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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  The feel of AOS 4.x
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hotrod 
The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 22-May-2018 5:31:15
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2993
From: Stockholm, Sweden

Is it just me or does it seem like anything compiled with GCC has a certain feel to it? Older versions of AOS and older software like IBrowse feel so much snappier.

It's just a thought. Things compiled with GCC seems to have a feeling of being... not as fast under certain circumstanses. Does it make sense?

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outrun1978 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 22-May-2018 7:04:31
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@hotrod

fast??? With OS4.1 FE on the X5000 things are perhaps a little too quick.....

_________________
Amigaone X5000/20 4GB Radeon RX 550 Polaris 12 AmigaOS4.1 Final Edition Update 1
Amiga 1200 Workbench 3.1.4
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hotrod 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 22-May-2018 7:24:35
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2993
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@outrun1978

That's not what I meant...

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Fl@sh 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 22-May-2018 7:41:06
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 253
From: Napoli - Italy

@hotrod

Maybe because a lot of GCC apps aren't AmigaOs native, but rather a fast Unix porting?

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AmigaOS4.1 fe - MorphOS - Debian 9 Jessie

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Hypex 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 22-May-2018 9:19:01
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@hotrod

Quote:
Is it just me or does it seem like anything compiled with GCC has a certain feel to it? Older versions of AOS and older software like IBrowse feel so much snappier.


It's not you. It's me.

In fact, you're right. Especially with unpopular CPUs like PowerPC and 68K. It's common that x86 has better support and optimised code with compilers like GCC and the like. And it's well known that for PPC and 68K GCC doesn't produce the best code. Work has gone into optimising code output on 68K. I've been told that for things where one type is cast to another, even if technically there is no register conversion needed, that GCC will spend all kinds of efforts converting data with useless code that ends up producing exactly what goes out as what came in. Well, if I understood the description, in any case.

Quote:
It's just a thought. Things compiled with GCC seems to have a feeling of being... not as fast under certain circumstanses. Does it make sense?


It does. You reminded me of this article I read once. And I was able to track it down. It compares endian swapping conversion across different CPU types including PPC and ARM. And this with built in macros. Where you would expect to see the best ASM code in this particular case. But the results can be shocking.

https://hardwarebug.org/2010/01/14/beware-the-builtins/

Quote:
That's not what I meant...


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Jose 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 22-May-2018 11:54:44
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 992
From: Unknown

Are you using C++ ? If not just use VBCC, much better.

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Lou 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 22-May-2018 12:29:17
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

Does no one use DevKitPPC?
https://devkitpro.org/wiki/Getting_Started/devkitPPC

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 22-May-2018 20:49:20
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Lou

Maybe you should read the about page about "DevKitPPC"…
"DevKitPPC" is not for AmigaOS4.x!, DevKitPPC is for gamecube and Wii,

So if you like to make Gamecube game or Wii game this what you need.

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kolla 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 23-May-2018 9:37:00
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@NutsAboutAmiga

What prevents anyone from adjusting DevKitPPC to compile for OS4?

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bennymee 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 23-May-2018 10:50:31
#10 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 696
From: Netherlands

@hotrod

All right, so what are you saying then ?



Last edited by bennymee on 23-May-2018 at 10:51 AM.

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Mr_Capehill 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 23-May-2018 16:36:42
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 1932
From: Yharnam

@hotrod

Feeling is not a benchmark :)

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 23-May-2018 19:13:58
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@hotrod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5vuSKf1Oa0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bWyhj7siEY

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-May-2018 at 07:16 PM.

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tonyw 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 24-May-2018 10:42:02
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course)

@hotrod

What are you trying to compare?

Since programs are compiled either with gcc or something else, you can't have two versions of the same program, one compiled with gcc and the other compiled with some other compiler, that you can fairly compare, on the same machine.

Or are you trying to compare a 68K program, running under JIT emulation, with a recompiled PPC version, running natively?


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Tomppeli 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 24-May-2018 14:47:48
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1652
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@Mr_Capehill

Quote:
Feeling is not a benchmark

What do you mean, feelings and personal opinions have been facts and benchmarks always here at amigaworld.net.

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kamelito 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 24-May-2018 20:37:38
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 813
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Maybe he's trying to say that SAS/C produce highly optimized 68k while on the other hand PPC GCC does not which lead to slower programs under OS4.

Last edited by kamelit0 on 24-May-2018 at 08:38 PM.

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Kotler 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 24-May-2018 20:44:14
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 27-May-2005
Posts: 255
From: Sweden

@hotrod

I would say that apps using Reaction 'feel' more 'slow'. So IBrowse, as a MUI app, 'feels' 'faster'.

Last edited by Kotler on 24-May-2018 at 08:44 PM.

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tonyw 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 24-May-2018 23:42:37
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course)

@Kotler

Faster than what? You can't be sure that it's a Reaction Vs MUI difference unless you have two copies of the same program running MUI and Reaction, to compare. It's not fair to compare the speed of IBrowse with the speed of a different program altogether and say that it's the fault of one GUI or the other.

The same with 68K Vs PPC, or 68K under OS3.x as against 68K under OS4. It needs to be the same program running on the same hardware and the same OS.

About the only comparison we can safely make is 68K under OS4 with JIT to recompiled PPC under OS4.

Last edited by tonyw on 24-May-2018 at 11:43 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 25-May-2018 2:32:33
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4394
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

My experience has been that 68K apps generally seem much faster under OS4.1 on my A1200/PPC than they are on the same system in 3.9 running on the 68040. Which seems fair. The JIT is going to be as fast or faster and the system calls are generally PPC native. Perhaps the gap would be less conspicuous if I'd had a 68060, but a good example is the DoomAttack DOOM port. Fast and fluid on the 040@25MHz at 320*200 under RTG, but equally fast and fluid emulated on the 603@240MHz when running at 640*400, despite pushing 4x the pixels.

https://youtu.be/AQ1t5q3xmYk

Last edited by Karlos on 25-May-2018 at 02:34 AM.

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bison 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 25-May-2018 4:28:25
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@hotrod

Quote:
Is it just me or does it seem like anything compiled with GCC has a certain feel to it?

I've never heard of such a thing, but if you can actually do that, well, that's impressive.

I'll be really impressed if you can guess what compiler flags were used. "Feels like -O2 to me..."

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hotrod 
Re: The feel of AOS 4.x
Posted on 25-May-2018 16:02:16
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2993
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@bison

Joke all you want but I actually AM very sensetive to slight differences. I got lots of friends happily running their PC not noticing anything regarding slowdowns because of spyware and the like but I on the other hand do notice that.

There is a slight odd feeling that I can't quite describe. I just wondered if anoyone else was experience that, that's all.

I'm pretty much comparing with my old a4k with AOS 3.x, including 3.9 and faster CPUs like the 040 and 060.

There is a certain feel to it to me and that's all. It's slight but it's there. I'm not at all bashing anything or anyone, it's just me thinking and wondering as usual

Last edited by hotrod on 25-May-2018 at 04:02 PM.

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