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broadblues 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 15:41:43
#41 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4396
From: Portsmouth England

@cgutjahr

I agree, simply importing open doc formats is meaningless, if you aren't importing them into an engine capable of using them.

Exporting is more feasable, but then you are implicitly limited to the things that can be saved in them. This suppresses originality.

A program that does something useful is much more of use than a program that falls short of an attempted compatabilty.

And extracting the useful data from a docx / odt can be done with an arexx script as alll that's going to be useful is the raw text and images, and maybe a hint of where to put them.

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OlafS25 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 15:55:01
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5540
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

I think Trevor said anything about it compiles and is now "bugfixing" years ago so he propably thought of that

@cgutjahr

I do not think that FW is that bad, there were some acquisitions lately who are more outdated than Final Writer. And you certainly know the rule that people only use 5% of Word so if you manage to update Final Writer to these 5% it is at least potential usable (along with new printer drivers). Of course it will not beat MS Word or LibreOffice Writer but I do not think that this would be necessary in our case. Just my 2 cents to this.

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number6 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:00:29
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10689
From: In the village

@OlafS25

Quote:
I think Trevor said anything about it compiles and is now "bugfixing" years ago so he propably thought of that


More likely the allusion to a time element:

Here

Semantics have long plagued all things Amiga.
"I'll bet you won't have to wait...." gets interpreted as being "we'll have this in less than..."

In the above case, "it should be possible to get a first binary" gets interpreted into an impending release.

Exact wording and meaning does count.

#6

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cgutjahr 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:04:09
#44 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 882
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Quote:

and, yes, i'd use it for actual work. in fact i do use my amiga for actual work.

FW already works on OS4, so I take it you're already using it?

If not, it might have been a good idea to contribute to this thread - instead of worrying about my snark - by listing things you want to have implemented so you can actually use it.

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ExiE 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:04:41
#45 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

@broadblues
Quote:
Exporting is more feasable, but then you are implicitly limited to the things that can be saved in them. This suppresses originality. A program that does something useful is much more of use than a program that falls short of an attempted compatabilty. And extracting the useful data from a docx / odt can be done with an arexx script as alll that's going to be useful is the raw text and images, and maybe a hint of where to put them.

We don't really need both formats, one would be enough for now. It is not just about export. Using old binary formats as default makes the preserving of documents hard. And XML based formats are specially designed to not limit programmers that way you talk about.
I agree that supporting all the features for import is not possible for now, but we have to start somewhere.
These formats are simply standards and we are not Apple to ignore them... (i know it is cheap but true)

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BSzili 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:11:37
#46 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Does the official press release from A-Eon counts?
http://www.a-eon.com/PDF/News_Release_Software_Content.pdf

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eliyahu 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:11:41
#47 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1799
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@cgutjahr
Quote:
FW already works on OS4, so I take it you're already using it?

If not, it might have been a good idea to contribute to this thread - instead of worrying about my snark - by listing things you want to have implemented so you can actually use it.

i do use it, thank you. that's why i'd like an AOS4 version, specifically to adopt the native font engine and clean up the GUI. i'll reserve judgement until i see development commence. term just wanted to know what platforms people would prefer and what they were willing to pay. i fail to see how that deserved the tenor you used in your post.

-- eliyahu

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eliyahu 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:12:35
#48 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1799
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@BSzili

it didn't suggest anything 'being around the corner' nor did it offer a timeframe for release.

-- eliyahu

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ExiE 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:13:11
#49 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

@OlafS25
Quote:
I do not think that FW is that bad, there were some acquisitions lately who are more outdated than Final Writer. And you certainly know the rule that people only use 5% of Word so if you manage to update Final Writer to these 5% it is at least potential usable (along with new printer drivers). Of course it will not beat MS Word or LibreOffice Writer but I do not think that this would be necessary in our case. Just my 2 cents to this.


Exactly. Check screenshots of new Word for Windows 10. Only basic functions, easy to understand interface, but i guess users will like it and use more than big office with ribbon crap.

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BSzili 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:15:24
#50 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Actually you are right, I always forget this is amigaland

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broadblues 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:19:23
#51 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4396
From: Portsmouth England

@OlafS25

Quote:

that people only use 5% of Word


Problem is everybody uses a different 5%

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ExiE 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:20:19
#52 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

@cgutjahr
Quote:
And I'm shocked that nobody's mentioned LibreOffice yet. It's right around the corner, I'm told.

LibreOffice is quite a hungry baby. I expect it to be quite slow on lowend machines.
When we speak about FW, it means also 68k version...

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OlafS25 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:20:34
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5540
From: Unknown

@BSzili

thanx

that was what I remembered

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OlafS25 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:21:22
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5540
From: Unknown

@broadblues

LOL

the same as with marketing, 50% is wasted but you do not know which one

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OlafS25 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:24:00
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5540
From: Unknown

@ExiE

I do not think that most users even use Word on the surface

So I think a clean small word processor still would have some use

It needs good and working font management, printing, PDF-Export (something I use all the time). Importing of modern formats would be nice but even when you use the same software (different versions) you get in trouble so it is too much to expect. Make it full 24bit compatible (if not yet). Then I think people would be happy already.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 16-Mar-2015 at 04:27 PM.

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number6 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:26:45
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10689
From: In the village

@BSzili

Again semantics.

Quote:
the programme is awaiting final debugging


which again would indicate imminent release to some.

But a month later:

Quote:
We took the viewpoint that the time wasted by manually debugging something like LibreOffice could be put to getting new GDB ported.


Source

Indicating a requirement before debugging could efficiently begin, no?

#6

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OlafS25 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:29:14
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5540
From: Unknown

@number6

"something like" is not a clear communication either

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cgutjahr 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:29:16
#58 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 882
From: Unknown

@broadblues

Quote:

Exporting is more feasable, but then you are implicitly limited to the things that can be saved in them. This suppresses originality.

Heh, interesting point. Though I can't think of anything original that couldn't be done with current formats (I've seen PDFs with embedded Flash objects...), unless you're thinking way out of the box?

Also, if I have to choose between compatibility and originality - I'll always choose compatibility, at least if you're talking file formats. I had to painfully recreate/convert all of my documents and spreadsheets two or three times already, I'll never use anything but open formats in the future.

@OlafS25_

Quote:

I do not think that FW is that bad, there were some acquisitions lately who are more outdated than Final Writer

It urgently needs to be compatible with something - this is 2015. The problem is that making it compatible would equal a complete rewrite - and that's where the whole idea of updating FW falls apart.

Quote:

And you certainly know the rule that people only use 5% of Word so if you manage to update Final Writer to these 5% it is at least potential usable

I was perfectly happy with WW7 until 2010, features are not the problem. The problem is that the vast majority of users needs compatibility - just check the requests made in this very thread.

So the Amiga scene could use its limited resources to...

(a) burn some money on updating FW, then start another word processor project that is going to offer some compatibility with the modern world and burn even more money on that

or

(b) skip the FW step and immediately try to come up with a modern solution

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cgutjahr 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:32:47
#59 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 882
From: Unknown

Guys, I just mentioned LibreOffice because making jokes about Timberwolf is no fun anymore now that even the diehards use the terms "scam" and "crap" to describe it.

I apologise for misinterpreting the AmiWest 2013 announcement that hiring betatesters for LibreOffice would begin "next month".

Let's get back to topic please, I'll stick with Timberwolf jokes in the future.

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BSzili 
Re: Final Writer-Feedback required about future development
Posted on 16-Mar-2015 16:39:23
#60 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@number6

Okay, okay, I get it already. I still find it funny how you left out the first part of the press release:
Quote:
The porting is now complete and the programme is awaiting final debugging

How would anyone interpret this as "right around the corner" is a mystery.

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