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      /  Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
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Hypex 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 15-Sep-2017 18:20:56
#201 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10571
From: Greensborough, Australia

@tlosm

It's the same for Debian. Because of that damned yaboot loader. Certainly not coded for a Mac. I don't know where it came from. It's like it was coded just to provide a bootloader for testing until the real thing came along. But they left it there. GRUB is on PowerPC so I wonder why Debian or Ubuntu never used that?

My scissor joke refers to the fw cutter. Some guy decided that non-free firmware in the Linux kernel was a bug and reported it. I wouldn't say it is a bug but another issue, since they lacked source, but the binary wouldn't match the host CPU either so having source doeesn't really make sense that way. They took notice and removed it. So on platforms like Mac, both PPC and Intel, it will break. Strange that hardware is missing a ROM. On PPC it can be bad as it can halt the boot process. I recall I could only use 10.04 a few years back as all the newer distros just broke and wouldn't boot.

This filters down the line and stuffed up my A1 Linux installer as newer distros refuse to boot without the firmware. Well that, KMS and DRM needs to be active. And Gnome won't accept old Radeon R200 3d hardware. All major distros lack non-free firmware. So depending on your hardware, Linux may or may not break. On Apple it is almost certain to break. Unless you locate an alternative installer with non-free firmware included.

Last edited by Hypex on 15-Sep-2017 at 06:23 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 15-Sep-2017 18:39:44
#202 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2722
From: Amiga land

@Hypex

are rebuild verision of debian sid for mac hardware. rightnow there is the sid test made from Adrian a Debian geek for ppc32/ppc64 of last debian.
In any way im hacking more my g5 ... i just put a marvel sata 3 board on it (4x slot) perfect know by linux and unknow but looklike fixable by osx. the same board i had been used on X5000 i will see how much will be here the transfer rate.

About distros and firmare it is because on x86 there are the aglx drivers made by hw houses (amd,intel,nvidia so so) only on ppc we need the firmare installed or we will goes only in of only .

the trick is to find the firmware and copy it in /lib/firmware of the distro or build a kernel with firmware inside.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Srtest 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 16-Sep-2017 23:00:50
#203 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 258
From: Israel, Haderah

@tlosm 

Do you recommend I install a 64 bit distro on the X1k? does it offer any advantages if I use a SI card? I know hou to do it (I think) I just don't want to...

@wawa

Who said linux is bloated? I didn't. That is your word. I don't think it's bloated, just that when you take the barebones linux and, let us say, you want something that kde does really well, the implementaion becomes that of a tank. And if you have a tank you need an engine of a tank. So what? for the sake of being "light" I need to let go of (for example) Audacious because it needs all those dependencies? And I'm not talking specifically about the program but about the window manager and its complatibily with it and also the desktop and the way you browse files/drawer and drag'n'drop etc etc. Eventually you get layers on top of layers but some of them are natural if you want this software suite or whatever. It just needs to go through all that stuff every time, and when the compatibilty is not there you have another layer of issues.

That is why I like LXQt - it doesn't say it's lightweight. It just offer you a standard gui&desktop that is quite reasonable in the balance between usability and efficiancy. The issues are different - compatibilty with our systems and a certain lack of a push in development. It is missing some basic stuff yet I still prefer it, not to mention my fondness of Qt which I can also appreciate on aos4.1. Someone made some fundamental stuff in the right way in Qt, at least from my limited user-based perspective.

Now, if I think linux is a tank (one last time with the militaristic analogies - I promise), you would think that that is pretty stable. I beg to differ. Yes, as a system you don't lose the entire system on a crash. However any user which is just slightly less informed than I (and I'm not a linux guru) won't know what to do when a program crash means he needs to go to the console, shutdown the logon manager like lightdm and then restart it. So yes from that perspective it is more stable. On the aos side, you can lose everything and of course aos4.1 could and should be more stable. However its simplistic approach to moving between tasks and programs makes the user more aware and the user starts to use the system in a more stable way. Ideally, the user doesn't need to think about all that stuff. Well, on the so called stable linux (I'll give it the credit of being robust), the user has a false feeling of being secure until he is required to recover the session.

* Bear in mind I'm not the right guy to pass judegement on such a large system and base as linux. Those are observations of an amiga-minded guy who knows what he likes.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 16-Sep-2017 23:03:56
#204 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2722
From: Amiga land

@Srtest

Quote:
Do you recommend I install a 64 bit distro on the X1k? does it offer any advantages if I use a SI card? I know hou to do it (I think) I just don't want to...


No Si on powerpc Be it mean on 64 or 32 is the same the only way for have 3d acceleration partial working is with NI.
Note on x5000 fedora ppc64 have worst prerformances compared the ppc32 distros, on g5 quad i have the opposite situation.

Last edited by tlosm on 16-Sep-2017 at 11:06 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Srtest 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 16-Sep-2017 23:09:31
#205 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 258
From: Israel, Haderah

@tlosm

Are there any advantages to software implenetations/renderers on 64 bit vs 32 bit? does llvm works better (or at all on BE) ?

I once tried OpenSuse instead of Lubuntu and it had advantages other than being a chore to configure and it just stopped working for me after a cerain kernel update.

Last edited by Srtest on 16-Sep-2017 at 11:14 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 16-Sep-2017 23:20:19
#206 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2722
From: Amiga land

@Srtest

On G5 i use fedora ppc64 as my main linux os, on x5000 main os was ubuntu mate 16.04.
because on x5000 fedora was more choppy than ubuntu mate.
for sure fedora is upgraded distro. now im testing fedora server 26 PPC64 on Quad.
have an upgraded distro is for sure better than use a dead distro (ubuntu BE)
NOw is in testing Debian PPC64. i will gave a try to it in next days, Just upgraded my quad an ssd and a sata controller took from my x5000/40

Last edited by tlosm on 16-Sep-2017 at 11:20 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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khayoz 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 17-Sep-2017 0:48:04
#207 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2004
Posts: 212
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@Raffaele

You have to see it as an investment

Split up ¤2000 over 10 years, 0,55 a day!
Why 10 years? Well I have my A1micro still working 12 years later.

Time flies, live the one and only life you got!

Last edited by khayoz on 17-Sep-2017 at 12:50 AM.
Last edited by khayoz on 17-Sep-2017 at 12:50 AM.

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K-L 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 17-Sep-2017 3:08:14
#208 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1393
From: Oullins, France

@khayoz

Exactly !

And to answer the initial question : yes, the X5000 does worth the price when used with AmigaOS 4.1

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 17-Sep-2017 4:35:26
#209 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2722
From: Amiga land

@khayoz

if like this my amiga 4000 that was over upgraded prize me less in 24 years.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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Beans 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 17-Sep-2017 15:38:18
#210 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@tlosm

The A4000 you made the mistake of selling?
What WERE you thinking, man?

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 17-Sep-2017 16:37:43
#211 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2722
From: Amiga land

@Beans

was need money for buy the x5000 the worst choice of my file

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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TRIPOS 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 17-Sep-2017 18:28:40
#212 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1182
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote:
@Beans

was need money for buy the x5000 the worst choice of my file


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pavlor 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 17-Sep-2017 19:55:14
#213 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9357
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Selling A4000? Really bad choice. I feel your loss.

My A1200 may collect dust right now, but no other hardware will really replace it, not even the A1222 I want to buy as soon as possible.

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Antique 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 17-Sep-2017 22:41:02
#214 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2005
Posts: 887
From: Norway

@pavlor
That's no loss. I've sold 2 A4k's.. Long time ago, but still.
Quote:

@tlosm

Selling A4000? Really bad choice. I feel your loss.

My A1200 may collect dust right now, but no other hardware will really replace it, not even the A1222 I want to buy as soon as possible.

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BigD 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 18-Sep-2017 12:00:32
#215 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6311
From: UK

@Antique

As long as you have peace that you'll never be able to replace them unless you pay at least four times the amount you sold them for it I guess it doesn't matter. If however we sell our old machines to hoarders/collectors then no one gets to use them ever again! That's more of a concern IMHO.

Last edited by BigD on 18-Sep-2017 at 12:01 PM.

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Raffaele 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 18-Sep-2017 19:05:31
#216 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

@khayoz

Quote:

khayoz wrote:


Title is a clickbait to present thread regarding what issues TLOSM found on X5000.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

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ferrels 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 18-Sep-2017 20:12:17
#217 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 884
From: Arizona

@khayoz

Quote:
You have to see it as an investment Split up ¤2000 over 10 years, 0,55 a day!


You must be joking. Investments are supposed to give you a positive return. Why would I "invest" 2000 only to lose .55 every day over 10 years? It isn't like he's going to be able to sell that hardware from more than 2000 after it depreciates over 10 years.

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BCP 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 18-Sep-2017 22:22:50
#218 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2003
Posts: 184
From: Indianapolis, IN USA

@ferrels

One could say that buying any computer is an investment (as least in terms of the utility you get from it) and all computers decrease in value over time. Although I dare say the you could sell a 10 year old AmigaOne XE for far more than almost any 10 year old windows computer.

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AmigaOne X1000 & Amiga 4000

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ferrels 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 18-Sep-2017 23:02:18
#219 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 884
From: Arizona

@BCP


Yes, that is true. NG Amigas certainly hold their value better than commodity PCs. After owning my PegII for 3 years I was able to sell it for almost what I had paid for it. For a 3 year old PC you almost have to pay someone to haul it away. So while I wouldn't call an NG Amiga a "great" investment, you can at least come close to breaking even on them.

Last edited by ferrels on 18-Sep-2017 at 11:03 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Is X5000 worth its price? Too many issues and limits...
Posted on 18-Sep-2017 23:42:46
#220 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2722
From: Amiga land

@ferrels

Quote:
NG Amiga a "great" investment

... sorry but an investment for me is a classic amiga . NG amiga not too much. you will see how much will prize sam 460 second hand when tabor will exit.

Last edited by tlosm on 18-Sep-2017 at 11:44 PM.

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I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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