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      /  Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
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PosterThread
AP 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 10:48:30
#101 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@pavlor: Interesting, at least for Tower57 SPEon Tabor is much faster than FPU on SAM460:

--- Copy & Paste ---

Daniel Müßener (7.12.2017)

Three Tower57 port Tabor fun facts:

- the latest SPE build reaches up to 80 fps. This simply demolishs the sam460ex, factor 2.

- when running the latest FPU (!) build on the Tabor it reaches up to 40 fps (!) (old OS version, first fpu-emu).

- when running the latest FPU build on the sam460ex it reaches up to 40 fps.
So the Tabor is even en par with the sam460 if running the version which is incompatible with its FPU :)

And before you say sth. a la "then you optimized away most fpu instructions"...
Wrong, think, man, think - and don't forget that the SPE build runs twice as fast... Yeah, the SPE is a pretty fast FPU unit indeed, but looking at the emu-speed that whole A1222 delivers (y)

Still anybody out there making up stories about the A1222's performance compared to the SAMs or about the power of the SPE? LOL

--- End ---

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outrun1978 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 10:59:54
#102 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@thread

Sam or Tabor? First of all its nice to seee Acube fill a gap in the market, its probably needed if am honest. Having had a Sam 460 previously expect a few niggles, especally when it comes to emulation of classic software and video playback, I'd definately invest in an SSD drive to speed thing up a little. Its also a lot cheaper than when I picked one up years ago.

As for the A1222, its nice and performs well, but as others have pointed out already you will get the Sam next month.

I'd say if you wanted a budget option to run Linux or MorphOS in addition to AmigaOS, then the Sam is probably your better option.

The Amiga scene's biggest problem is something like Raspberry Pi 400 which i am tapping away on today and has been given to me as a Christmas present this year. Its less than £100 for the complete set and have to say it is a much snappier machine than a stock Raspberry Pi 4. Have already been able to play a few 3DO and N64 games via Retroarch with zero stutter. Web browsing is really good. 1080p video playback is rock solid too with a few tweaks and I haven't even overclocked the machine yet. Its barely gone above 37 degrees in the case too according to the temperature monitor.

The day someone decides to port AmigaOS or MorphOS to this fantastic little machine the healthier the Amiga scene will become.

After the year we have all had, its also nice to find that something like this is made in the UK and not in China.

Last edited by outrun1978 on 25-Dec-2020 at 12:22 PM.
Last edited by outrun1978 on 25-Dec-2020 at 12:22 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 11:19:59
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@AP

I expect Tower 57 is not pure FPU benchmark (unlike lame). Performance is of course application dependent, but claiming SPE is generally faster than 440/460 FPU is far from truth as we have reliable benchmarks proving otherwise. It would be really interesting to know performance in heavy raw power scenario (eg. Quake 3).

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Rose 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 11:34:07
#104 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@AP

In his benchmark A1222 is also twice as fast as i5 so I would take it with this.



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AP 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 11:37:59
#105 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@pavlor: It´s not a pure FPU-benchmark, but according to Daniel Müßener the game makes heavy use of the FPU.

I wouldn't say that SPE is generally faster than Sams FPU either, but in some cases (like this game) the performance is at least not so bad at all. Also the FPU-emulation in AOS4 (Trampolin) does a good job in this case.

A Quake-benchmark would be fine, but we have to wait till Tabor/A1222Plus is public available.

Do you have a source for the lame-benchmark?




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AP 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 11:45:38
#106 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@Rose: Thats because he optimised the code for Amiga-systems obviously much more than the coder for the PC/Windows-port.

Note that running the same code on Tabor and SAM460 is on par although tabor uses FPU-emulation. So the argument, that SPE is so much slower and Tabor is crippled because of the missing FPU can't be true in general.

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Rose 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 11:48:37
#107 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@AP

Or painfully obvious difference on GFX cards. 2.3Ghz i5 in Sony Vaio, CPU integrated graphics anyone?

What cards were used on Tabor and SAM?

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pavlor 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 13:17:29
#108 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@AP

Quote:
Do you have a source for the lame-benchmark?


Post 283

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AP 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 13:37:24
#109 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@Rose: According to Daniel the GPU wasn't that relevant, but of course it's a matter to consider, too.

What he made for sure was a lot of work in optimising the code, Tower57 is even playable on a SAM440ep.

Last edited by AP on 25-Dec-2020 at 01:56 PM.

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AP 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 13:52:54
#110 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@pavlor: Thank you for the link.

In this case the benchmark was with different operating systems (AmigaOS4 and Linux) and maybe different versions of LAME. For a more authentic test-case it should be the same version of LAME on the same OS. And we have also to consider, that only a small part of AmigaOS4-software is using a FPU after all, so integer-performance is at least as important as the whole FPU-stuff.

Anyway we need really more benchmarks for a fair comparison, Integer- and FPU-related to get the whole picture. Maybe I can help as I plan to write an article about A1222Plus for the Amiga Future magazine.

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OlafS25 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 14:35:33
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@AP

Tabor is a complete system whereas the new batch of SAMs are based on the cost-reduced version from 2014, graphic, sound and SATA is missing

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AP 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 15:37:59
#112 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@OlafS25: As there are no drivers for the onboard-graphic (at least not public) and its more like a frame buffer you need an GPU für Tabor, too.

But I don´t know what you mean in the context of benchmarks and FPU-speed?

Last edited by AP on 25-Dec-2020 at 03:39 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 15:39:45
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@AP

Latest OS4 (FE U2) has drivers for Tabor´s DIU (at least it is mentioned in the supplied guide).

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AP 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 15:42:38
#114 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@pavlor: Oh, I missed this. I hadn't time to download and install the update for AmigaOS4.1 FE by now.

While the onboard-GPU of Tabor isn't that great it's a nice option.

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OlafS25 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 15:45:12
#115 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@AP

that there are additional costs because it is not a full system

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AP 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 15:48:23
#116 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@AP

that there are additional costs because it is not a full system


True, but where did I mention that this isn't the case?
Maybe you referring to another comment?

I discussed benchmarks and FPU-speed before...

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OlafS25 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 15:52:09
#117 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@AP

Oh I only wanted a general remark because perhaps not everyone is aware of it. It is not specific directed to you

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AP 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 16:01:11
#118 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@OlafS25: Ok, got it.

For the general question "SAM460 or Tabor" it's of course a point to consider. But the discussion is a little bit academic at the moment as we don't know when Tabor will be available for a broader audience and what are the costs for the board then. Benchmarks would be also a good thing to compare.

For me A1222Plus is more interesting, but it's good tho have choices. Fore someone who isn't on the pre-order list or is tired of waiting the SAM460 is worth the money, especially with this special-offer. I owned ACube-hardware in the past and the general quality and support is really good.


Last edited by AP on 25-Dec-2020 at 04:02 PM.

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bison 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 25-Dec-2020 16:41:28
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@outrun1978

Quote:
The day someone decides to port AmigaOS or MorphOS to this fantastic little machine the healthier the Amiga scene will become.

Indeed. It's a very nice system. One can only imagine what the 500 will be like.

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dooz 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 26-Dec-2020 8:00:59
#120 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Jul-2013
Posts: 48
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Rob

Quote:
and code compiled for SPE will beat the Sam460 hands down


Even native SPE FPU in e500 core is slower than 440/460 FPU (at least in lame benchmark - comparable to 800 MHz 460EX). Integer performance is of course faster than SAM.


I must point out that P1022 from A1222 is a combined embedded SIMD/FPU unit, not just FPU. If somebody start to use that SIMD unit it would be interesting to see performance gain.

From the manual:
P1022 SPE (Signal Processing Engine) unit from A1222 is a 64-bit, two element, single-instruction multiple-data (SIMD) ISA. SPE can execute floating point and vector instructions.

-dooz

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