@clebin

Quote:

These are the Photoshop and Quark users who kept Apple afloat through some - you don't upset those people...

They can afford to upset them now as the majority of their profits come from phones! Style (or thin aluminium at all costs) over substance has become a disease for them! That's why they allowed a thermally limited Mac Pro to be launched in 2013 which looked great but could only be set up in a dual graphics card configuration due to heat issues of a single hot and powerful graphics card!

It is also why the MacBook Pro machines have been watered down to the point of irrelevance! 90% of Apple machines are for cool aid drinking, Starbucks WiFi loving, casual users rather than the designers and graphics people they used to rely on! The Final Cut Pro X debacle is another case in point. You'd be better off using Adobe Premiere on a PC Workstation for video editing rather than upgrade to the almighty 'X'!

They destroy their own markets because they would prefer to focus on their bigger casual markets. Maybe they should spin off their 'computer' business as they quite frankly don't give a damn about it in the big scheme of things. Whether they have a 'delete' key or not is the least of their problems

Last edited by BigD on 14-Sep-2017 at 11:27 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@thread
Apple is certainly pretentious, there's no denying that. But can you really blame them?
Look at their market cap. Look at the amount of people worldwide that are using Apple products and services. They're not forcing anyone to buy anything, and they're certainly not giving things away for free, yet most companies would be over themselves if they had the success of even their least successful product.

Being a '70s kid, I am no longer the target market for Apple products. What they think is Pro is not the same as what I think is Pro. What features they think are important are not the same...well you get the point.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but as far as I'm concerned no one, not Samsung, not Apple, not Microsoft, not Sony, not Intel, AMD, IBM, HP or Google: None of them are doing anything interesting or worthwhile. Then again, they're public companies and they're responsible to the shareholders. It's not their job to move the human race forward in great leaps and bounds.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@Daedalus

Daedalus, do you have anger mangement issues?


I'm genuinely schocked and bewildered that my little post aroused such an outcry

Skimping over your bookreport it seems like you're accusing me that I state my opinion as facts, which I did not.
I made a observation and gave my opinion.

Quote:

"but I THINK Cmd + Delete or Cmd + D would be a lot more straightforward"

Quote:

"which I THINK is Apple's target audience"

I never stated anything as a fact.

I though that the mainstream appeal of Mac's were that they "just work"
(Can't find the original commercial and I disagree with the video title)

Therefor I personally find it odd when a key named Delete can't be used to delete a file but something rather hidden to a windows user, it isn't like Cmd + BS and Delete can't coexist with eachother.

I personally thought that Apple would like to have some measurements to make a non-techsavy windows user feel faster at home.

Quote:

"And funny, when I got OS4, one of the first things I did was to change the shortcut for deleting files from Amiga-D to Amiga-Delete, but that's just my personal preference."

Cool, I respect that, no two humans are exactly the same and prevents the world from becoming a boring gray blob.

Maybe you should do the same and not accuse someone else for being a self centered asshole for having a different view.

Quote:

"You are not all users"

And you need to grow some skin.

Quote:

"Look, it's clear you don't like them, and that's ok. Nobody is forcing you to buy one."

Damn, you got it all figured out.

Seriously wtf, me questioning some hoykeys combination decisions apparently makes me instantly the worlds biggest Apple hater and Bill Gates' number one admirer.

You are constantly reading way too deep into things and you're painting me as an enemy of sorts.

Daedalus, my sincere apology for questioning the use of a Delete key and in my personal opinion that is wholly mine and does not represent anyone else
I found pretentious that it couldn't be used to delete a file considering that the majority of Mac users came after Steve Jobs returned and he reeled them from the Windows pond.


I hope haven't ruined your week and I hope you don't see yourself in the bathroom mirrior or else you would make a argument with yourself and eventually pass from starvation.

_________________
Best way to enjoy Amiga is without the community

@Trewq

Quote:

My personal favorite is "Cmd + backspace" to delete a file, while the offical Apple keyboards have a key labeled Delete.

My desktop at work does, but the laptops don't, as someone else pointed out. But that's still pretty strange because the official workaround for Delete on a Mac keyboard is Fn+Backspace. So it really doesn't make sense to use Cmd+backspace for "delete a folder."

But you've reminded me that this strange design has a double meaning that can backfire on you. How?

Cmd+backspace also means to delete all words on the line before the cursor; i.e., ordinarily when I type "goodbye, cruel world", place the cursor after the word "cruel", and hit Cmd+backspace, it deletes "goodbye, cruel". (I just tested it now to be sure.)

So sometimes I want to save a file, and the save dialog opens up, and I start to type a multi-word name, then notice a typo at the beginning, and hit Cmd+backspace. Do you think it deletes the previous words on the line?

Nope. Deletes the folder I wanted to save to. (I just tested that now, too -- on a folder I created for the purpose.) This has happened to me multiple times. I can recover, but it was terrifying the first time I noticed it, which I don't think was the first time I did it, natch.

The old Apple (of Tog days) would never have done something so stupid. They did other stupid things instead, like produce bogus studies claiming that reaching your hand to the mouse, moving to the menu, and clicking on the right menu item was always, [i]always[/] faster than using Cmd-key shortcuts ("Tog on Design"). But at least they left the Cmd-key shortcuts.

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I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@Daedalus

Quote:

Ummm... Not on their laptops they don't, and that's possibly their most popular keyboard format. Besides, having a qualifier helps prevent nasty accidents.

I agree on the laptop. As for the qualifier preventing nasty accidents, they chose the wrong one. See my reply to Trewq on how Cmd+Backspace actually creates nasty accidents.

_________________
I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@simplex & Thread

For goodness sake guys, should we advocate that people sell all their Apple shares because of keyboard layouts and shortcuts? Apple added 2 button mouse support a decade ago which is a mini-miracle. They are not progressive in this area and would prefer to invest in touch bars and gesture controls rather than change the old ways directly. No doubt we'll be manipulating projected holograms in Apple's amazing future

The main issues with Apple are the basics; the software cannot be simply lifted from iOS and injected into OSX as they are different tools that require different paradigms for example. I will use Mac Game support as an example. This was an area of improvement and growth that they have severely dropped the ball with on the Mac because it makes more money to cater for the iOS casual gamers! Metal and Metal 2 Graphics APIs might be sufficient on iOS but Mac Games Developers NEED OpenGL support as a minimum and they have really dropped the ball with this!

All the good will and progress since the Intel switch over has been lost because they couldn't accept and compromise and update OpenGL to the latest versions at the same time as developing Metal!!!! They are so ridiculously anal in this area. It lead to Frontier pulling support for Elite: Dangerous add on Horizons (because of limited shader support in the lowly Apple supported OpenGL version) and has led to the Mac again being seen as a laughing stock. MacOS High Sierra is attempting to turn the tide with Metal 2 and support for VR and external GPUs but it is far too little too late. OpenGL updates would have been a simple solution for the last 8 years!

Last edited by BigD on 14-Sep-2017 at 01:15 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@daveyw

Quote:

it really irks me that people forget just how big an impact Apple had in computing in the late 70s. Computers transformed from being (a) strange, alien machines only accesible to big corporations or academic institutions or (b) arcane hobbyist projects to being everyday appliances like the TV or fridge, and it was the Apple II that made that happen.

That's not entirely correct.

The Apple II came out the same year as the TRS-80 Model I and the Commodore PET, and the TRS-80 at least was actually more successful for several years (at least according to Dr. Wikipedia). The PET must have been pretty successful, too, otherwise there would have been no C64 and certainly no Amiga (not from Commodore, anyway).

The reason people remember Apple and forget Tandy seems to be that (a) Apple aimed brilliantly at the education market, so that back in the mid- to late-80s at least my high school library & computer club had Apple IIe's hanging about, and (b) when the mid-80s and it really was time to move on from the Z80 and the 6809, Tandy Corp. couldn't make up their mind what they wanted to do after the TRS-80 line and so they strangled their home-grown boxes and turned into Yet Another PC Manufacturer, having success for about another decade before throwing in the towel.

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I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@BigD

Quote:

For goodness sake guys, should we advocate that people sell all their Apple shares because of keyboard layouts and shortcuts?

Of course not. We should advocate that people sell all their Apple shares because of keyboard layouts, shortcuts, and the use of a microkernel that gave microkernels a bad name. Oh, also neglecting their desktop OS while chasing the mobile market, and apparently learning nothing from their failure to take over the desktop market in the mid- to late-80s (overpriced, closed systems (MacOS/iOS) as opposed to affordable, open systems (PC-compatible/Android)).

_________________
I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@BigD

Quote:

They can afford to upset them now as the majority of their profits come from phones! Style (or thin aluminium at all costs) over substance has become a disease for them! That's why they allowed a thermally limited Mac Pro to be launched in 2013 which looked great but could only be set up in a dual graphics card configuration due to heat issues of a single hot and powerful graphics card!

They've let down the power users massively in the past few years. I think they realise it after that big apology about the trashcan Mac Pro and how they're working on a better Mac Pro.

That was really un-Apple because they never reveal their roadmap in advance and they never apologise for anything. I think even they realised how upset Mac users were and how they couldn't wait another 6 months to stem the damage.

Hopefully we'll see a proper Mac Pro in the next year, one that's worth of the name and not that crappy unexpandable trashcan. I know it's not all rosy though - the Mac Mini remains shamefully neglected and I miss the brillaint XServes taht we used to use to power our website.