastic, but the majority of what he writes is objective and code related.

Take this thread http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68828&page=15

matthey and biggun is discussing and disagreeing on several points, but they, for the most part, keeps it ON TOPIC and objective. They discuss development and it never ends up in a "i feel my way of doing things is better". They stay objective and rather professional in their tone, even if its a hobby project they are discussing.
There are even some "trolls" in that thread, but biggun doesnt seem to let them annoy him. He stays ON topic, development related and objective.

Then take this thread on Amigans;

http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6450&order=

The thread stays on topic, problems are handled objectivly.

Same with this thread http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?start=0&topic_id=6564&viewmode=&order=ASC&type=&mode=0

Then we have a thread where things are going very slow;

http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6286&order=

And Varthall is doing some work and investigation, but is saying from post nr 1 that his free time for hobby projects is very limited. He accepts the issues with Milky Tracker and says flat out that he will look into the issues as time allows.
Thats something pretty much everyone can relate to and accept without reservations.

Ive read Amigans over time, and I cant remember any threads where a bug report have been flat out rejected without reason. If a report comes in and the developer discovers its the bug report that is wrong, its explained objectivly.

And; as Ive said before; im pretty much code iliterate, but from the outside I can see what Daytona has produced. Hes clearly a good developer, so any objective comments from him seems hard to dissmiss. That said; just because hes good at what he does, doesnt mean he cant make mistakes.
If you think he is wrong about something, explain and show it in a objective manner.

Ive seen Kas1e in threads where he makes deductions about code and someone else comes in and explains to him the errors in his reasoning. He asks questions to understand the logic and at the end of it, he has gained knowledge.

At the end of my post I want to say; I really hope your engine gets developed and succeed.
Maybe stick to Amigans, as there is less noise there
But you have to learn to NOT take code/bug reports personally.

thellier's comment was a good one "SO JUST CODE & STAY FACTUAL".
Thats how its done in bigguns thread and on every development thread in Amigans.

@Overflow :
It's useless to answer you overflow, you can't understand.
I have already explained but no one read what I write.
All people only see what they want.

There is only freedom here for those that try to hammer others. It's a fact.

Last edited by AmiDARK on 21-Feb-2015 at 08:58 AM.

@AmiDARK

Well, if thats how you feel; Good luck with your project and stick to Amigans as there are less "noisemakers" there

@Overflow
Thank you.

@AmiDARK

Quote:

I have already explained but no one read what I write. [...] There is only freedom here for those that try to hammer others. It's a fact.

Ok, here's what you write...


Quote:

And what will happen to your donation? [...] When I'll get enough, I will acquire new Amiga NG computers to continue the development of the AmiDARK Engine [...] It's an idea that will probably takes many months to reach enough [...] That mean the project should restart before ending 2015.

... and here are the facts:

- you ask people for money that you MAY use to buy hardware ONE YEAR FROM NOW, to work on some personal amateur project that MOST PEOPLE CONSIDER BROKEN, and that in the best case could be fixed in ONE MORE YEAR.

translation: "give me some money. In the best case scenario, in 2017 you will get a closed-source amateur engine"

- in the process you keep bantering with perfect strangers about your electro-whatever disease, your financial problems, your wife's stuff etc.



At this point it's simple:

You should be either hiding somewhere in shame - OR - apologize and reset the whole discussion to "here's an amateur project I was working on. Let me open-source it and let's complete it together!"

@AmiDARK

wanting money for a closed software is really new to me

you can ask for personal and voluntary donations if you like but do not connect it with your project. Either opensource it without any bounty or continue to work on it and then make it shareware. I know it from many game libraries that are closed. Free for free projects and if you use it commercial devs have to pay for it. I do not know how much you will really get but it is a honest business model.

I would not continue to ask for money anyway if I were you. It does not make a good impression to the others.

There is more than one that has problems (expecially if they are older and are sick). You hear it now and then but noone is asking others for money.

Take the positive from the discussions, the tips you got and improve the engine and your skills. Take it as challenge and not as personal insult. I can understand that it is hard when you are convinced that you have done a good job and someone else let you land hard but you should not take it as attack. Seperate the advices and tips from the heated and sarcastic discussion.

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@Resle
PM

@OlafS25
I understand.

Regards,
AmiDARK

@OlafS25

Quote:

wanting money for a closed software is really new to me

it happens all the time, especially in os4 scene. well, nothing wrong with donating to closed source, especially as long as it is voluntary and is granting results in return.

what annoys me here is that amidark asked for donation on aros forum, even though there is no aros version of his software and as it occurred he looked for every excuse not to take advices how to try to get aros to run properly on his current hardware, which hardly suggests an intention to provide and test a port for that platform.

@amidark

if this is all so annoying, then why dont you give us a break with your engine at least till you have something to show off.

@wawa

OWB was MorphOS only and the bounty was only for openning sources but of course there are certainly light-years between OWB and the engine in its current state. So the engine should be perfectly running on at least one platform before asking for money.

@OlafS25

That was not the premise of the bounty tho. Wether or not that should have been the case is another discussion.

What rubbed most people the wrong way EVENTUALLY was the inability to accept feedback

@wawa

Wait! Call me a geek but i read everyday every damn Amiga forum and "my" impression was:

1. Amidark's intention was to sell it..
2. Some people (OS4 users) suggested to start a bounty.
3... more and more people pushed him in that direction..
-> to get money from other camps they suggested to use p2p (AROS, MOS)
Since we are talking about sources this is no bad/evil move at all.
4. There result was the Amidark bounty
5... it seemed that the bounty would fail
6. Hans started a promo campaign and some users jumped on the hype
7. The bounty reached the defined sum
8. The source showed it is no finished product.

well.. for me this is a sort of group-dynamic disaster.
The forum members pushed him into this situation.. he maybe hoped to reach it in a quick way.

At the beginning he was likely really in trouble and hoped to sell it
In that case "selling" would mean losing control and on the other side the need to work further..

Time gone by and maybe he's interest in keeping control came back.

Whatever.. if this group dynamic shit didn't happen, we would not have this drama here.

Now on the other hand.. the last failure was to reject from the bounty.
I for my very own part would have bought it but as time is gone buy I started other project which costs money. Money is not endless. So if, than I would consider buying the sources in 2016. This year my budget is planned already.

My intention was to buy and if needed pay further development. This would have matched to my longtime-before-i-bite dust- bring-out-a-gaming-system- project - right - after-planting-a-tree.

Call it stupid. It is my hobby.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 21-Feb-2015 at 11:00 AM.

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@Overflow



I think the main problem of the bounty was that it promised much more than the engine (right now) could deliver. I assume that happened because Amidark was wrong about the actual state and wrote that in the bounty. If it would have been more realistic there noone would have had the right to moan and propably most donators would still have donated.

But after the heated and personal discussions and all the harsh words it is not the right time to ask for money. Better Amidark continues with it and asks for money later.

And of course he must take critic less personal even though I still think Daytona was too sarcastic too. He will of course say just a reaction to what Amidark answered but a "professional" should stay professional and not personal/sarcastic.

@phoenixkonsole

Good summary.

I wasnt planning on taking my donation from bounty back until Amidark declared it failed (due to dropping below threshold).

A perfect source was never the premise of the bounty, but the retraction of the largest contribution came after many pages of back and forth of ....

That aside; you have to ask yourself if Daytona is the reason the biggest donator lost confidence. ( retorical question....)
Indeed, I think the state of the engine had/has nothing to do with vote of confidence, rather how one deal with feedback.

Last edited by Overflow on 21-Feb-2015 at 11:17 AM.

@AmiDARK

I see absolutely no reason why what you wrote me in a PM shouldn't be written in public. If you decide to do so, I will reply to you, otherwise there's no point in further discussing this matter.

The defensive and abusive attitude about bug reports is very prevalent in the Amiga community, I don't notice this in other similar communities. If someone finds a bug in one of my programs, I'm grateful to them for finding it, and I fix it immediately. The only other ways of finding bugs is code review and exhaustive testing. (Both of which I do, but they certainly aren't much fun, they are only done in the interest of improving the quality.) Why would you not want to take pride in your work and make it the best possible? Then it gets more users etc...there must be a certain level of quality in the code for this to work though. Users in 2015, even on Amigas, are accustomed to software that works correctly.

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Last edited by Minuous on 21-Feb-2015 at 11:26 AM.

@Overflow
Still... if people took money away... the bounty could have just been rebooted.

I am also one of the cholerically sort of people and written words can be understood much more harsh than spoken words (it is based on personal mood and believing of the reader).. it would have been better to discuss this behind the scenes and sum it up for the public.

If you hit someone's ego (really obvious when you talk about his work) you get often quick and improvident reactions. (wow I am talking about myself here : ) )

Whatever..
Shit happened.

Earth is still rotating, AmiDark has now input and we know that Daytona and Bszili are good coders able to deal with every code you throw at them : p.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 21-Feb-2015 at 11:28 AM.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX