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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion development and financing discussion
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PosterThread
simplex 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 2-Feb-2018 14:42:35
#81 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@OlafS25

Quote:
Another problem... if you ask say 70 EUR for a update people will ask what improvements they get, if there is not much then not many will buy it. Then the concept fails...

+1

Nor should they. Hyperion isn't Red Hat, who (as far as I know) are the ones who pioneered this business model almost 20 years ago. For that matter, OS4 isn't at the level Linux was 20 years ago, though in some ways that might be a good thing.

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cgutjahr 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 2-Feb-2018 15:01:55
#82 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@simplex

Quote:

I can't imagine that Hyperion going under would make this any less complicated than it currently is. Hyperion lacks either the resources or the willpower to buy the relevant rights to the code in OS4, whereas with them out of the picture, (a) someone else may be willing and able to put the mess together, or (b) the programmers, seeing that no one was making money off the code anyway, would renounce their rights.

That's why I keep hinting at the financial and legal mess Hyperion created. You don't just "buy" the relevant rights to the code, you start by paying debts accumulated in the last 17 years. There's also old lawsuits and out-of-court settlements to take care of. I'm told some people won't even reply to any inquiries mentioning 'Amiga'.

It might be doable, but it's going to cost a ton of money and require lots of time and goodwill. But even if you get it done - next you'd have to assemble a team of programmers to work on your OS. Good luck finding talented people still interested in that task - especially if you rule out individuals who were too deeply involved in creating or covering up the current mess in the first place.

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bison 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 2-Feb-2018 15:17:05
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@simplex

Quote:
if Hyperion went under then A-EON could work with whoever takes the rights.

Maybe. I'm not really clear on who owns the rights. I thought it was Amiga Inc., but now it seems like it might be Cloanto. This could end up in yet more litigation, which would leave AmigaOS 4.x in limbo.

Yogi Berra: "It's hard to make predictions, especially about the future."

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Rob 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 2-Feb-2018 17:27:11
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@wawa

Quote:
at least he took some precautions it seems, as apparrently he is waiting with customers production run till the os is ready enough in his eyes.


I'm pretty certain that Trevor stated way back in 2015 that 1000 Tabor motherboards had been made.

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amigang 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 3-Feb-2018 3:56:49
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2018
From: Cheshire, England

I can’t help but feel if Hyperion have no longer have the resources to support or continue to develop Os4 then they should decide to sell it to another company, after all what the point and long term goals if you can’t fund development to reach them goals.

As for looking for new ways of funding development, the sub option I think many wouldn’t like it, I kinda also in that camp, it would have to prove it self before I jumped on board and I saw real development and updates coming down the pipe, and see if it was value for money. I think I would prefer maybe more like the return of say one big update/patch or even bring back the boing bag name! charge maybe £5 to £15 and it included a number of updates, enhancements, new small features and maybe contribution could even be in it like exclusive backdrops / Amiga mod music or even Amiga Demo to add value to it I think would be much more accepted in the Amiga world.

Also there are other ways of raising some small funds, like maybe creating a deadicated amazon referral link for Amigaos developers that we could all use, The odd sale always help push people who yet to upgrade would’nt hurt or on there games library. Etc.

@kas1e

Quote:
Lately, when update1 for fe was released, and it was found that by mistake there was put an older version of some component, and i asked few times to make quickfix, i was told to not worry about not my business, so i give up in try to convince about :)


And this is why I would wait and see with a sub model if it would actually help the current sistuation.

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bison 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 3-Feb-2018 15:50:09
#86 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@Rob

Quote:
I'm pretty certain that Trevor stated way back in 2015 that 1000 Tabor motherboards had been made.

That's my recollection as well.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 3-Feb-2018 16:00:30
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@bison

New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon

#6

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simplex 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 3-Feb-2018 16:01:28
#88 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@amigang

Quote:
I can’t help but feel if Hyperion have no longer have the resources to support or continue to develop Os4 then they should decide to sell it to another company, after all what the point and long term goals if you can’t fund development to reach them goals.

The key word is should. As to why they don't, one question to resolve is, "Is Hyperion an ineffective software development firm with a very effective legal arm, or is it an effective law firm with an ineffective software development arm?"

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 4-Feb-2018 8:01:19
#89 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 762
From: Unknown

It is time to cut costs by using unix kernel.
Amiga Os 4.x is something like Mac Os 9.x.
It is time to do next step - move to something like Mac Os X 10.0 on ppc.
Current Amiga Os should be moved to vm, with possibilty to peek and poke new unix software to vm.



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Hypex 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 4-Feb-2018 13:49:25
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@ppcamiga1

Would that include a new DOS, perhaps based on the abandoned CAOS idea? I do like AmigaDOS, even if it wasn't what the intended result would be, and I can think of ways it can be expanded. But I think, like on OSX, that if the kernel is replaced then DOS would also have to go and the DOS we all know and love would end up turning into something from Linux and bearing no relation either. As well as other system internals.

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bison 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 4-Feb-2018 21:26:00
#91 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@Hypex

Quote:
the DOS we all know and love would end up turning into something from Linux and bearing no relation either.

Are you referring to the shell (CLI) or the file system? I can't say that I really love either. Even at launch in 1985 AmigaDOS wasn't anything great. It was what they could find, so they used it.

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Hypex 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 5-Feb-2018 14:11:54
#92 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@bison

Quote:
Are you referring to the shell (CLI) or the file system? I can't say that I really love either. Even at launch in 1985 AmigaDOS wasn't anything great. It was what they could find, so they used it.


I suppose at the forefront I am referring to the shell. With the Amiga path senantics. But what follows on from there is also the internal API.

Well having used MSDOS I would say I prefer the AmigaShell. I can't really speak for MacDOS since they never provided a proper medium to comunicate with DOS for the user. But from the outset it did share some things in common with AmigaDOS.

AmigaDOS has an interface on an Amiga lover would love.

Perhaps learning to love it sounds a stretch too far.

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bison 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 5-Feb-2018 15:44:17
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@Hypex

Maybe you just got used to it.

I personally dislike every shell that I have ever used, including sh, csh, ksh, bash, etc. This despite the fact that I spend most of my time in a shell. So this might be more of an issue with me than with shells in general.

Last edited by bison on 05-Feb-2018 at 07:48 PM.
Last edited by bison on 05-Feb-2018 at 07:47 PM.

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resle 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 2:21:10
#94 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

Can anyone please write down a recap of how many releases of aos 4 Hyperion did, and what price they asked for it each time?

Also, has anyone a guesstimate of how many aos 4 users could have existed back after the very aos4 release, and today?

Thanks

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Hypex 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 13:34:48
#95 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@bison

Yes you're likely right. It's not always perfect. But used to it. The older ones annoying. Scroll bars and tabs are one thing. I would also like template completion. That is if you didn't know the template you could type in a command name and press tab. It would then load it in and display a list of keywords. Kind of like how tab works for file names but instead for template keywords. I should do a FR if there isn't one already.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 14:38:58
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@resle

Quote:
Also, has anyone a guesstimate of how many aos 4 users could have existed back after the very aos4 release, and today?


I'm not sure what good knowing the # before all the Eyetech AmigaOne models were released would do for you here.
But if you are talking about AmigaOS4 final (after all Eyetech AmigaOne models were released), we don't have to guess much.

Quote:
according to Evert Carton's testimony, Hyperion has shipped "more or less 1000" copies of OS4 (see docket 54 in current lawsuit, page 3)


Source given

and

more specific re:models

This would represent an fairly accurate accounting re:AmigaOS4 as of the time of the lawsuit, when only Eyetech h/w existed as a platform for AmigaOS4.
Hope that helps you.

Added:
version history

#6

Last edited by number6 on 06-Feb-2018 at 02:59 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 15:00:03
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

@number6

Can i think hyperion sells about 5000 total os4 license included Classic and all os4 version for all the compatible machine (see uae too)

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number6 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 15:05:27
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@tlosm

Classic was claimed to be the best seller of all versions at AmiWest years ago.
That likely did not change with the advent of uae.

But I think resle was wanting a number of sales of AmigaOS4 from the earliest date known to do his comparison, so I stuck with mentioning that since the evidence is strong.
After that time, we have no public #s of sales that I am aware of.

#6

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resle 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 15:34:33
#99 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

@number6

Thanks. Questions:
- the Evert Carton figure is... a grand total? Meaning all copies, ever?
- average price per copy?
- does Amigaos come preinstalled/bundled with the various ppc machines that have been sold by this and that vendor so far?

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number6 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 6-Feb-2018 15:54:24
#100 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@resle

Quote:
- the Evert Carton figure is... a grand total? Meaning all copies, ever?

No.
As you can see from the date of umisef's posting, he's referring to testimony by Evert in the case Amiga Inc. vs Hyperion VOF.
So we're talking only through the period of the original Eyetech AmigaOnes (and the lawsuit 2007-2009), which were sold with AmigaOS, therefore a "1 to 1" correlation for your estimates.

Quote:
- average price per copy?


In my case AmigaOS was part of the purchase price OF the AmigaOne, so I can't assign a specific value to it. But updates to AmigaOS4.0 that followed were free updates, until AmigaOS4.0 final (plus a later July 2007 update).

Quote:
- does Amigaos come preinstalled/bundled with the various ppc machines that have been sold by this and that vendor so far?


I can only speak of my experience. Yes it was. However, since many people assembled their own Eyetech models piece by piece (generic bits like h/ds), surely someone else here can comment on whether they installed their copy of AmigaOS personally.

#6

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