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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
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PosterThread
Fl@sh 
Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 19-Jun-2018 20:13:13
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 41
From: Napoli - Italy

@All Please let me understand why AEON/Hyperion guys produced an OS4 version running on a new expensive hardware, engineered from scratch, and based on an "no future PowerPC architecture", selling some hundred pieces, rather than port it on a simple, but powerful and very cheap, Raspberry Pi (or similar cheap ARM based hardware) and sell many thousand pieces.

I got no answer, really!

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K-L 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 19-Jun-2018 20:16:15
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1254
From: Oullins, France

@Fl@sh

Bla bla bla.... And here we go again ! Pop corn time !

_________________
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
Webmaster of Amiga-NG.org (French)

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wawa 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 19-Jun-2018 20:16:16
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6098
From: Unknown

@Fl@sh

simply serch this forum for hundreds of thousands of existing posts to your question.

Last edited by wawa on 19-Jun-2018 at 08:16 PM.

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Drewlio77 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 19-Jun-2018 20:32:28
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Jan-2008
Posts: 764
From: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada

@Fl@sh

Though I agree the hardware is very expensive, the Raspberry Pi is not a viable option, for me at least, for expansion and Raw Horsepower reasons. Especially on the expansion side of things.

Drewlio77

Last edited by Drewlio77 on 19-Jun-2018 at 08:33 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 19-Jun-2018 20:38:22
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4529
From: UK

@Fl@sh

Blah, blah, hardware abstraction layer and Classic compatibility, blah, blah, PowerPC has no future, blah blah Big Endians versus Smal Endians, blah blah everyone with a Raspberry Pi would try out AmigaOS and it would become the next RiscOS killer

We've been here before. Hyperion aren't interested their main sector is now IP protection and aggressive court action so there's no money left for investing in a new CPU architecture! We'd better hope there's enough money (and man power) to finish AmigaOS for the Tabor IMHO.

Last edited by BigD on 19-Jun-2018 at 08:41 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 19-Jun-2018 at 08:41 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 19-Jun-2018 at 08:39 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Pixar Animation Studios

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Fl@sh 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 19-Jun-2018 21:00:09
#6 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 41
From: Napoli - Italy

@BigD

ARM is both big and little endian.
No one uses amiga for it's power but instead for it's agility also on outdated hardware.
For a cost of total 100$, I'm sure, a lot of amiga user would try the new toy and maybe continue use it for daily things.

I really hope there will be a new AmigaOS on next Tabor hardware, but maybe it's time to think for a next generation.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 19-Jun-2018 21:07:19
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 368
From: Unknown

@Fl@sh

Quote:

Fl@sh wrote:
@All Please let me understand why AEON/Hyperion guys produced an OS4 version running on ...


They decided to do this because the chosen CPU architecture seemed to be a good idea and supported compatibility.

They continue using the CPU architecture because a switch might break compatibility with existing AOS4 or AOS3 programs and because it would generate new costs.

---

Any questions left?

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Fl@sh 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 19-Jun-2018 21:20:29
#8 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 41
From: Napoli - Italy

@OneTimer1

Sure you are right, when OS4 was developed (about 10 years ago) it was the right choice and I well understand all the various reason.
But in the last years they could switch to a widespread parallel platform, used by a lot of developers, where all hardware is well documented.
I hope when OS4 was designed portability was one of the targets to take in mind.
It should be all C code, maybe with very few PPC assembler parts.

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tonyw 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 1:58:37
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3145
From: Sydney (of course)

@Fl@sh

It's not true to claim that the ARM is big/little endian swappable. It's the same as the PPC - you can select some memory accesses to be swappable, but not all. There remains a lot of work to be done to make the 18-year old AmigaOS4 endian-agnostic. The OS was originally ported from a mixture of 68K assembler and C code, but over its 18-year lifetime, most of it has been rewritten for the PPC platform. Portability to other platforms was never a requirement.

The fact is that there is no motivation for doing it and no one prepared to do it for nothing. These days, people expect to be paid for working and there are no funds to pay developers for a large investment (man-years) that is not guaranteed to produce results.

_________________
cheers
tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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remotenemesis 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 4:22:39
#10 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2018
Posts: 83
From: SF Bay Area, California

@tonyw

Respectfully, is Hyperion still in the game?

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KimmoK 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 5:59:12
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5101
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

my 0.2 cents...

Quick version of AOS4 for RPi would be like AOS4 on WinUAE, except slower.
Full porting would be needed + GFX+Audio+USB+Ethernet drivers etc + more, to make the user experience "ok".

Then the work would have no benefit for people who like SATA HDD + RadeonHD kind of performance.

I vote for ignoring ARM for now, unless someone start to make decent ARM motherboards for hobbyists with RadeonHD etc. capability.

If another ISA is considered, A64 is the only sane alternative to PPC.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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Fl@sh 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 7:07:40
#12 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 41
From: Napoli - Italy

@tonyw

Your reply is much appreciated
About portability I thought things were better than described, so all is very difficult, but still not impossible.

I know money are one BIG problem, so do you have ever thought to start a new project on kickstarter (or similar) and see what happens? A lot of interesting projects was born and realized in this way.
Also european funds for innovation and/or R&S could be a choice.



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K-L 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 7:33:39
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1254
From: Oullins, France

@Fl@sh

What you want has already a name : AROS.

_________________
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
Webmaster of Amiga-NG.org (French)

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Trixie 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 7:43:05
#14 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1664
From: Czech Republic

@remotenemesis

Quote:
Respectfully, is Hyperion still in the game?

I think so. Saw Ben in the bingo hall just last night

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon R5 230 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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fishy_fis 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 11:01:55
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1824
From: Australia

@Fl@sh

OS4.x is a dead end system. This isnt to say its bad (it's not), but it's been in development for over a decade with no thought ever given to the future. It just get's more and more tied to ppc all the time with no real interest, or money to move it on. In fact the only real money involved (to use the term "real money" loosely) is being spent to make sure it stays that way. Intentional or not it is the net result.

People tout compatibility to 68k as a reason for not moving forward, but in reality that just keeps it stuck in the past. If you don't let go of that you'll remain stuck in a rut. It's not like transparent compatibility isn't possible in other ways anyway.

There is AROS however, which has nearly always been designed to be architecture agnostic. Which is part of the reason it exists for x86, x86-64, ppc, arm and ppc.

All 4 Amiga based OSes (os3, os4, mos, aros) are pretty much flogging a dead horse, but some are much more accessible than others. Being very much a relic of the computing world means they'll always be a niche, but doesn't stop them from being good fun though, and reasonably capable.

Perhaps the question people should ask rather than "why isnt Amiga OS ported to xxx?" hardware is, "why am I stuck on a brand name when what I want more or less exists under a different name?".

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utri007 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 11:04:03
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2003
Posts: 951
From: United States of Europe

Hundreds of thousands ex. RiscOS users has returned to RiscOS users because of cheap and good availlability of Raspberry Bi. Now RiscOS is MAINSTREAM OS again and it is competiting with Apple and Microsoft.

Seriously....



Last edited by utri007 on 20-Jun-2018 at 11:04 AM.

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kamelit0 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 11:36:29
#17 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2011
Posts: 687
From: Unknown

@tonyw

"Portability to other platforms was never a requirement."

Well, probably a big mistake. Seeing how long it took to port it to PPC this feature could have been implemented.
IIRC Hazy once told that porting could be done in 2 years or something similar.

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wawa 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 12:17:10
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6098
From: Unknown

@kamelit0

Quote:

kamelit0 wrote:
@tonyw

"Portability to other platforms was never a requirement."

Well, probably a big mistake.


thats a usual modus os4 software seems to be approached with. only an immediate goal instead of a perspectivic. same example as with "timberwolf". a quick port may be within reach even if it doesnt get finalized, but further maintenance is out of question. and i think this is rather understandable.

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remotenemesis 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 14:40:15
#19 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2018
Posts: 83
From: SF Bay Area, California

RPi isn't the only ARM platform.

Does anyone think an entry level OS running on Pi would not boost interest in the Amiga?

Drivers are a major issue for AOS4 and AROS. Having a small number of reference platforms would allow for a concentration of effort. I think this is hugely valuable.

A-EON are providing this with the current generation of PPC-based boards and AROS runs quite nicely on my $36 Aspire AcerOne netbook.

And why not an open-source Hardware Abstract Layer for Amiga-like operating systems?

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pavlor 
Re: Os4 for Raspberry PI, why not?!?
Posted on 20-Jun-2018 15:25:27
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8807
From: Unknown

@Fl@sh

Write fast PowerPC CPU emulator and Tony Willen will integrate it to WinUAE. Problem solved.

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