@clebin

Quote:

clebin wrote: @fishy_fis Quote: Once that happened Apple products stand out as what they've actually always been. Standard, expensive computers with a mostly superficial gloss of paint designed to distract from the fact that this is what they are. I really don't agree with this. In fact, it was more like the other way around. Take the "Tibook" from 2002. There was no superficial gloss, just stonking great design inside and out. It was thin, light, wide-screen (which was rare), made of high quality materials like titanium and packed full of neat details that showed Apple actually cared about the quality of its gear. In reply, Windows OEMs could only literally use a superficial gloss of silver paint on their cheap plastic laptops. And I include so-called premium brands in that. Windows XP was kind of the same. Apple had launched OS X with a modern compositing graphics layer and beautiful theme called Aqua. All Microsoft could do in reply was slap a cheap-looking blue theme onto Windows 2000. Like the silver paint on the laptops, it was purely skin deep.

I totally agree with this, Sir!

Apple was top notch in design, no corners cut!


Quote:

Now that other companies have caught up and sometimes surpassed Apple, it's easy to forget how different things were 15 years ago.

Maybe Apple slipped rather than the other raced up?


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Quote: Apple of today feels like MS of a decade ago. Rested on its laurels thinking itself untouchable for too long, simply paying lip service to its customers, then waking up one day and realizing things have changed, but having no idea how to reestablish itself. Sadly, I do agree with you on this!

I'm thinking about what "Beans" just said above, regarding considering the Iphone SE for his niece.

My wife previously had an iPhone 5. It had a solid, robust, high quality metal case.

I myself have an iPhone 5s, and I am very happy with that. It has the same quality case, and the same size. But with the "Cyclone" CPU (the Apple A7), which was a monumental leap forward, compared to the generic ARM that was in the iPhone 5 and other phones at the time. (Touching "desktop" CPU performance for the first time)

Then came the iPhone 6 (a lot faster, with the A8). Then the 6S (even more faster, with the A9). But while having a bigger screen (and bigger size), they both went the "plastic" route. iPhone kind of went "Samsung", which IMHO didn't rhyme well with their quality and prestige brand.

My wife (having an iPhone 5) was beginning to think it was slow. And it was, with the latest version of iOS and its apps. But she didn't really want that big size (and expensive) phones like iPhone 6 and iPhone 6s.

It was therefore a relief when the iPhone SE was released! It has the same quality metal case that the iPhone 5 and 5s had, but underneath he hood it was an iPhone 6s, straight off (with A9, the identical 4K camera and all), everything but the "purse only" screen size, and the touch sensitivity of the screen. And the plastic finish.

Apple has marketed (barely at all!) the iPhone SE as a low budget phone. And it had a considerably(!) lower cost. But in my eyes, it was the first choice of modern iPhones (and still is!), regardless of price.

Perfect size for those of us who would want to slide down the phone in the jeans pocket instead of carrying it in a purse, and don't want it to bend and crack if you sit down while having it in your pocket. And all relevant technology under the hood!

I hope they will eventually make the iPhone 7 (or 7s) in an iPhone 5/5s/SE outfit!

I would buy it!

Last edited by TRIPOS on 02-Nov-2016 at 02:06 AM.

@TRIPOS

Quote:

Apple was top notch in design, no corners cut!

I'm sure that Samsung would see the irony in that one.

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Maybe Apple slipped rather than the other raced up?

Or maybe everything has basically just become more of the same.

The irony in all of this is that the same market indifference has created lots of new opportunities.

Gee...

Last edited by ne_one on 02-Nov-2016 at 04:55 AM.

@BigD

I mean that due to the engineer needed one could have a mac with multiple usb-c ports costing more then this which has only one plus dongle. If you need the extra ports you factor them in price and then choose if the price is right or not

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@pixie

Quote:

If you need the extra ports you factor them in price and then choose if the price is right or not

Do you really think the Apple mind set works like that! There is no common sense in their engineering; the price difference between having a Touch Bar and 2 extra ports is £200 up on the basic model The issue my friend is not the number of ports but the type of ports. There are no useful ones present and the dongles that make them useful are around £70. The MagSafe power port is missing because again Apple have cut corners to get more profit by increasing the price of the machine while actually providing less features. I don't care that USB-C might be the next big thing if you can't plug your pen drive into it today without a £70 attachment then it's not fulfilling a requirement. Again, if your computer smashes to the ground because Apple can no longer be bothered to help you save your investment by including the great MagSafe power cable design then it's Apple cutting corners. The whole thing is a vanity project from an Apple mega corporation that I no longer recognise.

I reiterate that engineering or design has nothing to do with this. A 'Pro' user needs ports and has devices that he expects to connect. Apple have made it as hard and un-ergonomic as possible for them to connect said products because they are selling a lifestyle and not good and useful computers! They feel they can charge the Earth and trade on the trust they have built up with their customers who feel their brand stands for good quality software and cutting edge hardware design. Instead Apple pretend to be trendsetters and experts in knowing what we want before we do ourselves and yet they are making their 'Pro' machines glorified web surfing machines. These machines were designed by committee. "Give us a hardware gimmick and we'll sell it with the software," was probably the mission statement.

Last edited by BigD on 02-Nov-2016 at 07:36 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

The MagSafe will surely be missed! You're quite on the spot, but apple has to allow others to catch on.. ;)

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@TRIPOS

Yeah, the iPhone 6 SE is nice.
Same power as the other 6 models, but more compact (the same size as the iPhone 5 and a metal case).
And the price is better.

_________________
Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

@BigD

Here is a classic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA

@BigD

Here is a classic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA

@TRIPOS

That sums up the sort of idiotic mindset the Apple behemoth currently has. Maybe they're not quite that insane but getting rid of both the headphone jack on the iPhone and standard USB ports on the MacBook Pro before suitable replacements are available with proper peripheral support is not far off this 'wheel replaces keyboard' madness

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Rob

Quote:

Think how many different and incompatible computers used a 6502 or Z80 CPU.

Yes I can think of how my C16 was incompatible with a friends C64 despite the CPU being code compatible. But I already knew that. Or found out. Another example is an Apple and C64. Compatible CPU, different machine and OS.

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Wasn't that the whole reason Escena tried designing their own for Eyetech, and Bplan, then Eyetech went to MAI logic.

I don't know but before the AmigaOne there was the Predator A1200 which was a PPC accelerator that used an A1200 as a dongle and AGA for compatibility. Was looking forward to it until Eyetech scrapped it for a full machine.

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don't think Apple would be handing out the source code for their firmware seeing as jobs killed the clones back in 1997.

Well, Macs ran on OpenFirmware, which implies the source is available. So anything could support OF booting. Even if it might crash. I think UBoot has some OF support. And CFE looks like it was built on it.

@Kronos

Quote:

Optical media is also obsolete and Apple gets a big thumbsup from me for leaving it out.

For me it's not. AFAIK CDs haven't been replaced by a new media format with superior quality. After SACD failed. DVD audio hasn't really caught on yet. The newest thing in my local record store is actual new vinyl records. So that doesn't count. Now Apple want you buy songs rather than ITunerfy your CD collection so they won't care for that.

I agree with fishy_fis but must say I don't play CDs or watch Blurays on a laptop. Mine are all too slow. To watch a video I like to use a dedicated player. Hooked up to a dedicated display device. Like a TV.

But on a laptop I always find an optical drive useful. If my network is broken on the A4000 and I want to transfer data then out comes a CDRW. Yes new Mac people wouldn't be using old obscure computers. Also it's useful to boot an OS disc. Sure these days there are recovery partitions and USB booters. But does USB booting work now on a Mac? Can you write a Linux ISO to a USB stick and boot it out of the box?

But the most important reason is backing up data. Some would disagree. But I still find the most reliable way of backing up data is to an optical disc. Store it away and it can last for years. Perhaps CDR/W or even DVDR/W has a stronger and longer lasting physical media but being able to back up 25 or 50GB to a Blu disc sounds good to me.

Sure you can hook up an external backup drive. But mechanical drives can and do fail. And I don't trust flash media. I also wouldn't rely on the cloud. For one thing you could have personal data than is being stored on the internet, even if encrypted. And really this is a secondary backup to local solutions. But my main issue would be speed. I don't see this taking off. So if a good internet speed would be 100 Mb giving us an average of 10MB/s transfer rate then loading a file off a backup from the cloud will be about as fast as WarpEngine SCSI on an old A4000! And worse for saving. People are getting impatient. Who would put up with speeds like that these days? Compared to an old drive the internet is so slow! And it still took off.

Last edited by Hypex on 05-Nov-2016 at 07:08 AM.

@Thread

Complaining on the internet works as Apple have dropped the price or their USB-C dongles up until Christmas! They are now ONLY £49.99!

USB-C AV adapter on the Apple Store

... and here's the standard one down from £19 to £9!

USB-C to standard USB adapter

That's a least some sanity restored but only as a cynical move to encourage people to upgrade before Christmas. These £9 adapters should be given away free in my view to all customers buying a £1000+ Apple laptop

Even the BBC agrees;

BBC Website: Dongle dilemma provokes Apple price cut

Quote:

As the world’s richest company, it has time and resources on its side. But with that in mind, couldn’t it afford to pop a dongle or two in the box to make its present-day customers a little happier?

Last edited by BigD on 05-Nov-2016 at 03:42 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 05-Nov-2016 at 03:38 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 05-Nov-2016 at 03:34 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

Quote:

by TRIPOS on 2-Nov-2016 2:02:55 @clebin Quote: clebin wrote: @fishy_fis Quote: Once that happened Apple products stand out as what they've actually always been. Standard, expensive computers with a mostly superficial gloss of paint designed to distract from the fact that this is what they are. I really don't agree with this. In fact, it was more like the other way around. Take the "Tibook" from 2002. There was no superficial gloss, just stonking great design inside and out. It was thin, light, wide-screen (which was rare), made of high quality materials like titanium and packed full of neat details that showed Apple actually cared about…

The author appreciates Apple's design and quality, but feels that recent choices to use plastic instead of metal might have impacted the brand negatively. They are pleased with how well-rounded iPhone SE is in terms of both hardware (A9 chip) and form factor similar to older models like iPhone 5/5S while offering modern features at a lower cost, thus making it their preferred choice despite being priced higher than other phones on the market.