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/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  Possible to reproduce the A1200?
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AmigaMac 
Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 9-Dec-2017 16:01:25
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1057
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

That very question has been nagging me lately.

The question is... with all the various projects developing classic Amiga hardware and components from the likes of Individual Computers, Elbox, remnants of the NATAMI project (Apollo?), etc... is it possible to reproduce an Amiga A1200 collectively that could support both the classic Amiga operating system (3.9 and earlier) as well as OS4, MorphOS, etc... with the addition of PowerPC accelerator boards, etc...?

The purpose of this post is for thoughtful discussion

Last edited by AmigaMac on 09-Dec-2017 at 04:02 PM.

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cip060 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 9-Dec-2017 16:21:23
#2 ]
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Joined: 19-Oct-2016
Posts: 21
From: Unknown

@AmigaMac

I understand that a new motherboard at 1200 is provided by Individual computer

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OneTimer1 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 9-Dec-2017 17:35:13
#3 ]
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Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 644
From: Unknown

@AmigaMac

Quote:

The question is... with all the various projects developing classic Amiga hardware
... is it possible to reproduce an Amiga A1200 ... that could support both the classic Amiga operating system (3.9 and earlier) ...


Yes this would be possible, but some have produced (or announced) something better than a 'naked' A1200.

You can buy a Mist here: http://amigastore.eu/en/318-mist-fpga-computer.html or wait for the Apollo/VampireV4 (Stand alone version).


Quote:

that could suppor ... OS4, MorphOS, etc... with the addition of PowerPC accelerator boards, etc...?


What's missing is a cheap PPC system but AOS4, MorphOS or PPC-Linux don't need the Amiga hardware and PPC hardware built in small numbers, will be weaker and more expensive than used PPC-Macs.


Last edited by OneTimer1 on 09-Dec-2017 at 10:25 PM.

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retro 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 9-Dec-2017 21:00:05
#4 ]
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Joined: 16-Dec-2003
Posts: 1042
From: Unknown

it is possible but who has the money ??? i think wee are better of with the vampyer v4 standalone.. anyway there is sonnc's ppc pci cards

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Yssing 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 9-Dec-2017 23:12:43
#5 ]
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Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1040
From: Unknown

@cip060

Quote:
I understand that a new motherboard at 1200 is provided by Individual computer


I will believe when I see it.
Remember the Colne-A he promissed so long ago.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 1:11:58
#6 ]
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Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 644
From: Unknown

Quote:

Yssing wrote:

Remember the Colne-A he promissed so long ago.


Maybe Schönfeld's Clone-A made another impression in German forums.

Jens was showing his Clone-A Amiga500 chip set around on some meetings and told people about investors he was searching for a game related product, maybe an A500 in a Joystick case.

It seems he never got these investors but he produced the Chameleon http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Chameleon , a FPGA hardware that could be used with the Minimig core (not with a Clone-A core)

And he has announced the 'Commodore A1200 Reloaded' two years ago. This will only be an enhanced A500/A1200 motherboard using the original Amiga A1200 chip set. http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Amiga_reloaded.

It will not have much features over the original A1200 and be much slower than the Mist ... so maybe Jens has it was already cancelled it.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 1:19:26
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1094
From: Unknown

@cip060

Quote:

cip060 wrote:
@AmigaMac

I understand that a new motherboard at 1200 is provided by Individual computer


http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41386&forum=25

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TRIPOS 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 1:26:18
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1094
From: Unknown

@Yssing

There is absolutely no reason to distrust Individual Computers ability to design and manufacture HW. Clone A was cancelled for other reasons. The improved Commodore A1200 Reloaded has been in line to follow after the improved Commodore C64 Reloaded MK2, which is now shipping.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 1:31:46
#9 ]
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Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1094
From: Unknown

@OneTimer1

It will be very much improved! It will have improvements in every single possible aspect within the boundaries of compatibility and the AGA chips specifications! It will be a great and unique product for anyone interested in real H/W. If that is not important to you, emulation on x86 will allways be the fastest option.

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AmigaMac 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 17:51:28
#10 ]
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Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1057
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

@TRIPOS

Is anyone producing the A1200 keyboard assembly (beyond keycaps)?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 18:47:34
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11694
From: Norway

@AmigaMac

Quote:
as well as AmigaOS4, MorphOS, etc... with the addition of PowerPC accelerator boards, etc...?


Should work, but this accelerators with PowerPC 603 and 604 CPU's, are hard to find expensive and slow.

Any Sam440/sam460 or the upcoming AmigaONE-A1222, is better for this.

WinUAE can most likely emulate faster 603/604 then real 603/604 accelerator card, almost level.
what you won't get is support for modern graphic cards, if you go with accelerator card or WinUAE emulation.

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AmigaMac 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 19:07:14
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1057
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

@NutsAboutAmiga

I wonder if Phase5 can put some oomph in newer PPC accelerator cards: http://www.generationamiga.com/2017/03/15/coming-soon-blizzard-ppc-2-0-cards/ ?

Last edited by AmigaMac on 10-Dec-2017 at 07:28 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 19:09:05
#13 ]
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9223
From: Unknown

@AmigaMac

I fear we can´t expect much from this Phase5.

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AdvancedFollower 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 19:43:40
#14 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Aug-2017
Posts: 79
From: Sweden

Re-creating the A1200 exactly would require access to the original schematics of the chips, since the original Commodore manufactured chips are in limited supply and will all cease functioning eventually. Don't know if anyone has access to those schematics, or if they're lost forever?

The behavior of the AGA chipset is pretty well understood at this point, even if the exact inner workings of the chips aren't known. Still, the same kind of flaws you see in software emulators and FPGA implementations would exist in pure hardware recreations too, due to undocumented features (bugs...), tiny timing differences etc. Emulation or FPGA actually have an advantage, since they can be updated on the fly without a respin of the physical silicon. But no matter which method, it would be a reverse-engineered re-creation, not an exact replica.

Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 10-Dec-2017 at 07:47 PM.
Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 10-Dec-2017 at 07:47 PM.
Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 10-Dec-2017 at 07:46 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 20:51:30
#15 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5724
From: UK

@AdvancedFollower

I don't understand why the A1200 is held up as the Holy Grail to be honest. Any reproduction should have a 030 50 Mhz as a minimum with access to CD/DVD drive ethernet, Wi-Fi and USB, none of which the A1200 has out of the box! Dream a bit bigger people

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OneTimer1 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 21:14:05
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 644
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

... production should have a 030 50 Mhz as a minimum with access to CD/DVD drive ethernet, Wi-Fi and USB, none of which the A1200 has out of the box!


Ack ... well you can sacrifice CD/DVD for USB and the MiST only has the speed of a 030/25MHz ....

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BigD 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 21:36:52
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5724
From: UK

@OneTimer1

Quote:
Ack ... well you can sacrifice CD/DVD for USB and the MiST only has the speed of a 030/25MHz ....


You might want to sacrifice features and slash the speed in half but I'd say a 030/50 Mhz should be a minimum. It's all conjecture anyway as if the Vampire V4 reaches market before the A1200 Reloaded I'd suggest the Vampire will wipe the floor

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AmigaMac 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 21:44:37
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1057
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

@BigD

How well will the Apollo Vampire V4 fit into the A1200 wedge form factor?

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BigD 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 10-Dec-2017 21:51:46
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5724
From: UK

@AmigaMac

I'm sure it'll be fine

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retro 
Re: Possible to reproduce the A1200?
Posted on 11-Dec-2017 0:10:29
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2003
Posts: 1042
From: Unknown

@AmigaMac

i would love it if the p5 made an sx32 pro thing for cd32 with 060

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