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      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
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hth313 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Jul-2019 15:48:41
#1841 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 152
From: Delta, Canada

@kolla

Cross compiling is in general not a source of errors due to mis-matched endian. I have implemented such tools and there are surprisingly few places the endian matters internally (if done right).

Your example actually shows it. The cross compiler (for 68k) got the same result as the native compiler (for ARM), which means that big endian was the common cause here for that application (not using a cross compiler).

That little endian is more common today is probably due to the popularity of x86 and other architectures from Intel.

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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 18-Jul-2019 19:09:25
#1842 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1323
From: Trondheim, Norway

@hth313

My problem was openssl configure assuming little-endian despite building for m68k, because it used a very simple test that was performed "natively", and then found the platform to be x86 and hence little-endian. For ARM it was as simple as presuming all ARM is little-endian.

Yeah, the problem is not so much compiling as it is preventing optimistic build scripts from doing silly mistakes. But that can be tricky enough.

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Hypex 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 19-Jul-2019 16:43:49
#1843 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9639
From: Greensborough, Australia

@hth313

Quote:
That little endian is more common today is probably due to the popularity of x86 and other architectures from Intel.


I tend to agree. There are things like the R5G6B5 format which it are now little endian only on video cards despite splitting the bytes up into little endian not being logical. I even read talk of how network structures should be updated to be only in little endian. But that's just silly, IPv4 is four bytes. not a long word;so forcing it to a backwards endian is the wrong way about it. It ofcourse can be accessed as a whole 32-bit number and reading/writing it on any endian will produce the same result. And x86 can now read/write in big endian for a while so there's no excuse except for compilers that are still playing catch up. Since data format differs between CPU I thought they would have fixed that support years ago.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Jul-2019 8:40:41
#1844 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1605
From: Norway

Vampire 4 Standalone bring-up. AmiQuake2 (AGA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HsHaXy2pqY

Quote:

Here is GOLD2.12 Release Candidate 1 APOLLO Core Update for the Vampire V600 / V500 V2(+).

You need a USB Blaster to load Release Candidate Core on the Vampire.

The Apollo-Team is not liable for any problem, failures or data loss. Please note that you will do the update on your own personal risk.

New vampiregfx.card is needed, copy it to LIBS:Picasso96/ -folder

[GOLD2.12RC1] (20.07.2019)
* New 15/16bits RTG modes (R5G5B5PC, B8G8R8A8)
* HW mouse improvements (sprite area size, x/y-position coords)
* New minimal boot pic with melody
* SLOW CPU when PC in chipmem & rangermem (auto Turtle, select "ExpChip" with WHDLoad)
* Improved Turtle Mode compatibility
* Enabled faster 32bit write for the IDE
* Improved rebooting, when using a MAPROM
* Updated EmuTOS ROM to 0.9.11 release
* VampireSupport 40.30

This link will be removed for the next Release Candidate or the final public version. Please give us feedback and bug reports!


http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=21947

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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 5-Aug-2019 17:20:45
#1845 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1323
From: Trondheim, Norway

Looks like Gunnar stirred some counter productive drama again, and shunned off bebbo... so bye bye any hopes for gcc support?

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Lou 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 5-Aug-2019 19:03:02
#1846 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3997
From: Rhode Island

@kolla



At this point - being a "Removed User" is a badge of honor!

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hth313 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 5-Aug-2019 19:47:58
#1847 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 152
From: Delta, Canada

@kolla

So a commercial hardware developer tried to push an open source compiler developer into doing a lot of things? And in the end, the open source developer left and now they need to find someone else to do the work (DIY)?

Being a compiler developer myself, I can relate. The worst kind of "customer" is the one that understands a lot (especially at the lowest level) but not much about how compilers are actually made. You end up looking at certain details and fail to understand the compromises that go into it. Simply put, you are just not going to get it perfect in every situation, no matter how hard you try.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 6-Aug-2019 6:56:35
#1848 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1605
From: Norway

@hth313

I can see how a knowledgable customer can be the most hassle, but I dont quite understand how information overload can be a problem. Getting real feedback have to be more valuable than posts from people like me saying "Great work!!" and thats it.

I can see how it becomes just too much to deal with, especially since Gunnar came back with feedback unusually quick, which can feel quite demanding, but there is/was nothing stopping Bebbo from saying "ok, thanks for feedback, but I just dont have time to keep up with this, so continue your brainstorming, and I will do work as I find the time".

Unless I miss some inpolite comments from Gunnar or others.

And I can see why Gunnar was so active. There are several PC bound developers that are active on the Apollo forum, that has said that they wont take the time to learn ASM indepth, just to develop on a obscure chipset. So GCC would be very helpful in that regard.

So its a pity it ended like this.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Aug-2019 18:12:31
#1849 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1605
From: Norway

For the musical inclined Amigan

Amiga Vampire, Roland SC-55 MK2 and Horny MIDI Sequencer

Machine:
Amiga 2000
Vampire 500 V2+
Core, Gold 2.12, x11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8X1BHdahYc&feature=youtu.be

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=5¬e=22338&z=uLr52i

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OneTimer1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Aug-2019 21:45:05
#1850 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 508
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
... bye any hopes for gcc support?


Maybe that's not as bad as it seems, so they will be forced to be more 68k compatible.

As a potential customer I prefer 68k compatibility over fancy ISA enhancements that will not be supported by existing software.

The main goal of 68k compatible hardware is 68k compatibility. The idea of developers coming back to the Amiga and do a recompile of their old software didn't work for PPC, it won't work for the Apollo either, after all this years.

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golem 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 10-Aug-2019 21:59:33
#1851 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2004
Posts: 31
From: Nottingham, UK

@Overflow
Nice vid there. Love the Sultans of Swing. I have a Roland XP-10 which is almost a Soundcanvas with attached keyboard. I use Bars and Pipes sometimes to play GM files but Horny looks very nice so I am tempted to download it.

_________________
1200 desktop Blizzard 1260 with 2Gb Jaz SCSI drive, 32Mb, OS3.9 BB2
1200 desktop Blizzard 1230, 32Mb, OS3.1
Trusty 1.3 A500 underneath the TV with SCART

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WOSPUPOS4 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Aug-2019 21:54:08
#1852 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Posts: 218
From: Unknown

Quote:

OneTimer1 wrote:
@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
... bye any hopes for gcc support?


Maybe that's not as bad as it seems, so they will be forced to be more 68k compatible.

As a potential customer I prefer 68k compatibility over fancy ISA enhancements that will not be supported by existing software.

The main goal of 68k compatible hardware is 68k compatibility. The idea of developers coming back to the Amiga and do a recompile of their old software didn't work for PPC, it won't work for the Apollo either, after all this years.


Most of the discussed (all?) had benefits for both real 040 and 060 CPU also.
68080 is a combo of 060 and 040 but with added modern CPU tech like instruction bonding and fusing on top of being super scalar like the 060.
Also MUCH bigger caches than both these help.

Last edited by WOSPUPOS4 on 11-Aug-2019 at 09:55 PM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Aug-2019 22:24:14
#1853 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 508
From: Unknown

@WOSPUPOS4

Quote:


68080 is a ...


Publicity stunt with a Performance/Clock ratio below the 68060.

Maybe this will change with the bigger FPGA on VampireV4.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 11-Aug-2019 at 10:37 PM.

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ferrels 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Aug-2019 22:57:40
#1854 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 825
From: Arizona

@OneTimer1

Quote:
68080 is a ... Publicity stunt with a Performance/Clock ratio below the 68060. Maybe this will change with the bigger FPGA on VampireV4.


So when do you plan to open a fab plant to re-produce the 68060 and the accelerator cards that would use them? Oh, that's right....never mind, you only produce trolling comments, not hardware.

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OneTimer1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 13-Aug-2019 15:48:17
#1855 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 508
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:


So when do you plan to open a fab plant to re-produce the 68060 and the accelerator cards that would use them? Oh, that's right.....


That's right ?

You don't even know what I'm thinking about it.

68k is dead and the best and cheapest replacement for a 68060 is UAE.

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bhabbott 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 1:27:13
#1856 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 32
From: Unknown

Quote:

OneTimer1 wrote:

68k is dead and the best and cheapest replacement for a 68060 is UAE.
My 68k's aren't dead, they're still working fine.

To run UAE faster than a Vampire I would have to buy a new PC, and that certainly isn't the cheapest or best solution for me.

Can a PC fit inside my A600? No. Can it read my Amiga floppy disks, display on my 1084 monitor, work with my Amiga mouse, joystick, external floppy drive? No. Can UAE on a PC access the parallel port to control my EPROM programmer or a C64 disk drive etc.? No. Can I turn on a PC and have UAE up and running in less than 6 seconds, while showing that lovely Vampire boot pic? No.

But even if it could do all that, it would still be a PC running a software emulation. Even if the display, keyboard, mouse and general operation felt exactly like a real Amiga, it still wouldn't be the best. Because I would know that it is just a simulation - like being in The Matrix and knowing that it's all an illusion, created by machines to keep you placated while they suck the life force out of your body.

The Vampire is the best we have for improving the performance our real Amigas with real hardware. If this technology had been available to us in the 90's we would have jumped on it, and perhaps avoided the mess with PPC etc. Amiga is finally getting back on the right path and becoming what it should have been!

Last edited by bhabbott on 14-Aug-2019 at 01:27 AM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 6:01:57
#1857 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 151
From: Unknown

@bhabbott

Vampire still has not MMU, 3D and still is slower than slowest ppc accelerators for amiga.
Still there are good reasons to use ppc.
PPC Amiga is real Amiga, and better Amiga than AGA crap made by Commodore .

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 14-Aug-2019 at 06:12 AM.

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BigD 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 8:23:14
#1858 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5040
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

While 3D performance etc has improved there are few software reasons to "upgrade' to PPC. A-EON know this but their attempts at updating classic software is progressing very slowly.

If you just want retro fun (including decent AGA programs and games) then Vampire seems less hassle and a seamless addition to the classic community. Plus, I trust the Standalone and A1200 versions will be ready this year. I have no idea when the Tabor will be released!

Last edited by BigD on 14-Aug-2019 at 08:25 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 14-Aug-2019 at 08:24 AM.

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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ppcamiga1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 8:33:19
#1859 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 151
From: Unknown

@BigD

Vampire still has not 3D. Everything is done by cpu.

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bhabbott 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 14-Aug-2019 9:49:38
#1860 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 32
From: Unknown

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
@bhabbott

Vampire still has not MMU, 3D and still is slower than slowest ppc accelerators for amiga.
What PPC accelerator can I put in my A600?


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