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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 10-May-2017 19:10:11
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11993
From: Norway

@Nicsoft

Way not AmigaOS 10.0 or AmigaOS 40.0

When developers write software, they normally operate with 4 numbers.

Major. Minor. Revisions. Build

So normally have night build, auto build, binaries, versions number do not normally increases while working on it. so this where build number comes in.

Revisions, so try out some you have revision.

Then there is Minor changes, you fixed a few bugs, added some stuff, but noting major.
Then there is Major number, almost has be changed to increase this number.
I believe 3.2 or some was the version Escom worked on for Walker.
Then a lot of nothing happened.

AmigaOS3.5, came with new GUI toolkit,
ClassAct, NSDPatch for Large disk support.

Then there was OS3.9 that was going to be last 680x0 version before PowerPC version.
OS3.9 combined WarpUP, and there was new Notepad, included media player, many contributions. There was not that many critical changes

Moving forward to AmigaOS4.0 pre developer cd, released in 2004,
major rewrite of GUI, Intuition, most of was ported / recompiled or rewritten for PowerPC.
Petunia JIT compiler, no more hacks, every thing was fixed in libraries, no need to fool around with setpatch and all kind of patches from Aminet.
RoadShow TCP/IP stack -> has good support for bootp/dhcp, and it pretty fast compared to older TCP/IP stacks on AmigaOS.

then there was update 1 to 4, with focus on new filesystems, and stability issues of AmiagONE-SE/XE, and so on. Also Raction is big upgrade from ClassAct in AmigaOS3.9,

AmigaOS4.1 hardware accelerated 2D, real transparency.
AmigaOS4.1 final, icing on the cake, clean up of graphic.library/picasso96.library, support for yuv modes in bitmaps, improves video playback speeds. before you need convert yuv bitmaps into RGB to display it, or you need a graphic card that supported PIP, but with this update PIP was not needed anymore. New Amiga Shell, no need to install KingCon Anymore.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2017 at 07:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2017 at 07:16 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2017 at 07:13 PM.

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amigakit 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 10-May-2017 19:23:43
#62 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2423
From: www.amigakit.com

@NutsAboutAmiga

Just a small correction:

Quote:
support for yuv modes in bitmaps, improves video playback speeds


This is nothing to do with Hyperion's FE update. This was an advancement made to the RadeonHD V2 driver by A-EON. The RadeonHD driver is "third party software", part of the Enhancer Software.

Last edited by amigakit on 10-May-2017 at 07:25 PM.

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cgutjahr 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 10-May-2017 19:39:26
#63 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 950
From: Unknown

Can we please stop the stupid "it's not more expensive than a classic" discussion? These days, computers cost 10% of what they used to cost - except AmigaOnes, that is. Nobody cares what your TBC card cost in 1987.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

There is Warp3D Nova, you have old Warp3D, and you have MiniGL, and OpenGL ES

The whole point about Gallium 3D was not being yet another 3D API for AmigaOS, but being the base for a badly needed complete rewrite/redesign of the way AmigaOS outputs any graphics - be they 2D or 3D. Gallium was supposed to be the base which both graphics.library and OpenGL/Warp 3D/whatever used for output.

@amigang:

Quote:

But I think really Os4.1FE update 1 with Enhancer Software 1.2 feels like 4.2

FE wasn't free for X1000 customers, it doesn't do SMP and it didn't come with a new graphics subsystem. To me, it feels nothing like 4.2.

@lylehaze:

I didn't say you can't get work done on AmigaOS - I got all my work done on AmigaOS until a few years ago. The problem is: it's both a pain in the ass and a lot more limited than what other platforms have to offer. While you're busy jumping through hoops, other users just get the job done using one of the dozens of very powerful packages available to them.

@Trevor:

Quote:

As long as they got 4.5 (instead of 4.2) I don't think people would be too bothered.

Whatever its label will be, it will still have SMP and a new 3D system, and X1000 customers will still get it for free, right?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 10-May-2017 19:39:29
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11993
From: Norway

@amigakit

Well there was also changed made to graphics.library.kmod to do that.
It was coordinated effort. If made it sound like AEON did do anything that, then I'm sorry.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2017 at 07:46 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2017 at 07:42 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2017 at 07:40 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 10-May-2017 19:50:57
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11993
From: Norway

@cgutjahr

Quote:
The whole point about Gallium 3D was not being yet another 3D API for AmigaOS, but being the base for a badly needed complete rewrite/redesign of the way AmigaOS outputs any graphics - be they 2D or 3D. Gallium was supposed to be the base which both graphics.library and OpenGL/Warp 3D/whatever used for output.


I don't think there has been any official statement about it being cancelled from Hyperion, and it is doable with frame work that setup by RadeonHD drivers. As I understand it.

I don't think Gallium is an essential component as it is now, but won't hurt having it. I won't cry if was implemented.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2017 at 07:54 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-May-2017 at 07:52 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 10-May-2017 20:24:07
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2721
From: Amiga land

@lylehaze
another think really needed in amigaos 4.2 is ... radeonhd audio from hdm ... or better sound hd intel working

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cgutjahr 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 10-May-2017 21:40:28
#67 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 950
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

I don't think there has been any official statement about it being cancelled from Hyperion

"It's only true if you can read it on our website", right? No wait - that was the other outfit.

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TRIPOS 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 10-May-2017 22:19:30
#68 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1159
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote:
@iggy

im more then realist ... but we have to be honest, 4.2 for sure we will see in future


The 4.2 that has been promised will realistically never be released, simply because the features aren't possible without breaking Amiga compatibility. Besides, the pace in which OS4 has been developed the last half decade suggests there are hardly any people left with the required competence for the kind of low level OS development required to make anything close to 4.2.


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TRIPOS 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 10-May-2017 22:54:03
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1159
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Quote:

Trixie wrote:
@wawa

Quote:
but insisting on that amiga in its glory days was objectively as expensive as what you buy

I'm not saying that: I'm saying that Amiga in its glory days was actually more expensive than what I have now.


Computers were generally a lot more expensive back then. Look in old mags for advertisements for 386 or 486 workstation systems of the time, and you will probably find the Amiga systems from the same era to be kind of affordable, relatively speaking.

I don't know why some people feel the urge to cultivate the myth that "Amiga has always been expensive"? Maybe it is a marketing stunt to push ridiculously priced and poorly specced X1000 and X5000 systems? But the same time that you realize we are talking about the same prices as for a contemporary Mac Pro, which is a state of the art X64 system with very high specs and features and a novel custom design, and that also has the huge Apple brand tax applied to it, then discussing AmigaOneX prices isn't very fun anymore, right? Especially when you consider what you actually get for your money. The systems are more than a decade apart, no, more - they are several dimensions apart, tech wise, spec wise, performance wise. Only the price is the same. In 2017.

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Rob 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 0:07:12
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6106
From: S.Wales

@TRIPOS
Quote:
But the same time that you realize we are talking about the same prices as for a contemporary Mac Pro


Then get a Mac Pro and stop whining about a system you have no interest in owning or using.

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Yssing 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 0:12:49
#71 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1053
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
The 4.2 that has been promised will realistically never be released, simply because the features aren't possible without breaking Amiga compatibility.


That is being repeated over and over again, even though it's not true.

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ne_one 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 0:58:57
#72 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 900
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:

The 4.2 that has been promised will realistically never be released, simply because the features aren't possible without breaking Amiga compatibility.


So instead of updating or replacing older software it's better to simply do nothing in order to preserve the status quo?

SMP isn't the only thing that needs work and it's fairly inconsequential.

Quote:

Besides, the pace in which OS4 has been developed the last half decade suggests there are hardly any people left with the required competence for the kind of low level OS development required to make anything close to 4.2.


So not much is happening because Hyperion can't find people with the right credentials to the development? And that's because they're focused on real-time microkernel development for self-learning AI?

It's amazing how many ways apologists condone this fiasco rather than just admitting to the fact that the problem is Hyperion.

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thinkchip 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 4:06:02
#73 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1175
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

@ne_one

X1000 is dual core. X5000 is dual core or quad core. I don't have either one of them. But they have the potential to be much faster because of the multiple cores. So even though the number 4.2 doesn't mean anything, I think x1000 or x5000 owners would like to be able to utilize the additional cores. Software is lagging way behind the hardware in this respect. From what I've been able to glean from the dribbles of information we get, the thing that is holding SMP up is compatibility. At some point Amiga NG will have to break with the past. It's inevitable.

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tlosm 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 5:16:06
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2721
From: Amiga land

@TRIPOS

tripos the compatibility will be broken only if the smp is on 64bit os ...
if on 32 will be not broken nothing.... i dont have any broken compatibility on linux with 64bit kernel and 32bit os... the compatibility is broken if the kernel is 64bit and the os is 64bit too.
the same can be replicate on amigaos. the ppc are 32 and 64 bit capables.

Last edited by tlosm on 11-May-2017 at 05:16 AM.

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BSzili 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 5:25:44
#75 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 430
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
There is few games that use Gallium, some use OpenGl, some use DirectX, just because we have Nova, does make Gallium useless,


This is nonsense. Gallium3D is a very low level API meant to streamline 3D driver development, why would games use it directly?

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PR 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 7:01:10
#76 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1950
From: Suomi-Finland

It would be fair for all AmigaOne users to get the Software to support the HW.


I'm happy when got the T-Shirt. No 50 dollars back still waiting.

(The interest is about 5% over here;)


Last edited by PR on 11-May-2017 at 07:02 AM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 7:08:37
#77 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1159
From: Unknown

@TrevorDick

Quote:

TrevorDick wrote:

AmigaOS 4.2 is just a label.


Certainly NOT! OS 4.2 is an extensive list of promised features!

And it has been "just around the corner" for at least a decade, and at one point ssolie proclaimed that it was to follow right after OS 4.1.3. It must have been one of the longest carrot-dangling schemes in history, and it has been used a lot to justify selling extremely expensive H/W to gullible people willing to sell their left kidney to be in the club: "OK, the current OS4 isn't able to use this H/W as it's supposed to, but once OS 4.2 gets here all features will be covered".

So let's NOT get into history revisionism by calling OS 4.2 "just a label".

Quote:
Let's just embrace our remarkable and endurable community.


The by now virtually non-existing community you mean, due to everyone felt that all hope is gone since there is no possible future built on 2005 level H/W tied to a dead-end CPU architecture, systems costing $3000 or thereabout, to use an OS (that barely has a heartbeat) to run 1995 level apps like Personal Paint, that you once again have to buy (after having been uploaded to Aminet as abandonware a decade ago). No future in that. It's dead, and all you crying "It must be PPC", "the Amiga has always been expensive", "teh true!1! Amiga is Amigaone with Xorro and Xena" are the ones that killed the future.

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TRIPOS 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 7:09:40
#78 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1159
From: Unknown

@TrevorDick

Quote:

TrevorDick wrote:
@RWO

As long as they got 4.5 (instead of 4.2) I don't think people would be too bothered.

TrevorD



Again, it is NOT "just a label"!

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TRIPOS 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 7:19:19
#79 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1159
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:

When developers write software, they normally operate with 4 numbers.

Major. Minor. Revisions. Build




Everyone knowing and following the Amiga way knows that the Commodore guidelines (in the RKRM) stipulates 2 numbers:

Version.Revision

But maybe what you say is true for OS4? OS4 has broken so many other Amiga concepts anyway, so I suppose this would just be one more entry to the list...

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TRIPOS 
Re: O.S.4.2.R.I.P.
Posted on 11-May-2017 7:26:56
#80 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1159
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote:
@TRIPOS

tripos the compatibility will be broken only if the smp is on 64bit os ...
if on 32 will be not broken nothing....


Had you known anything about the requirements of the legacy Amiga environment, then you would have known that this is simply not true.

Quote:
i dont have any broken compatibility on linux with 64bit kernel and 32bit os...


Oh! My! God!

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