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KimmoK 
FreescaleNews
Posted on 2-Mar-2015 12:05:29
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

NXP Semiconductors said on Sunday that it would buy a smaller peer Freescale Semiconductor.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/02/business/chip-makers-will-merge-in-deal-worth-11-8-billion.html?referrer=&_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/02/business/dealbook/semiconductor-giants-said-to-be-near-a-merger.html?ref=topics

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/01/us-nxp-semicondtrs-freescale-m-a-exclusi-idUSKBN0LX1RU20150301

Nothing on Freescale pages yet ... ?

Update, Freescale confirmed the intent of merger:
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/free_scale/usn/usnews-story.aspx?newsid=28737&cid=896

Last edited by KimmoK on 03-Mar-2015 at 07:59 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 02-Mar-2015 at 12:07 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 02-Mar-2015 at 12:07 PM.

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bennymee 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 2-Mar-2015 12:31:54
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 695
From: Netherlands

@KimmoK

It was in the Dutch news, together they become one of the 8th largest chip manufacturers in the world.

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Metalheart 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 2-Mar-2015 12:57:02
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@KimmoK

Isnt NXP the semiconductor wing of Philips ?

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matthey 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 2-Mar-2015 15:58:52
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1852
From: Kansas

Quote:

Metalheart wrote:
Isnt NXP the semiconductor wing of Philips ?


They were a division of Phillips as Freescale was once a division of Motorola.

It looks like a done deal. Now to save costs to pay for the deal, we start by laying off duplicate personel, especially in management and underperforming divisions. Then we look to consolidate the product ranges to reduce costs. NXP is big in ARM, ARM, ARM, ARM and it has a TM3260 VLIW CPU in a media SoC. Here is their list of microcontrollers with nothing but ARM is sight:

http://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers/

Freescale processors are ARM, PPC and miscellaneous. NXP is into mobile/smart phones and portable consumer devices so it will use ARMv8 for 64 bit and there is no need to have the similar 64 bit PPC. PPC has got to go.

Last edited by matthey on 02-Mar-2015 at 03:59 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 2-Mar-2015 16:41:09
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6279
From: Unknown

@matthey

they have announced to save 500 Mio. Dollar by the merger. You can do that by reducing people and by doing development together instead both doing it themselves. Their only processors are ARM so invest in PPC does not make any sense. It will propably be the beginning of the end of PPC processors by Freescale.

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cdimauro 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 2-Mar-2015 17:18:40
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3325
From: Germany

It doesn't change the overall status, since the PowerPC platform is already died. Freescale had no new PowerPC micro-architectures in her roadmap (only the lifting of the existing ones), so the doom is quite well defined and will follow the same of 68Ks chips.

This move may only accelerate the traced path.

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matthey 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 2-Mar-2015 22:05:08
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1852
From: Kansas

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
they have announced to save 500 Mio. Dollar by the merger. You can do that by reducing people and by doing development together instead both doing it themselves. Their only processors are ARM so invest in PPC does not make any sense. It will propably be the beginning of the end of PPC processors by Freescale.


I think the beginning of the end has already begun for PPC. We'll see if the production longevity promises made by Freescale hold up under new managment aggressively trying to cut costs.

There is always IBM for POWER/PPC. I can see the new announcement now.

Get your new Amiga with Power 8 today! Only $10,000, case not included. SMP and 64 bit support expected soon.

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:
It doesn't change the overall status, since the PowerPC platform is already died. Freescale had no new PowerPC micro-architectures in her roadmap (only the lifting of the existing ones), so the doom is quite well defined and will follow the same of 68Ks chips.

This move may only accelerate the traced path.


Yes, I agree. The deal is only likely to accelerate the abandonment of PPC. The writing is on the wall that Hyperion keeps walking into. Hyperion is still SMP on PPC or bust, or should we say SMP on PPC and bust :D.

For all the years that some PPC Amiga users have looked down on us left behind and abandoned 68k Amiga users, I now feel the 68k Amiga has more of a future than the PPC Amiga. We can make our own 68k FPGA processors where SMP is easier to implement. We can make 68k+AGA Amigas cheap enough to sell to the masses. We control our own destiny where PPC is on a sinking ship they considered unsinkable so the lifeboats weren't an important consideration. It looks like Hyperion will go down with the ship and maybe A-Eon in their rescue attempt too, if they don't find the little 68k Amiga rescue boats quickly.

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BigD 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 2-Mar-2015 22:17:21
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7212
From: UK

@matthey

Quote:
Yes, I agree. The deal is only likely to accelerate the abandonment of PPC. The writing is on the wall that Hyperion keeps walking into. Hyperion is still SMP on PPC or bust, or should we say SMP on PPC and bust :D.


SMP on a PPC AmigaOne with AmigaOS support built in with real world performance advantages would be a great way to finish off the AmigaOS 4.x years! If AmigaOS then starts a new chapter under a different owner, CPU type or gets put out to pasture due to world domination of RISC OS on the Raspberry Pi 2 at least Hyperion/A-EON can say they did it their way!

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agami 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 4:37:31
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1507
From: Melbourne, Australia

@cdimauro

Quote:
...the doom is quite well defined and will follow the same of 68Ks chips.


What?!?!

68k chips are doomed?!

Nooooooooooooooooo

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BigGun 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 6:55:52
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Aug-2005
Posts: 438
From: Germany (Black Forest)

Ok Freescale was sold.
One of the bigger PPC manufacturer might now be gone.

But what impact does this has on PPC Amiga?
The last Neo-Amiga usings PPC chips from Freescale where the
AMIGA-ONE- XE G4, Pegasos 2 - G4, and the EFIKA with the 5200B

The SAM uses CPUs from AMCC.
So whether Freescale is gone or not should make no difference to SAM production.

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Minuous 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 7:53:21
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Oct-2004
Posts: 319
From: Unknown

@Metalheart

>Isn't NXP the semiconductor wing of Philips?

Yes, it's a bit convoluted but basically they are/were Signetics.

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KimmoK 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 7:54:50
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

I would not rise any new worry about the merge of those two companies. To me it seemed that Freescale was doing ok. Their Qoriq series of Power Architecture chips have been selling very well. Only the delays hint that there is lack of resources & funding on PPC department.

As the NXP has ARM competence already inhouse (does it not?), it does not directly mean Freescale would drop PPC. As a matter of fact it could mean a fusion of ARM development groups of the two companies while PPC team would continue as planned or speed up to keep ahead of ARM in Telecoms.

There has been Power Architecture Next Generation Core in Freescale roadmap of y2013.
In that roadmap it was hinted that we get more info about the NGC during 2015. If the world does not see updated roadmap about Freescale PPC Architecture cores during this year, then it might become valid to assume that they will ramp down Power Architecture chip sales within 10 years.

But I rather wait & see, than speculate further.

So far AOS4+ should have 10 years to continue with PPC.

**********************
I have not yet seen Freescale plan to deliver ARM based chip that matches e6500 based chips of their high end.

Last edited by KimmoK on 03-Mar-2015 at 08:02 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 03-Mar-2015 at 07:56 AM.

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BigGun 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 8:59:45
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Aug-2005
Posts: 438
From: Germany (Black Forest)

@KimmoK

Quote:
There has been Power Architecture Next Generation Core in Freescale roadmap of y2013. In that roadmap it was hinted that we get more info about the NGC during 2015


According to Freescales roadmaps the 800 MHz Coldfire V6 will come out soon too.

Freescale roadmap

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Kronos 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 10:32:35
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2402
From: Unknown

@BigGun

Right, but the next one (X5000) will again be Freescale......

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TRIPOS 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 11:34:25
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1204
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote:
I would not rise any new worry about the merge of those two companies. To me it seemed that Freescale was doing ok.


Freescale hasn't been doing OK for a long while, for several years now they have been under heavy financial pressure.

Quote:
Their Qoriq series of Power Architecture chips have been selling very well.


Far from good enough. It's not PPC that brings revenue to Freescale.

Quote:
Only the delays hint that there is lack of resources & funding on PPC department.


"Only"?!



Quote:
As the NXP has ARM competence already inhouse (does it not?), it does not directly mean Freescale would drop PPC. As a matter of fact it could mean a fusion of ARM development groups of the two companies while PPC team would continue as planned or speed up to keep ahead of ARM in Telecoms.


Competent people are on this area are not tied to specific platforms. Take Jim Keller for example, he was one of the people responsible for the Alpha, AMD's K7 and Opteron and he was senior at PASemi when they did the PA6T used in the X1000. Then Apple bought PA Semi and he is most certainly behind the completely in-house custom designed Cyclone architecture used in Apples A7 ARM processor used in iPhone 5s/iPad Air, which is the first ARM CPU who was really designed as a true desktop CPU (comparable to Intel's Core i7) but packaged and clocked for mobiles. Now he is at AMD where he is Chief CPU Architect​ and leading an ARM development team designing the "K12" CPU, another completely in-house custom design truly aimed for performance, this will come in 2016 and will probably be used in a future CPU to replace the current impressive multi-core Cortex A57 CPU's in AMD's Skybridge framework, where x86 and ARM CPU's are pin-compatible(!!). So these kind of guys aren't tied to any particular ISA or architecture. Only Amigans are. :-/

Quote:
There has been Power Architecture Next Generation Core in Freescale roadmap of y2013.


If you have been following Freescale for a decade or so, you would know that they tend to make roadmaps for everything, but more often than not are they canceled or fundamentally changed somewhere down the road.

There has been many rumors from years back from trustworthy sources inside Freescale that they would be dropping PPC and focus on ARM. I even think I recall some middle management guy say so in public. But then another middle management guy contradicted him. But one thing is for sure, the PPC is more of a burden than a cash cow for Freescale. They have been under pressure for a very long time and they have needed to do something for a very long time. I'd say that lack of decisive management has now forced the company to be swallowed by someone else.

PPC has survived mostly because of substantial inertia in some big and old industries where existing toolchains and S/W asked for more of the same. Not because of PPC being good, but because changing would be costly and/or time consuming. But ARM has during the last years positioned suitable custom CPU's at almost every PPC stronghold, be them Automotive or Internet Infrastructure, or any embedded application you could think of.

There are 2 CPU platforms really, x86 and ARM.

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KimmoK 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 12:41:43
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@TRIPOS

>PPC is more of a burden than a cash cow for Freescale

Surpricing, if it is a burden, when at least in 2012, PPC dominated in Telecom industry and that is big business.
I know that for example in 2013, most Nokia Basestation variants in production used PPC while the rest used MIPS. Lately it seems MIPS might be disappearing, so, also Nokia might go for ARM if not back to 100% PPC.
But sure, a lot can happen in a few years.

UPDATE:
Silently and secretly storing this link here:
QorIQ P1022 Processor + Quick Boot + H.264 Software Codec - Demo
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/video_vault/videoSummary.sp?code=FTF11ENA_665_VID
(old, incompatible and obsolete e500 core but still capable)

Last edited by KimmoK on 30-Mar-2015 at 09:53 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 22:32:16
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3325
From: Germany

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:

For all the years that some PPC Amiga users have looked down on us left behind and abandoned 68k Amiga users, I now feel the 68k Amiga has more of a future than the PPC Amiga. We can make our own 68k FPGA processors where SMP is easier to implement. We can make 68k+AGA Amigas cheap enough to sell to the masses. We control our own destiny where PPC is on a sinking ship they considered unsinkable so the lifeboats weren't an important consideration. It looks like Hyperion will go down with the ship and maybe A-Eon in their rescue attempt too, if they don't find the little 68k Amiga rescue boats quickly.

In principle a PowerPC FPGA project can be created as well, but I wouldn't be interesting as a 68K one which can be paired with an Amiga-like chipset. A lot of software is available for 68Ks, and a renewed platform will revitalize for sure this segment.

However with the fall of PowerPCs, the focus will be also redirected to other architectures. The MorphOS team has already (informally) talked of an x64 porting. AROS is already on the x64 path, and a recent bounty is pushing hard on this direction. The future of OS4 in uncertain today with Hyperion's bankrupt, and anyway is signed by the PowerPC demise.

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote:
I would not rise any new worry about the merge of those two companies. To me it seemed that Freescale was doing ok. Their Qoriq series of Power Architecture chips have been selling very well. Only the delays hint that there is lack of resources & funding on PPC department.

So, what do you expect from a company which doesn't fund the PowerPC department? A new micro-architecture? It's clearly not the case.
Quote:
As the NXP has ARM competence already inhouse (does it not?), it does not directly mean Freescale would drop PPC. As a matter of fact it could mean a fusion of ARM development groups of the two companies while PPC team would continue as planned or speed up to keep ahead of ARM in Telecoms.

And the plan is to maintain the PowerPC line exactly like the existing 68K line: some cosmetic changes to the SoCs supporting new peripherals (e.g. USB3, SATA-3, PCI-Express 3, DDR4, etc.).
Quote:
There has been Power Architecture Next Generation Core in Freescale roadmap of y2013.
In that roadmap it was hinted that we get more info about the NGC during 2015. If the world does not see updated roadmap about Freescale PPC Architecture cores during this year, then it might become valid to assume that they will ramp down Power Architecture chip sales within 10 years.

So, is there any new micro-architecture from this roadmap?
Quote:
But I rather wait & see, than speculate further.

So far AOS4+ should have 10 years to continue with PPC.

Yes, it can, but with the same PowerPC line. And in 10 years you can image how far the rest of IT will go...
Quote:
I have not yet seen Freescale plan to deliver ARM based chip that matches e6500 based chips of their high end.

The first things that I've found:

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1261962
http://linuxgizmos.com/freescale-unveils-first-arm-based-qoriq-socs/
http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/10/22/freescale-unveils-qoriq-ls1043a-quad-core-arm-cortex-a53-communication-processor-for-fanless-networking-equipment/

"Resistance is futile..."

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote:
@TRIPOS

>PPC is more of a burden than a cash cow for Freescale

Surpricing, if it is a burden, when at least in 2012, PPC dominated in Telecom industry and that is big business.
I know that for example in 2013, most Nokia Basestation variants in production used PPC while the rest used MIPS. Lately it seems MIPS might be disappearing, so, also Nokia might go for ARM if not back to 100% PPC.
But sure, a lot can happen in a few years.

That's the past. Prepare for the future, which is different.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 22:57:48
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12667
From: Norway

@cdimauro

If PPC disappear, we should make new PPC soft cores we can put in FPGA's what do you think

They way faster and better anyway then what Freescale can make don't you think





















or maybe not :-/

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Mar-2015 at 10:58 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Mar-2015 at 10:57 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 23:06:42
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3325
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga: I don't think that a PowerPC FPGA design can beat the currently available processor of this family. The G5 is still the top performer, at least on single core/thread, and I really doubt that an FPGA can reach or even surpass it.

For the 68Ks it's quite different, since Motorola killed the family with the 68060, so there's yet A LOT that can be done to get much better and performer cores, even using FPGAs (and ASICs are an option too).

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: FreescaleNews
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 23:10:07
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12667
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Quote:
The future of OS4 in uncertain


There are some indications that some of developers might go x64 in the future, but it not going to happen while the current redesign of ExecSG kernel or x-kernel are worked on. Clearly, they do not have the resources to jump ship while making major OS and Kernel changes. So this is some thing, I think has to done after.

If they get there and how they get there is another issue.
I do not think the company has decided yet, they have time to think about it for some time to come.

On the other hand, this should not stop people from buying PPC as long as they can, we do not know when and how long it is going to take, as we know hobby operating systems take time to develop with limited numbers of customers and income and developers.

I think if the production of PPC was stopped tomorrow, there will be PPC chips to buy that is in some storage for a while, I don't think Freescale stop production that quick, there customers will need some time to adapt, maybe a year or more.

I think Freescale will do what they can to get these customers to convert to ARM, or else they might decide x64 is better, and Freescale end up losing customers.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Mar-2015 at 11:38 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Mar-2015 at 11:21 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Mar-2015 at 11:18 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Mar-2015 at 11:14 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Mar-2015 at 11:12 PM.

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