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      /   Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
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Hans 
Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 9-Sep-2016 6:49:24
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4876
From: New Zealand

Just cross posting this to try to reach as many people as possible...

I'd like to help people take advantage of the new graphics capabilities that Warp3D Nova provides. So far I've written a few tutorials on using Warp3D Nova directly (link).

Now that the OpenGL ES 2 wrapper has been released, I'm wondering if there's interest in learning how to use that. I've created a short survey to get an idea of what people want.

So, if you're interested in learning shader based graphics on AmigaOS, hop over to the survey and give your opinion: link

Hans

_________________
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Lazi 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 9-Sep-2016 7:21:20
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2005
Posts: 634
From: Pomaz, Hungary

@Hans

I love to learn new things, but love to choose to the easy way. Already learned a lot with Hollywood, even something about OpenGL.
Nova could reach a much wider audience if it could be reached along with Hollywood. I don't know what is the better way, a 3rd party Nova/OpenGL ES 2 plugin, or ask Hollywood's author to officially support it.

The current OpenGL support of Hollywood is limited to OpenGL 1.1 by the limits of MiniGL/TinyGL/StormMesa.
An OpenGL ES 2 plugin would make sense because it could elevate 3D support of Hollywood on other platforms too as Linux, Mac and windows, and can add 3D to the Android target as well.

Because it would be an easy way to learn an tinkering with Nova for even less educated/experienced and wannabe programmers it can be of help to debug Nova and excite future development.

Last edited by Lazi on 09-Sep-2016 at 09:28 PM.
Last edited by Lazi on 09-Sep-2016 at 09:27 PM.
Last edited by Lazi on 09-Sep-2016 at 09:26 PM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 10:58:18
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3403
From: Unknown

@Hans

Hi Hans,


i'm interested in learning OpenGL ES 2, so your tutorial are really appreciated.

The only problem is that i have sam440ep with integrated m9 atm, don't know if Warp3D Nova and OpenGL 2 ES is supported.

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Beans 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 15:58:18
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Hans

The wrapper sounds interesting...but I'd be willing to bet that performance issues render it fairly useless.
After all, the current OpenGL support its relying on runs pretty crappy.

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

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Trekiej 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 16:47:38
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 543
From: Unknown

@Hans

Good luck with this, I hope it can be used with all Amiga's and clones.

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John 3:16

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zErec 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 19:50:38
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Dec-2003
Posts: 509
From: Germany

@Beans

Quote:

Beans wrote:
@Hans

The wrapper sounds interesting...but I'd be willing to bet that performance issues render it fairly useless.
After all, the current OpenGL support its relying on runs pretty crappy.


Well your words ("runs pretty crappy") are based on what facts please?

IMHO we should motivate those guys by staying kind. Sure if something doesn't run as expected than drop them a line. It might be a bug or a missing feature. Who knows better than the developers themselves.

But just throwing "bad words" into forums with no facts is a shame my friend.
Maybe I am wrong and you have facts, then deliver!

People often forget when throwing such words that behind such projects threre are single people or in best case a small group of people working on it in there sparetime.
So no multi million $ Company with unbelievable resources!

The Topic is Warp3D Nova and OpenGLES2.x.
The first time in Amiga History we get real SHADER support and even a cool
Wrapper to simplify programming or porting of OpenGLES2.x games and programs.

As you might have noticed our platform is years behind the major platforms regarding
3D support but that's not the point to discuss! Why people loving there Amiga hobby should be happy and thankful is that there are guys like Hans and Daniel (and for sure others) that have delivered a solid 3D Framework in there sparetime (yes they do have a life! Surprised? ) to build on and already work with.
Warp3D Nova and the OpenGLES2 Wrapper are WORK-IN-PROGRESS so performance and feature gains like seen in the 1.29 Release are coming.


Thanks to all Amiga developers keep up the good work!!!!
Cheers z!Erec



_________________
- AmigaX1Ooo with OS4.1FE // CD32/SX32Pro/SX1/CD32Shuttle
- A600-Vampire600 FPGA // A4KT/CSPPC233,144MB,PCI, AOS4.1.6FE
- MACmini 1.5GHz // Pegasos 2 1GHz // Efika
- ATARI Falcon/060/SuperVidel // ATARI Falcon MK X

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Beans 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 20:33:38
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@zErec

R...i...g...h...t, hmm.
And a wrapper is some how going to improve in performance when the underlying software it relies on performs badly.

"bad words", huh?

No, they are opinions. You can judge me and my "bad words" all you want.
But these "works in progress" are not functional yet.
And that is a fact.

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amigakit 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 20:45:29
#8 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2297
From: www.amigakit.com

@Beans / Iggy

Quote:
the underlying software it relies on performs badly


Not sure where you are getting your information from?

The new Warp3D Nova V1.29 in the Enhancer Software v1.1 doesn't perform badly and the recent OpenGL ES 2.0 library has had a significant boost in performance and is also included in the Enhancer Software V1.1

BTW: why do you have multiple accounts here? Is there a login problem from your other account. Please pmail me.

Last edited by amigakit on 10-Sep-2016 at 08:50 PM.

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zErec 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 21:20:16
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Dec-2003
Posts: 509
From: Germany

@Thread

Sorry for going Off-Topic but we need clarification here.

@Beans


1. The OpenGL ES 2 Wrapper and Nova are pretty similar.
Apparently you falsely believe that OGLES2 has something to do or is a wrapper around or sits on top of MiniGL, which is the "current OpenGL support" that "runs pretty crappy".

2. while the first version was lacking quite some features, the situation changed. Yes, "work in progress". There was huge progress and more to come . Real world games are being actively developed using OpenGL ES 2 as we speak.

3. You want to bet? You'd lose:
Current performance of OpenGL ES 2 with low-end SI Radeon on a SAM460: over 20.000.000 textured / lit / filtered triangles per second at FullHD (1920x1080)res. Speaking Amiga these
numbers are incredible!!!!!

Try that with MiniGL 😉

4. Remember:
OpenGL ES 2 != OpenGL (ES) 1 != MiniGL
Warp3D != Warp3D Nova



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- A600-Vampire600 FPGA // A4KT/CSPPC233,144MB,PCI, AOS4.1.6FE
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Beans 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 21:36:01
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@amigakit

If you'd like you can delete one or the other.
As to the performance of the wrapper and Warp 3D Nova, as the authorized seller for it you have an obvious bias here.

Let me know when someone has created something with it that performs adequately, since that is the real benchmark of its utility.

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Beans 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 21:42:30
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@zErec

That IS pretty impressive.
But I don't get this part:

"OpenGL ES 2 != OpenGL (ES) 1 != MiniGL
Warp3D != Warp3D Nova"

I'm perfectly willing to be educated if the current version is THAT much of an improvement.
But MiniGL performance IS pretty abysmal.

So hopefully, OpenGL ES 2 > OpenGL ES 1 and Warp3D Nova > Warp3D

Last edited by Beans on 10-Sep-2016 at 09:48 PM.

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zErec 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 21:54:50
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Dec-2003
Posts: 509
From: Germany

@Beans

Quote:

Beans wrote:
@zErec

But I don't get this part:

"OpenGL ES 2 != OpenGL (ES) 1 != MiniGL
Warp3D != Warp3D Nova"


Ahhh sorry.

!= means "is not "

"OpenGL ES 2 is not OpenGL (ES) 1 2 is not MiniGL
Warp3D 2 is not Warp3D Nova"

_________________
- AmigaX1Ooo with OS4.1FE // CD32/SX32Pro/SX1/CD32Shuttle
- A600-Vampire600 FPGA // A4KT/CSPPC233,144MB,PCI, AOS4.1.6FE
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Beans 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 22:07:19
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@zErec

Now that makes sense!
I've never seen that before, but then I can not think of a way of creating an equals sign with a cross through it.

I promise to keep better track of this, and I apologize for the confusion of mistaking this for anything operating on top of MiniGL.

Edit - OK...I just checked out Daniel Mussener's demo on Facebook.
That is working much better.

Last edited by Beans on 10-Sep-2016 at 10:23 PM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 11-Sep-2016 10:39:26
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3403
From: Unknown

@Beans

Zerec wrote != cause he think he was coding something

this means that he's working on something

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 11-Sep-2016 at 10:40 AM.

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Hans 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 11-Sep-2016 12:16:20
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4876
From: New Zealand

@zErec
Quote:
3. You want to bet? You'd lose:
Current performance of OpenGL ES 2 with low-end SI Radeon on a SAM460: over 20.000.000 textured / lit / filtered triangles per second at FullHD (1920x1080)res. Speaking Amiga these
numbers are incredible!!!!!

On the X1000 I get round 43 million triangles/s. However, triangles/s isn't a particularly good performance measure because there are multiple potential bottlenecks that limit the performance. I just ran a few quick tests:
- Quadrupling the triangles per ball to 3200 resulted in no frame-rate drop, so 172 million triangles/s
- Quadrupling the triangles per ball again to 12800 dropped the frame-rate to ~33-34 fps. That gives approx 440 million triangles/s

So the boingball test isn't isn't limited by the number of vertices or triangles per second (say thank you to Vertex Buffer Objects). The performance is most likely limited by the number of draw/API calls per second it's managing. There's room for improvement (optimizations, GART support, etc.), but the performance pretty decent. It's definitely a step up from MiniGL.

Hans

_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Rob 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 11-Sep-2016 18:50:32
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5768
From: S.Wales

@Beans

Quote:

Beans wrote:
@zErec

Now that makes sense!
I've never seen that before, but then I can not think of a way of creating an equals sign with a cross through it.

I promise to keep better track of this, and I apologize for the confusion of mistaking this for anything operating on top of MiniGL.

Edit - OK...I just checked out Daniel Mussener's demo on Facebook.
That is working much better.


There also this game being worked on by Amiboing/EntwicklerX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSvJy5cokgI

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Beans 
Re: Interested in learning OpenGL ES 2 or Warp3D Nova?
Posted on 11-Sep-2016 19:27:36
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Hans

Quote:
It's definitely a step up from MiniGL.


That is an understatement.
Its encouraging to see these independent advances.
Radeon HD drivers, Warp3D Nova, OpenGL ES 2, all outside of Hyperion.

Its a pity the pace of some things seem slowed down because of Hyperion's traditionally snail slow delivery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSvJy5cokgI

Neat stuff, pretty good looking for something on a Samantha.

Last edited by Beans on 11-Sep-2016 at 10:08 PM.

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