For consideration, I propose a framework whereby people might receive timely, affordable updates while the OS generates meaningful revenue for its developers, something like the following:

*) Sell "baseline" releases (4.2, 4.3, ...) annually, but be flexible in terms of timing and cost
*) Sell "point" releases (4.2.1, ...) for something reasonable, say 10-15 euros, ideally every quarter
*) Offer "continuous" updates by subscription (via AmiUpdate or comparable) - for something reasonable, say 30-50 euros for a year

Note that someone subscribing for continuous updates would not need to purchase point releases. One might even consider giving away baseline releases that are 3 or more years old.

Nothing really new here, just spelling out one approach.

For starters, and as a show of faith, establish the first baseline with a release (as soon as possible) in the form of a consolidated update (4.2?) - and offer this for a donation. I believe this would be embraced by the community, and serve to get everyone on the same page.

The work of preparing the point releases and continuous updates should be done by a group comprised of enthusiasts and those who can shepherd the process; rotate the work across small teams over the course of the year so as to spread the know-how and break the monotony. Perhaps AEon could manage this effort in coordination with Hyperion.

The core team focuses on the major releases first, point releases second, etc.

Lastly, I would suggest that point releases would not need to be produced *every* quarter, but the cost should remain essentially the same as each point release should represent roughly the same amount or value of work.

@Snorg

I think that is a good idea, but i think the base releases should be about 100 euros, and should not have a schedule. I think the point releases should be at least 25 euros and be annual.

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@Snorg

The main problem will be that there won't be releases "annually".

Just look at the release history upto now...there are just not enough developers to release something (that big of a change) annually (except fora two or three bug fix release, but that wouldn't justify taking any money for it (imho))

I'd think it would end up to a horrible mess. Userbase would split to small fractions where each would have slightly different version of the OS depending how far or often they bothered to pay.

How would, for example, a 3rd party developer place requirements for his software then? If he would like to use features found in libraries of the latest version of the OS, but that would make target audience for his program quite tiny, because not everyone wants or can afford to pay for their hobby OS every few months.

Casual users who would like to try the system occasionally, and maybe get few games or apps, would find that their systems are obsoleted in a blink. That doesn't sound very encouraging either. It would rather drive users away than attract them... do you think we could afford to lose users like that?

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@jPV

Quote:

I'd think it would end up to a horrible mess. Userbase would split to small fractions where each would have slightly different version of the OS depending how far or often they bothered to pay.

That has always been the case to some degree or other. There are still people out there with Update 6 , probably some have FE but not Update 1 etc, and few die hard 4.0 users!

Quote:

How would, for example, a 3rd party developer place requirements for his software then? If he would like to use features found in libraries of the latest version of the OS, but that would make target audience for his program quite tiny, because not everyone wants or can afford to pay for their hobby OS every few months.

Developer always have this trade off to consider, it depends on how critical the requirement is for the new features, how good a fallback can be implmented etc. It gest even more complex when considering cross amigoid portabilty.

Quote:

Casual users who would like to try the system occasionally, and maybe get few games or apps, would find that their systems are obsoleted in a blink.

That would be a sign of success! If the OS is moving forward so fast you can to keep up with out or lose out, that is plainly a good thing for the health of the OS.

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@jPV

Thank you for your feedback.

Regarding splitting the userbase, I would agree with the point made by Broadblues. As a long-time developer myself, I understand issues regarding software dependencies. The idea is predicated upon releases improving the OS with bug fixes and new/improved features while maintaining compatibility as is reasonable.

Developers are always making trade-offs when it comes to requirements: application feature richness versus backward compatibility. It's important that the developer is the one to make this decision - a decision which, in turn, is typically based upon the userbase, after all.

I understand the frustration of, for instance, mritter and Trixie when important bug fixes are delayed at length - that situation is far worse than having to ensure compatibility with a set of OS releases, which can be done at the programmer's discretion.

Besides, progress involves some uprooting of the old to make room for the new.

So no, I do think the Amiga community needs to grow rather than shrink - hence my (very first) post (!)

@Snorg

Congratulations on your first post.

I don't think the Amiga community is large enough to support more than one or two developers, so the pace of development is going to be glacial no matter what payment scheme is implemented.

Releasing the code under an open-source license might change things, but maybe not much beyond creating some initial short-term excitement. There are so many claims of IP ownership that that's probably impossible as a practical matter anyway.

But hope lives on, beyond all reason. Here's to the success of our hopeless endeavor.

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@Snorg

Is anyone actively working on AOS4 currently? It seems like news on development has been mostly quiet. Of course MorphOS has got the same issue... not much noise coming from them since the release of 3.9.

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isnt that a bit bold to tell a company how they are to conclude their business? you guys might not even have the complete data to tell whats wrong and whats right. whoever is not satidfied with the state of affairs has a basic consumer right and responsibility, not to buy the product in question. nothing more, nothing less.

@wawa

The state of affairs I am chiefly unsatisfied with is a lack of advances (upgrades) for the OS to purchase/support, so I can't vote with my wallet. There are options beyond all or nothing, including offering (hopefully constructive) feedback here.

@Snorg

Quote:

I can't vote with my wallet.

you can simply refrain from buying further products, should they be available, for instance merchandise, which is usually done to "support the case" anyway.

Quote:

There are options beyond all or nothing, including offering (hopefully constructive) feedback here.

all effect to "constructive feedback" i have ever seen was that people vented their frustration a bit in the public.

My ideas would be.

1. bring back the Boing Bag name! charge maybe £5 to £15 for each one and it includes a number of updates, enhancements, new small features and maybe contribution could even be in it like exclusive backdrops / Amiga mod music or even Amiga Demo to add value to it.

2. create a amazon affiliate global link that Amigan users could use ever time we shop at Amazon and the money raised goes to AmigaOS, https://affiliate-program.amazon.co.uk/

3. Tip jar, have pay pal tip jar on AmigaOS.com or Hyperion with nothing promised but a thank you and maybe a ranking so people could see who tips the most, some people might be willing and compete.

4. Sales, have a 10% or 25% off AmigaOS or Hyperion Games every now and then to push sales for people who yet to buy it.

5. Improve the https://shop.spreadshirt.co.uk/amigaos/ with better designs, might make a bit more money on that, posters and maybe a limited Card board big box version of OS4.1Final edition people might want/buy.

6. Really Really try to work together with Cloanto and drop the trademarks / copyright fight.

Last edited by amigang on 05-Feb-2018 at 12:05 PM.

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@amigang

Quote:

amigang wrote: 2. create a amazon affiliate global link that Amigan users could use ever time we shop at Amazon and the money raised goes to AmigaOS, https://affiliate-program.amazon.co.uk/ 3. Tip jar, have pay pal tip jar on AmigaOS.com or Hyperion with nothing promised but a thank you and maybe a ranking so people could see who tips the most, some people might be willing and compete.

The problem with those two proposals would be that you effectively turn Hyperion into some kind of ... charity.
Not convinced that's a good idea ...
It probably won't be more than a drop in the ocean, in other words, it wouldn't change much, and it opens a new can of worms

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 05-Feb-2018 at 12:15 PM.

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@broadblues
Quote:

That has always been the case to some degree or other. There are still people out there with Update 6 , probably some have FE but not Update 1 etc, and few die hard 4.0 users!

This should be quite easy to fix in OS4 case. One killer app (like office suite) supporting only the latest version should do the trick. All who skip it are lost souls anyway...

@jorit2

Quote:

The problem with those two proposals would be that you effectively turn Hyperion into some kind of ... charity

Kinda true, but Ubuntu do a similar thing and that Linux no1 OS and I dont think it hurts there image
https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/contribute?version=16.04.3&architecture=amd64

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@amigang

But the business model behind Ubuntu is completely different.
And it's a free download ...

So I don't agree with your comparison

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@jorit2

Quote:

and it opens a new can of worms

Without detail...are you referring in general to "in a legal sense"?

#6

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@number6

legal sense ... dunno how to go about this one

I was thinking about accountability etc ... Does that make sense ?

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@jorit2

In as much as anything around here makes sense, sure.

#6

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@jPV

Absolutely. I was thinking the same thing, and being a multi-NG user Im not going to try to unjustifyabley dismiss it either (as happens with people who focus on one platform).

Unlike the past, which is a bad analogy people are trying to use to make it seem better than it is, it's not just a case of if you have OS3, 3.1 or 3.5/3.9. There's so, so many more variables here that it's pretty much impossible to name all the OS4 possibilities. It *is* a mess and will only get worse and worse.
There's os4 users, os4.1 users, 4.1 users who have just update 1, just update2, just update3, just update4, just update5, just update6, just update7, and 4.1fe update.
Along with that there's the enforcer packs which some may or may not use, and may be used in association with any one of the 8 or so os4 variations (or not).
On top of this a subscription model wont suit a lot of people and many just wont use it. Some will sometimes. Some always will. Again in makes so many variations on what the OS is that it'll more or less be luck of the draw as to what works on any particular machine.

It's an absolute freaking mess that just seems to be getting worse and worse with no sign as to how, or if, it can be made "clean" again.

Now of course this is all worst case stuff, but the sad fact is that it *is* actual case stuff. It's a real, not feigned issue. So much ego involved that I can't help think of the Amiga as Mormon's and hyperion/a-eon/amikit as the Americans.
Absolutely nothing to do with the history, but god damn they're sure gonna do their best to insert themselves into the stories,..... kinda pathetic actually, like begging "please believe me, I really, really want to be relevant"

I've said it before, but ego finally killed the Amiga. Good stuff to all involved. Your ego and insecurity killed it. Impressive really.