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tlosm 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 12-Sep-2017 14:32:11
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2562
From: Amiga land

@AmigaBlitter

Hyperion, did and gave their max support .
the guy are making their best ... but is not an hyperion fault if linux not performing good , but only an hardware limitations or a really poor and bad uboot,kernel and dtb integration.

like i say is the best amigaos machine in cpu performances ... but for me a machine is not only for amigaos.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 12-Sep-2017 14:37:13
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3402
From: Unknown

@tlosm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i57NZb9Q0UE



seems a beast machine

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 12-Sep-2017 14:39:22
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3402
From: Unknown

@tslom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV9AMyWP6Mg

read the comments


I don't quite remember who's the guy who posted these videos we are all about enthusiastic.



P.S.

I think that you are a great beta tester.

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 12-Sep-2017 at 02:49 PM.
Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 12-Sep-2017 at 02:44 PM.
Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 12-Sep-2017 at 02:43 PM.

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Beans 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 12-Sep-2017 14:42:51
#64 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@tlosm

Cooling issues are a problem on Mark Olsen's X5000/20 development system.

And since cooling=longevity, my first inclination on a production system would be to improve on it.

But, the X5000/40 is not available as a production item yet, so if it needs improved cooling, I'm sure Aeon will address it.

Regardless, I LIKE your idea of improving cooling, be it via water cooling or conventional air cooling.

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tlosm 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 12-Sep-2017 15:02:45
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2562
From: Amiga land

@Beans

Quote:
Cooling issues are a problem on Mark Olsen's X5000/20 development system.


umm that strange what revision was the board of bigfoot?


Quote:
the X5000/40 is not available as a production item yet, so if it needs improved cooling, I'm sure Aeon will address it.


will see because the dissipator and the fan are not sufficient for the 5040 that have exactly the same 5020 dissipator and fan


Quote:
Regardless, I LIKE your idea of improving cooling, be it via water cooling or conventional air cooling


the only problem will be found some perfectly compatible with it, and have to be suggested by a-eon

Last edited by tlosm on 12-Sep-2017 at 03:10 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 12-Sep-2017 at 03:04 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 12-Sep-2017 15:09:11
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2562
From: Amiga land

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i57NZb9Q0UE

seems a beast machine


i know my videos ... on quad i can open 48 Darkplaces



Quote:
don't quite remember who's the guy who posted these videos we are all about enthusiastic. I


was a persons who hope and made the max for this machine

Quote:
I think that you are a great beta tester


i was a tester ...

Last edited by tlosm on 12-Sep-2017 at 03:12 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 12-Sep-2017 at 03:11 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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TrevorDick 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 12-Sep-2017 15:19:17
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2650
From: Wellington

@Beans

"Cooling issues are a problem on Mark Olsen's X5000/20 development system."

IIRC there were no cooling problems with Mark's machine. I'm sure he will correct me if I remembered incorrectly. Like me, he did not like the noisy fan that was on the beta P5020 board so he replaced it. I did the same myself and added a Silent 6, which is the fan now supplied with all the production boards.

TrevorD



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tlosm 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 12-Sep-2017 16:55:09
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2562
From: Amiga land

@AmigaBlitter

when you will decide to sold it sam mini let me know. i can say for sure was one of the best machine that i had .. and i had two the 5xx mhz and the 6xx mhz

Last edited by tlosm on 12-Sep-2017 at 04:55 PM.

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I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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AmigaBlitter 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 12-Sep-2017 18:07:46
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3402
From: Unknown

@tlosm

"when you will decide to sold it sam mini let me know. i can say for sure was one of the best machine that i had .. and i had two the 5xx mhz and the 6xx mhz"

it's a special sam. The machine has been assembled directly by Enrico Vidale (Acube) at Pianeta Amiga

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kas1e 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 6:20:43
#70 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3281
From: Russia

@tlosm
Yeah, i can understand disappointment, but you should know it all from begining that it all home business without much of developers involved.

I for myself asking 3-4 times in all places where i can report uboot bugs and suggestions, but even if i dont get any answer i understand that working on uboot after it "kind of works ok already" not priority, and i just move on. For example, i report that my dvd-rom arent seen in uboot menu, but it stll boot os4cd and it working from os. No one asking about details, no one trying to fix it, no one show that there is any interest to work on uboot more, so i move on as well. Taking aside suggestions (like can be cool to have same old red pointer as on classic amiga controlled by mouse).. So, there cleary no interest about working on x5k version of uboot after it kind of works.

And that problem with slow memory access to gfx and main memory wasnt consider as priority to fix, which is of course strange.

And os4 development itself slow like hell, and so on, BUT we all know from begining that it will be like this. At least i did't disappointed as when i get x5k i already know for what and what i will do with, even with such state. So all should know, and dont praise holy friendly boingball(s) :)

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kas1e 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 6:26:05
#71 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3281
From: Russia

Btw, as for cooling issues, i power up my x5k much less, as once i power it up, after few minuts everyone in house can heard how all those coolers from gfx card, cpu card, tower itself start their dance. After you use modern notebooks which just works almost without noise, its hard to compare :) maybe if making some water cooling for all the parts in, but .. That again mean those ugly deals with soldeng iron and co which i for myself have enough with a1200 .

And, in end of all, there is less and less ppls with energy and motivation to not just talk, but doing something, but that is expected too. In other words everything happens as it was expected by anyone :)

Last edited by kas1e on 13-Sep-2017 at 06:30 AM.

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tlosm 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 7:19:51
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2562
From: Amiga land

@kas1e

The issue is:
Linux and Amigaos work in different way. Amigaos is much more uboot related.
pratically much better is uboot much better is amigaos.
Linux need good uboot but not in the same way like it is needed by amigaos.

This is why have slow gfx performance made me much think it is not an uboot related problem is just because this machine cant made better than this.

The 4x slot alone on the x5000 use one dma channel for it and one pcie controller of the P50xx
the other slots (all) use another dma channel and one pcie controller..

about dvdrom issue i have this experiece:
linux kernel report me many fpdma issue on the sata1 if there is attached on it the dvdrom.
if i swap the dvdrom on the sata0 this issue is not present.
what did the fpdma issue pratically reset everytime the sata1 port for try to reset the dvdrom and made the dvdrom rotate the disk for ever without reading it.
This issue isnt present on sii pci board and on marvel pcie board.



about the machine:
what made me really nevrous about this hardaware is the bad ram performances that for me is one of the reason of the worst desktop experience i have on linux. the rigth speed for 5040 have to be not less then 8 Gb/s transfer rate considering the overall cpu performances and not 3.7Gb/s in the best condition.
if you consider the ddr3 1600 run at 22 Gb/s you understand why from very beginning i write about bootle neck system on x5000 thread on hyperio forum. but this is not an os4 only related issue.



Quote:
And that problem with slow memory access to gfx and main memory wasnt consider as priority to fix, which is of course strange.


because cant be better than what you have now.

about what i was expecting from this machine... what made me really sed is how all was managed by a-eon.

and i repeat and will repeat 4ever hyperion made the best, and do the best for their resources and time.

Last edited by tlosm on 13-Sep-2017 at 07:21 AM.

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kas1e 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 8:19:45
#73 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3281
From: Russia

@tlosm

You still on vox syndrome. You just exchange aeon with hyperion, like you still need anyone to be proud of. Belive me, hyperion have a loot of issues as well. As anyone else. There is no one to blame, or to be proud of. Also those "i will repeat 4ever".. Man, how can you know what you will think after few years, taking aside 10 years ?

I just feel how close rage quit is. It was the same with anyone who has to much hope for anyones moves and motivies. Result will be always the same : disappoinment.

I mean comon, are you need to be fanboy of anyone ? Be it aeon, or hyperion, or amigaos or shmoboOS. Take the truth, choice right pills! :)

Last edited by kas1e on 13-Sep-2017 at 08:24 AM.
Last edited by kas1e on 13-Sep-2017 at 08:21 AM.

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wawa 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 8:43:06
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6140
From: Unknown

@kas1e

Quote:
hyperion have a loot of issues as well.


actually, according to what he posts, he thinks hyperion is doing fine;) its aeon he has a problem with.

Quote:
not a priority.. move on


it is fine for folks that, as we here, hang around for decades and know what to expect. (well, do we? the current thread seems to indicate otherwise..). but imagine someone who just sees some review somewhere on the net, where it is advertised as a regular product, with a complete infrastructure and support. i have my doubts if it is fair like that.

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tlosm 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 8:47:02
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2562
From: Amiga land

@wawa

Quote:
actually, according to what he posts, he thinks hyperion is doing fine;) its aeon he has a problem with.


what they can do better if some things come because the hardware?

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tlosm 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 8:50:03
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2562
From: Amiga land

@kas1e

i think you need some pills ... because
first the crappy machine is not made by hyperion
second and i will continue to say 4ever what hyperion can do if the hardware is crappy? miracles?
try you to take some pills probably a-eon will make miracles for you instead of hyperion.
remember to not take pills after you drink vodka.

edit: the uboot is made by varisys and a-eon if uboot is shitty like i wrote before amigaos will be more shitty ... ask a-eon for issue to uboot and related things and not hyperion and drink less vodka in the morning.

Last edited by tlosm on 13-Sep-2017 at 09:07 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 13-Sep-2017 at 09:07 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 13-Sep-2017 at 08:53 AM.

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Georg 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 10:19:36
#77 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 435
From: Unknown

Quote:
And that problem with slow memory access to gfx and main memory


Gfx memory access on PCIE is very slow if done with cpu (instead of DMA). Also on PCs. Yes, can be even slower than AGP.

Try this with Linux on PC (and elsewhere) by using cpu-only "fbdev" X11 gfx driver instead of normal accelerated driver. And by disabling shadow framebuffer (Option "ShadowFB"), otherwise the fb driver defaults to use a double buffered copy of the display in RAM, to avoid the especially slow reads from VRAM.

Then you can benchmark it with "x11perf -putimage500" and "x11perf -getimage500". On a 32 bit or 24 bit screen (4 bytes per pixel) the results ("/sec") == million bytes per second transfer rate (500x500x4=1000000).

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tlosm 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 10:29:51
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2562
From: Amiga land

@Georg

Quote:
Try this with Linux on PC (and elsewhere) by using cpu-only "fbdev" X11 gfx driver instead of normal accelerated driver. And by disabling shadow framebuffer (Option "ShadowFB"), otherwise the fb driver defaults to use a double buffered copy of the display in RAM, to avoid the especially slow reads from VRAM.


i did it Grog, with same gpu on G5 and X5000 on x5000 i have all worst in fbdev.

example on mate 16.10 whit same mesa version in swrast and fbdev
on g5 i can move windows and are responsive i can browse internet with firefox system is usable.
on x5000 when i move mouse windows follow the mouse after one second and i see the graphic components refreshing. Im sure this is because the slow ram compared the g5

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wawa 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 10:38:49
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6140
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:
pills after vodka


yummie!

but, is it necessary to be insulting?

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tlosm 
Re: first experiment of x5000 on qemu
Posted on 13-Sep-2017 10:50:57
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2562
From: Amiga land

@wawa

for me is not necessary but if some one use that words with me i reply with the same money

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