Is it just me or was the MacBook Pro launch event yesterday completely underwhelming? Now the Touch Bar is inevitably cool & you hipsters out there will just love that kool-aid but seriously a touch bar as the main roll out fanfare feature The new speakers are no doubt fairly dope too but what happened to trying to compete on specs with the Microsoft Surface or regular PeeCees? The Graphics Chip sucks again on all but the most expensive model and SkyLake CPUs are run of the mill now. I've tried to work out how to attach a pen drive to Thunderbolt 3 and it seems quite rare for people to sell them or would any USB-C socket pen drive work? Alternatively, are we just supposed to save to the Cloud and give up on all peripherals now? I would like a portable to play Elite Dangerous as well as use creative apps but you would have to be insane to buy a MacBook Pro with these specs/price. How would you attach a flight stick or game pad to a Thunderbolt 3 port? Also, with the post-Brexit vote price increases in the UK modern computers are beginning to make the X5000 seem reasonable

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@BigD

I think you're missing the point about the TouchBar

The TouchBar is not about being cool, it's about looking for a working user interface. I think it's telling that they chose not to incorporate a touchscreen (just like everybody else seems to be doing), and it's not like Apple doesn't master touchscreens.

I for one don't like touchscreens on laptops. It may work on tablets and smartphones but a laptop is a different beast.

I'm not an Apple fan, but I think it's an interesting approach, and I could see it extend to their workstations, included on their keyboards.

Evert.

Last edited by jorit2 on 29-Oct-2016 at 12:03 AM.

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@jorit2

Agreed, I don't even use touchscreen on laptops that have them.
Move my hands around that much? Its irritating.

But, for those that prefer them, it does make Apple's offerings less attractive.

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@Beans

It's not worth an extra £200 (difference between the base model without it) for a touch bar and 2 more USB-C ports They've got rid of the MagSafe port a truly great feature and replaced it with a gimmick that means they don't have to get finger prints on their Retina screen Basically, they keep taking out features and replacing them with less (weight, ports, drives, aluminium, character, usefulness) and expect people to pay more?!!! I'll stick with my Blu-Ray built in custom modded MacBook Pro until it dies at this rate (I can back up home videos and watch movies). I don't need a translucent piece of aluminium with a widget on the keyboard which is the direction they're going. I want standard USB 3.1 ports, a fast CPU, a very fast discrete GPU, a detachable battery and a built in Blu-Ray drive. A feather-light pretty piece of aluminium that will crumple the minute someone trips over the stinking USB-C lead that is charging it isn't progress!!

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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@jorit2

Quote:

I'm not an Apple fan, but I think it's an interesting approach, and I could see it extend to their workstations, included on their keyboards.

I thought about this too. Unfortunately, this is unlikey to work (well) with wireless input devices as you would need a relatively demanding wireless connection to make the display work, thus have exceptionally poor battery life (day(s) vs. many weeks / months).

Apple's wired keyboards are still technically for sale but, unlike their wireless counterparts, they have not been updated in years (7?) so it is clear that the focus is on wireless peripherals.

New Macbooks Pro looks like a failure to many and even to apple fans.

Nobody seems happy at the pricing.
Old hardware without possibility to expand it.
It is highly questionable if PRO users will fancy the touch bar or just need usual Fx keys.

@BigD

I went of apple when they switched to Intel but still demand excive high prices for low spec. At end of the day they are pretty much pc hardware inside a fancy case. So much for think different.

Last edited by g01df1sh on 29-Oct-2016 at 08:05 PM.

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@g01df1sh

Quote:

So much for think different

Mac users don't buy Macs for the hardware or the comparative value proposition they provide.

Clearly the Amiga community has evolved.

Amiga wins finally..

I too hate touch screens. That's why even this Nokia phone has real qwerty buttons.

@PR

Loved my Nokia n900 Linux powered phone with full slide out qwerty keyboard

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A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
Elbox empty Power Tower
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation
Vampire v4 SA

@ne_one

Quote:

Mac users don't buy Macs for the hardware or the comparative value proposition they provide.

Yes, I also bought a mac laptop, strictly for the OS.



(PowerBook for MorphOS )

@BigD

I hadn't seen their latest 'development' until I noticed this thread.

My MBP (10 years old) has recently died so I'd been weighing up the pro's and con's of getting a new 15" MBP - no more!

Their prices are way over my budget anyway, but coupled with the latest 'features' it's a definite no-no.

Looks like an Intel laptop with Linux Mint, then

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A500, A600, A1200 c/w Mediator and 030
AmigaOne and OS4.1
Mac LCII, G4 Powermac running OSX + Amigakit and MorphOS 3.0
Dell Mini 10 Netbook running IcAros and AmigaForever+Amikit+AmigaSys
2006 Macb

Apple are ripping off consumers. they know it and the dumber people or more wealthy people just keep buying their stuff, so, they keep increasing thee price...etc
only way to stop this cap is for people to stop buying from them

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@SHADES

Quote:

only way to stop this cap is for people to stop buying from them

That would give them an excuse to phase out the Mac line completely! They are far more likely to do that than take constructive criticism or attempt to learn from their mistakes. They now epitomise the global clunky mega corporation they claimed to despise back in the 'Think Different' days!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@g01df1sh

And also with modified firmware. That can cripple it. Some Linux CD's can't boot or lack drivers and you can't boot Windows normally and install it.

In some ways a Mac is like an AmigaOne. So I have this AmigaOne. It has the same CPU as a Mac/G4. But a normal PPC CD doesn't boot on it. I've tried OSX and Linux. They just don't work. Because of this stupid firmware that doesn't follow the defacto PPC boot standard set by Apple.

I'm still wondering where the right mouse button is and the keypad on a MacBook. But you are right. For years people said Amiga PPC machines are expensive because of the CPU. Well here we have a real commercial example of a custom x86[-64] setup that's still expensive! Of course that's Apple more than anything.

@Hypex

Quote:

So I have this AmigaOne. It has the same CPU as a Mac/G4. But a normal PPC CD doesn't boot on it. I've tried OSX and Linux. They just don't work.

Just because the CPU is the same doesn't mean the rest of the hardware is. Think how many different and incompatible computers used a 6502 or Z80 CPU.

Quote:

Because of this stupid firmware that doesn't follow the defacto PPC boot standard set by Apple.

I seem to recall that you couldn't even get the same bridge chips used in Apple PPC machines. Wasn't that the whole reason Escena tried designing their own for Eyetech, and Bplan, then Eyetech went to MAI logic. I don't think Apple would be handing out the source code for their firmware seeing as jobs killed the clones back in 1997.

@BigD

USB-C is USB3 done right, and there is a fairly good chance that it will catch on as a standard in a few years.

By then you will be moaning bout your 3 year old laptop having only obsolete USB-A ports

Optical media is also obsolete and Apple gets a big thumbsup from me for leaving it out.

"classic" F-keys (one can switch the touch bar to display them) are very counterintuive when used in apps, touch bar makes 100% sense when utilized right.

Apple laptops are quite solid considering their weight/size, you're free to get a 6pound plastic-bomb from another vendor.

Pricing is to rich for me, but the real bummer is the lack of updates on their desktop units.

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- blame Canada

I've hardly heard anything positive about anything Apple are doing in about 2 years now. The magic appears to be gone.

One thing I don't understand is how a company of Apple's side is incapable of doing more than a few things at once. Ok, they sell loads more iPhones than Macs, but why does that stop them having a decent Pro line?

I look back at the Apple kit I was using at work back in 2008. I had a silver Mac Pro under my desk which was a perfect pro desktop - expandable inside and out, great specs, and built like a tank. In our server-room we had several X-Serves which were great to work with. Apple has nothing like that now.

Back in the '90s, Apple had a bloated and confused line-up. In the 2010s they have a small and confused line-up. You can't plug your new iPhone into your new MacBook/Pro with the supplied lead because the lead is USB-A and the MacBook is USB-C only. You can't plug your new Lightning headphones into your MacBook because it has no Lightning port but it does have a 3.5mm headphone jack. Why did Apple tell us the headphone jack was redundant and put one in its top the range laptop? According to Apple, the future of mobiles is wireless and yet the iPhone has no wireless charging, just a cable. Why sell 11" & 13" MacBook Air alongside the 12" MacBook? (at least they stopped selling the 11" now) What exactly is Pro about the iPad Pro? The list goes on and on..

It's all a huge mess right now. Giving the Mac Mini, iMac and Mac Pro a spec bump would've papered over the cracks, but it seems they couldn't even be bothered to do that.

I've been a big fan of Apple for many years. I like their software more than Microsoft's and I like their attitude to customer details more than Google's, but I wonder when, if ever, I'll be wowed by an Apple product again. Shame.

Last edited by clebin on 30-Oct-2016 at 08:35 PM.
Last edited by clebin on 30-Oct-2016 at 08:34 PM.

@Kronos

I've heard a few people try to claim optical media is obsolete. This is, quite frankly a crock.
Want to watch a 4K 3d movie? A single viewing, without optical media runs in the realm of 150 Gig. In Australia this would cost you in the region of $100 (average price of a 150Gig per month plan). Want to watch a 4k 3d movie twice in a month? Sorry, no go, if your provider caps speed rather than stop the service then its too slow at best. Chances are you'll hit the "fair go" ceiling as well, getting your service suspended.
All this is assuming you do absolutely nothing else with your internet for the month as well.
Not to mention streaming video and audio is more heavily compressed/lower quality vs what you'd get on a blu-ray disc, that costs much less and can be viewed multiple times.
Now each to their own, but when I buy decent gear I do so as to be able to enjoy the benefits it brings, not so as to then have to pay out more money for an inferior result.

Now if a person is happy with low quality, wasteful product then sure, by all means they can survive without optical media, but there's still plenty of reasons for it to exist, and will be for quite some time.

Many people are also collectors (myself included), and I can tell you now my 7-800 disc collection is a heck of a lot more satisfying than the 7,000 video files spread over the 24TB of HDD space I have. They're also better quality, despite the fact most of my video files average 8-9 gig (and upwards).

Thank God for optical media or else the cost of storing thousands of good quality video files would be astronomical. And you'd lose content.

What about consoles or PC games? Well it's pretty clear by the outrage people showed towards Sony and Microsoft that people wouldn't have any part of an online only console.
This is also another area where optical media is a better option. Gaming has constant data streaming, be it soundtracks, voice tracks, textures, code data, etc. To go sans optical media makes gaming a very, very expensive proposition, especially at modern fidelities.

The only people whose experience wouldn't suffer without optical media are those who survive exclusively on pirated content and/or those who are content with low to medium audio/video content. Even then you'd have to live somewhere that truly unlimited data plans (not capped) are cheap.


Also, you do realize that its not just Apple that do thin and light laptops right? Its pretty much the norm these days, and quite frankly Apple are definitely not ahead of the curve in this regard. They're beaten by quite a few vendors in that game. Bulky, heavy laptops are pretty much in the realm of DTR machines these days.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 30-Oct-2016 at 09:47 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 30-Oct-2016 at 09:37 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 30-Oct-2016 at 09:27 PM.

@fishy_fis

On my DSL line I can easily hit 1TB/month without ever hearing from my provider.


But thats not the point, just because a select few want to use there laptop as portable cinema means I have to life with a bigger and heavier machine running shorter on a single charge?

Optical may still have a limited use in desktop or home entertainment, in mobile it's obselete.

And in just a few years we will laugh about 100gb files just as now do about HighDensity floppy disks.

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- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada