@Overflow

Quote:

I just installed ApolloOS, which looks really neat, but at the end of it, the available utilities are still as old as when I ran the Vampire on AOS3.9 with my own tweaks.

I could ask the same question about OS4. Aside from the enhancer pack and some video driver updates, what new software is available for OS4 that wasn't available when I bought OS4 back in 2007? Nothing of significance. Not even the office suite that was promised or a web browser that doesn't choke on most web sites.

No one needs an Amiga, neither a classic, an NG, nor a Vampire. They are hobby machines and a luxury to those hobbyists who can afford them.

@ferrels

Quote:

what new software is available for OS4 that wasn't available when I bought OS4 back in 2007

Don´t tell us you didn´t upgrade to OS4.1FE?

Quote:

Nothing of significance

OWB was not released until 2008...

@BigD

[quote]
Ideally, we'd all be buying X5000s and ALSO buying a Vampire for our Classics if we don't have access to fast accelerators.

I think you may want to re-assess the also buying a vampire card as well as getting an X5000.
Having had the X5000 now for a few months, I'm struggling to find an actual reason to switch on my old A1200 ever again so in its box it will stay now for preservation One advantage of the A1222 is that it will be totally new hardware as opposed to running an new accelerator on existing 25 year old hardware.

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@pavlor

Quote:

Don´t tell us you didn´t upgrade to OS4.1FE?

Nope, sold my OS4 system after waiting 3 years for updates and the promised office suite and browser. And OS4 didn't offer me anything that I couldn't do on my A1200 anyway.

Quote:

OWB was not released until 2008...

Yes, and 9 years later web browsing on OS4 is still painful if not impossible on many sites.

Amigas are simply hobby machines these days, but back in 2007 I made the mistake of buying into the hype that one could do real work and make a profit using an NG Amiga and OS4.

These days I play around with OS4 via emulation under WInUAE, but it's just a toy and not enough OS4 customers even exist out there who work in my field (LIDAR) to warrant any OS4 development on my part. Plus the data sets I use are so large that a 64-bit architecture is a requirement, so any Amiga-like development that I undertake will be on AROS x86_x64.

@outrun1978

Quote:

as opposed to running an new accelerator on existing 25 year old hardware.

I don't follow? If it works it works. If it's a 25 year old Amiga that it is still in weekly use and hasn't failed yet or has had its caps replaced then it will probably last another couple of decades and will outlast ALL of the Eyetech AmigaOnes and depending on its build quality the Tabor!

For one thing old C= machines used old lead based solder that meant that electronics lasted longer!

Last edited by BigD on 03-Aug-2017 at 08:22 PM.

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@outrun1978

Quote:

I'm struggling to find an actual reason to switch on my old A1200 ever again so in its box it will stay now for preservation One advantage of the A1222 is that it will be totally new hardware as opposed to running an new accelerator on existing 25 year old hardware.

Not much of a point there since I'm a Vampire standalone buyer, so my hardware IS new too.

@ferrels

I'm interested in LIDAR and I was just listening to a lecture on the benefits of LIDAR to the work of Network Rail consultants (Asset Management) here in the UK!

... I'm sure the datasets are indeed massive as I learnt that the average density of LIDAR points in the software they're using is 40 points per meter squared!

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@ferrels

Quote:

It also doesn't seem to have working NIC or audio which is also worrisome. No word on those issues either.

It's in beta. Why is it worrisome that the NIC and audio are not currently working under OS4.1?

Also the source for that information was a video released in February.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPdr7MaGvLo

The audio and NIC drivers could be in beta right now for all we know.

@BigD

Quote:

I'm interested in LIDAR and I was just listening to a lecture on the benefits of LIDAR to the work of Network Rail consultants (Asset Management) here in the UK! ... I'm sure the datasets are indeed massive as I learnt that the average density of LIDAR points in the software they're using is 40 points per meter squared!

Yes, they can be massive. One customer sent me a LIDAR file containing over 83 million points and was 1.6 GB in size. I often generate surface models that exceed 4 GB.


If you're curious enough to look at my site, here's the link: LIDAR Widgets

@Rob

Quote:

It's in beta. Why is it worrisome that the NIC and audio are not currently working under OS4.1?

Because the machine was announced 2 years ago and there still isn't working audio or networking. And now it's 6 months later from the time that video was posted and still no working NIC or audio drivers and still no expected release date. And nowhere in that video does it state that the drivers are in beta. It states that they don't exist. Also, that video is not from A-EON or Hyperion.

The drivers COULD be in beta, they COULD be in alpha, they may not even exist. My point is that the Vampire is available now, and it works. So to say that it's in a release race with the Tabor is ridiculous. The Tabor hasn't even showed up for the race let alone compete for a release date.

Last edited by ferrels on 03-Aug-2017 at 08:56 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 03-Aug-2017 at 08:48 PM.

@ferrels

Drivers take time to write, and it pain to debug on a OS that freezes and crashes, if you make a tiny mistake.

Vampire on the other hand is designed around Amiga1200 hardware, there is old IDE controller, does even have SATA, the Vampire is just faster and new. No new SATA controller or ADUIO = no new drivers, the Vampire uses a FPGA so they can fix mistakes after it packed and sent to the customers, so they can sell it before they have a working FPU.

And lets be real the Vimpire was started when they worked on NatAMI,

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2017 at 09:13 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2017 at 09:12 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2017 at 08:59 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Drivers take time to write, and it pain to debug on a OS that freezes and crashes, if you make a tiny mistake. Vampire on the other hand is designed around Amiga1200 hardware, there is old IDE controller, does even have SATA, the Vampire is just faster and new. No new SATA controller or ADUIO = no new drivers, the Vampire uses a FPGA so they can fix mistakes after it packed and sent to the customers, so they can sell it before they have a working FPU. And lets be real the Vimpire was started when they worked on NatAMI,

You're only helping me make my point. As a software developer I know the problems that can hinder development. And 2 years to write and debug audio and NIC drivers is ridiculous.

The Natami was developed with an expected release date to be 2011.....so when was OS4 developed? Around 2001. And they still can't get drivers written for a new piece of hardware in 2017, still have buggy USB, and no SMP. Simply ludicrous. Hyperion is either incompetent or A-EON is delaying the manufacture and release of the Tabor boards until the price drops significantly for the Tabor's CPU since they announced the 400 Euro price 2 years ago...or possibly both. So either way, if you're waiting for a Tabor, it sucks to be you. Nothing wrong with maximizing profits, that's what businesses do, but stop thinking that 2 years is somehow a "normal" amount of time to develop and debug drivers. It isn't, even in Amiga-land. You guys have just bought into all the same tired excuses from A-EON and Hyperion.

Last edited by ferrels on 03-Aug-2017 at 10:37 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 03-Aug-2017 at 10:36 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 03-Aug-2017 at 10:28 PM.

@ferrels

"still have buggy USB"

That's a hardware problem on AmigaONE-SE/XE you can fix with software, the issue is the signal level are not set when unplug the USB devices, I fixed by 13K pull down resistors on AmigaONE-XE.

USB is protocol based, peek load from other programs can effect USB, handling.

I have no problem with USB on my AmigaONE-X1000, I think Varisys hardware seams to me to better quality.

I remember have lots of problem, with my old PC's using VIA686B chip-set, that is used on AmigaONE-XE, Mai Logic made horrible chips and motherboards, no wonder they went bankrupt.

The ACube-System hardware reviews has been bit mixed bag, from what I have read.

Hardware is depends on parts used and skills of designers, if hardware sucks, there is not lot you can do about as software developer.

Genesi hardware was not too bad:
Pegasus II, users steams to be happy about the USB support.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2017 at 11:01 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2017 at 10:55 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Believe what you will, but this much is certain. Until NG Amiga users start demanding a better OS and better hardware, things will not improve. All I see here is the same old cheer-leading and an OS that's stuck in 2003.

@ferrels

"Tabor" is new a new PCB layout lots chip that needs to work in harmony, making sure it works, testing it work running Linux,

Then there difference in different PowerPC chips, they all have different instructions, and CPU they picked for Tabor has exotic FPU, its has more in common with AltiVec, then a normal FPU, you need emulate instructions in software, in-order for fallback, non optimized applications, seeing video of Tabor, I don't think FPU was big of problem as was expected.

They they have been working on Amiga X5020 and X5040 at the same time as A1222 so, it makes sense that some development be bit serial.

In addition they wont make sure things works, so they beta testers to check if working before released to public, that NDA, so don't know what going on there.

So basically A1222 is different hardware design, they are working on other projects in parallel, and things has to beta tested.

And lets not forget there are other projects being worked on like LibreOffice, so there is lot of things going on.

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@ferrels

Quote:

Until NG Amiga users start demanding a better OS and better hardware

You mean ask Mai Logic to be resurrect from there bankruptcy and fix the AmigaONE-SE/XE? Eyetech, that sold the AmigaONE-XE and SE, kind disappeared. so good luck with that.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2017 at 10:52 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

"Tabor" is new a new PCB layout lots chip that needs to work in harmony, making sure it works, testing it work running Linux, Then there difference in different PowerPC chips, they all have different instructions, and CPU they picked for Tabor has exotic FPU, its has more in common with AltiVec, then a normal FPU, you need emulate instructions in software, in-order for fallback, non optimized applications, seeing video of Tabor, I don't think FPU was big of problem as was expected. They they have been working on Amiga X5020 and X5040 at the same time as A1222 so, it makes sense that some development be bit serial. In addition they wont make sure things works, so they beta testers to check if working before released to public, that NDA, so don't know what going on there. So basically A1222 is different hardware design, they are working on other projects in parallel, and things has to beta tested. And lets not forget there are other projects being worked on like LibreOffice, so there is lot of things going on.

Using a new PCB layout as another excuse for a late release is absurd too. PCB layout with the right software such as EAGLE makes very short work of multi-layer board design. Just ask the guys over at Vampire. The PPC CPU isn't exotic. If it's exotic to Hyperion after 16 years of OS4 development, then something's terribly wrong. The Tabor CPU is well documented. And testers have had their hands on Tabor dev units for close to 2 years so the hardware development has already been completed unless they've discovered some major engineering flaw(s). And I've been hearing about a LibreOffice port for close to 4 years or more with absolutely no substance behind it. If you keep accepting excuses and mediocrity, that's what you ultimately end up with.....but waiting for it doesn't say much about one's intelligence.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

You mean ask Mai Logic to be resurrect from there bankruptcy and fix the AmigaONE-SE/XE? Eyetech, that sold the AmigaONE-XE and SE, kind disappeared. so good luck with that.

No. You should be constantly on A-EON and Hyperion's @ss with emails and phone calls asking about the features they've been promising for years instead of swallowing every lame excuse that gets thrown your way.

@ferrels

Im not a NG/PPC user, but just like we dont demand any particular pace from Apollo Team, I dont think its realistic to demand from Hyperion either.

Aeonkit realise the urgency, which is why they have been pushing their own enhancer package, and hired Hans for Radeon driver.

But going 20 rounds about the pace in amigaland seems like a pointless exersise.

Enjoy what we have, and support Aeonkit if we want faster NG pace.

Same with Apollo Team.