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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Is AmigaOS still in active development?
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bennymee 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 7-Jul-2018 18:44:51
#21 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 423
From: Netherlands

@Micam

They promised a nice Tabor board for a good price, it is not the fastest in the world, but porting to intel is not a solution for getting applications or other features.

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Zylesea 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 7-Jul-2018 20:07:22
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2082
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@Micam

AmigaOS 4 seems to be in limbo. Hyperion rather dead than alive, fighting about rights and all that stuff. Then A-Eon is forcing some development with teh enhancer kit, but that's 3rd party...

AmigaOS3 got a few updates and some love recently. But there are also legal issues, further development unclear.

AROS: Steady but slow progress, no legal issues. A little mess on architectures and distribution and ABIs though...

MorphOS: Just got a system update yesterday. No legal issues, development pace was a bit slow, but seems to be increasing again.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 7-Jul-2018 20:11:11
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10896
From: Norway

@ne_one

To some extent, I agree, anyone can make GUI, prefs program.
But not everyone have the skills or time to write drivers.

So I pay professionals do the drivers, working on SMP this kind of core stuff, this people need to get payed, or else you won't have any progress.

Also I put team of developers to tacked development tools and build systems, because this really sucks and make it hopes to take on many projects that are critical to success of platform, sadly this area of development has been lacking for years, when was last time a SDK was released for AmigaOS?

And before you say we can't work on development tool because of Hyperion, your wrong. Accentual the development tools, is open source project and is hosted on Source forge, so anyone has access and anyone can work on it, but development is really slow.

Again is the same problem people think that development will happen just putting it out there. that might happen, but not something you can take for granted.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2018 at 08:17 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2018 at 08:16 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2018 at 08:15 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2018 at 08:13 PM.

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PR 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 7-Jul-2018 20:42:05
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1901
From: Suomi-Finland

When buying every version it's hard to support more if there is no new release.

Last idea was to not put anything anymore forward as the famous net programs and others. Maybe Wings comes out eventually.

Waiting for 4,2 for the XE...

Supporter with a dozen of Migas at least.

Hoping The Best and Buying Ready releases in the Amiga Future.



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Micam 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 7-Jul-2018 20:46:45
#25 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Posts: 91
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

I still believe that there are ways to get things going again, and the issues as I pointed out is:

1: Lack of (affordable) hardware that almost anyone can buy.

2: Lack of an AmigaOS that with "out-of-the-box" has all the necessary up to date features that you would expect from an OS (Browsers, JAVA etc.).

Now saying that porting to Intel/AMD makes no difference, I don't agree with. AROS is not an official AmigaOS but a small OS based on AmigaOS. You would have to ask yourself, why would I PAY for an OS that lacks all the features that I need, and can get for free on Linux (or bundled with the PC with Windows)? If one was to pay for AmigaOS it HAS to be up to date, and with updates at lest two times a year, not every 2-4 years.

Why would one pay for an expensive X1000 or X5000 if it has no up to date software to run, and when it's available, you have to pay for that to?

I LOVE Amiga, but reality is that I have to use Ubuntu since AmigaOS dos not deliver on all the modern software needs that I have (office, video editing, GIMP etc.).

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Micam 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 7-Jul-2018 20:56:01
#26 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Posts: 91
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

I guess what Amiga always has lacked is STRONG management to bring it up to present day and beyond. The computer marked is very hard and unforgiving

If Amiga is a gaming platform, then management might take a look at Playstation, and build a new hybrid system based on high-end gaming and desktop use, for a fair price. Make contact with game developers etc.

If Amiga as a workstation, then focus on all that features that is necessary for it to be a no. 1 workstation for a fair price.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 7-Jul-2018 22:03:24
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10896
From: Norway

@Micam

Company's like Sony or Microsoft have lot money, they have resources (developers, money, engineers), so spend a lot crash design a new platform with idea that they are going to make money, and pay for the cost of the development.

You pay for that console XBOX, you go pay for that game in there Store, you go pay for all the Bonus stuff, micro transactions.

It money printing machine. Nevertheless to get there spend a lot money, because they know there was market. Because they know they get a return on their investment, and if Microsoft fails selling a few XBOX's they do not go bankrupt, they are making lots of money selling software.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2018 at 10:07 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 7-Jul-2018 22:13:00
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6098
From: Unknown

@Micam

Quote:
STRONG management


must be all these mid thirties documentaries, let the people long the society for , as it looks it was. yeah strong leadership we deserve and will soon be getting, where it lacks. have patience. it wasnt the companies, its the audience that is responsible for decline, sure.

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asymetrix 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 7-Jul-2018 23:14:55
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 805
From: United Kingdom

@bennymee

Quote:

They promised a nice Tabor board for a good price, it is not the fastest in the world, but porting to intel is not a solution for getting applications or other features.


Of course it is. By NOT using an x86 processor - by hardware design alone your saying AmigaOS does not deserve a high performance processor.

Compare the brute force of all cpus, measured in one way by DMIPS, this is important for complex software, AI, other graph traversal algorithms in games or software.

You LIMIT the DMIPS, you limit what Amiga can do. Simple.
You limit to single core, again you limit your speed.

Even graphics card driver development and converting source code is MORE complex by NOT using X86 processor.

The people who control Amiga software and hardware should really think hard about the sabotage they are doing to Amiga users and developers not going to x86.

Its amature thinking.

Limit the cpu, limit the hardware you limit the creative freedom for all developers to enjoy the fastest possible hardware each penny can buy.

Yes we have other operating systems that use the same motherboards - so what. More and more people are turning away from mainstream OSs for one reason or another.

AmigaOS on x86 can be a very powerful system, we don't even need API compatibility, all abstract functions done right using hardware acceleration - other OSs are all clunky monstrosities using old fashioned core technology.

We need vision, bold, commitment to succeed.

Adapt or be forgotten.

Just make it happen

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PR 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 7-Jul-2018 23:27:38
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1901
From: Suomi-Finland

Last job was to do some advertisement GFX work. Had to scan with pc, transfer to A1200 DPV, and was at home then to do the job as every pc drawing stuff is quite weird for an old school graphician. Then transfer back to pc for laser printing and net.

Call me old.

A bit of a work if You do the same.

---------

The management is Petro dancing and drinking what is fine. Gotta few A1200's.

Should be some serious, Trevor seems to be. Not in the history.

Doing my job 100% well in different areas from building houses, trees, cars, electric skooters, hotel management- this printing etc a lot more electric, water, roofs done for today.

Expecting the guys meanwhile do the coding as not my area.

Just a stupid customer and user.


Could it be that a good Boss (like PR, no time for there;) would say the Rules firmly, contact Samsung or some for drivers and the net like IB Team with all the new free code but pay for the dayjob and only one way. Forward.

Here the waiting has been more than two more weeks. Hate that joke.

Come forward the managers if any and do it right in our lifetime.

The last and eventually lost Amigafans.

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tommysammy 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 7:46:44
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2010
Posts: 644
From: Isselburg,Germany

Amiga Os4.1 ist still in developing but so slow you see no progress.
Developers don't listen to the users, they are living in his own world and lost the reality.
Communication with the community is bad too.
Amiga Os 3.1.4 development is very good. Enhancer too

Last edited by tommysammy on 08-Jul-2018 at 07:48 AM.

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Tuxedo 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 10:57:32
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2294
From: Perugia, ITALY

@thread

was about 5 years(from when was born my boy) since I'm coming an goind from the scene and the really worst thing was only one:

My much time away from reading news about AmigaOS4 was about 2 yearsw in that period and no really good news or tangible things released...

Pratically AmigaOS development was so SLOW that you can check every 4/5 months and dont loose anything about news etc...

Also another bad thing...checking so rarely let me see how Amiga scene was also tiny than before...I can see really poor activities on Amiga sites than in 2013...guys that checks every day maybe dont have that clear but for someone that checks rarely was really clear unfortunately...

Last but not least the hw situation...I really dont get the reason of X5000 since it was about the same of X1000(also slower in some areas) and also the Tabor(cheap but not so cheap and mainly SLOWWWWW)...
If Trevor&Co spent their money(probably a fraction) developing an emulator to run on x86 HW(something like Amithlon) and used that rest of the money to develop/buy AmigaOS4 today we maybe have some good enanchment(not Enancher) instead AmigaOS was quite stopped by years and no future sadly...

I really dont see anything so good on horizon unfortunately...

Nowadays when switching up my Pegasos2 I manily do it to use blender(to make projects for some furniture I've to do) and surf some Amiga sites but blender was so SLOW to render and OWB was SO OUTDATED that I've MANY difficulties use anything but Amiga sites...so why develop "new" and slow hardwares instead of some thing to speed p things and develop some new software taht was the reall FUEL for an OS?

Sorry...

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Micam 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 12:29:33
#33 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Posts: 91
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

In a way I can see that I am not the only one dreaming of a modern AmigaOS on Intel/AMD. So it would seem that some of you are "okay" with the way things are now, and others would like Amiga to get "Re-Kicked".

Now making, let's say "AmigaOS 5.x" a clean x86 OS that can run on all available hardware would make a difference. For me it is important to say that just converting the old OS to a new platform would make very little difference. You have to take in account where the IT marked is today, and offer what the users need today. Building an emulator in to the new OS, so you can run old games and software is a no brainer The fantasy of a dedicated Amiga hardware computer only makes sense if there is a modern OS to run on. I would even go so far as to say that making Amiga x86 licensed computers makes perfect sense for the passionate Amiga users.

Amiga is dying and forgotten if there is no serious OS and games/programs to run on it.

Is "Amiga" just a legal battlefield? What dos it take to end that? What is Cloanto doing with Amiga now, other than silence?

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cgutjahr 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 12:42:34
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 862
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga
Quote:

its probably good to support the company while you can.

No, it's not. The sooner we abandon this silly idea about "supporting" companies, the better. The desire to bend over just to "support" companies is what destroyed this market.

Quote:

how is "free" going to pay for development?

Nobody has paid for OS4 development for at least 8-10 years, why start now?

There aren't enough users left to pay for development anyway.

@jPV:
Quote:

1. Being open source doesn't mean anyone would actually develop it.

At least you could tell that nobody's working on a release. Right now, you have to wait some 3-5 years until you can conclude "I guess nobody's working on a release the last few years" - or you have to count the amount of lawsuits Hyperion or Hyperion's management is currently involved in to make an educated guess about the likelihood of a release.

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wawa 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 13:03:34
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6098
From: Unknown

@Micam

every now and then there is a thread by someone, usually someone who came back to this or similar site after some absence, who asks about the development of os4 and displaying disappointment with the state of affairs suggests that it should be open sourced and ported to x86.

funny enough the answer this time is as it always was (im kind of too bored to say it for millionth time, but here we go):
native amiga os on x86 exists and is open source. its called aros.
it has been developed with portability in mind and therefore it not only natively supports x86, but also_
1. x86_64 (where it even has multicore support, albeit in a not very advanced stadium of implementation, but it works),
2. arm (efika-xm or something like that, not being maintained right now, doesnt fully compile here)
3. ppc (sam440 and 460 is working tested in qemu) some further targets unmaintained
4. m68k (amiga, with some speed drawbacks in comparison to original system (1.x-3.x) but generally in a good state of maintenance)

...

(also funny, considering it also has gallium it already provides full functionality that was expected to be delivered with os4.2)

all these years you have had a chance to use of an amiga like ng os on hardware of your choice. thats just a question of engagement. you cannot expect to have complex commercial software like an os, within regular retail price around a hundred bucks or so for an audience of low hundred customers to sustain itself.

funny enough the audience feels entitled to dictate the course of enterprise, it has only been aware of circumstances it is in based on hearsay. but making bold demands towards whoever is suspected to own, license or simply is expected to deliver that software (os), especially demanding open sourcing is unrealistic to say the least.

take it or leave it, as it is.

Last edited by wawa on 08-Jul-2018 at 01:05 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 13:08:18
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6098
From: Unknown

@jPV

Quote:
Being open source doesn't mean anyone would actually develop it


but at least the sources are open and remain preserved, at least as long as there is anyone to host them.

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Micam 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 13:36:19
#37 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Posts: 91
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:

funny enough the answer this time is as it always was (im kind of too bored to say it for millionth time, but here we go):
native amiga os on x86 exists and is open source. its called aros.
it has been developed with portability in mind and therefore it not only natively supports x86, but also_
1. x86_64 (where it even has multicore support, albeit in a not very advanced stadium of implementation, but it works),
2. arm (efika-xm or something like that, not being maintained right now, doesnt fully compile here)
3. ppc (sam440 and 460 is working tested in qemu) some further targets unmaintained
4. m68k (amiga, with some speed drawbacks in comparison to original system (1.x-3.x) but generally in a good state of maintenance)
.


It's funny but it's true, and then not really. When I am talking about AmigaOS, I am not talking about the old OS that lacks in more than one way. It's true that AROS has been around for years, but lets face it, way would you install AROS if the only reason for doing this is running games? UAE dos the job just fine on more than one platform.

So it's true that a 3rd party has made an AmigaOS clone that runs on x86, but why? Would Microsoft stop development of Windows, just to let 3rd parties continue Windows development, and let Windows rot and let other OS's surpass. I don't think so. AmigaOS has to be officially developed from one company (open source is fine in some ways) with the aim of being a good alternative for other OS's.

www.amigaos.net is a nice site, BUT it's DEAD. Just look at www.ubuntu.com and other OS's websites. It's a sad joke No talk about new stuff, no time frame, just a commercial site to promote an OS that has seen nothing for years. And when OS4.2 comes out, you have to pay for it, and it is still years behind modern OS's.

I have been and are still a passionate Amiga user. My collection of Amiga hardware is: Amiga 4000 w/CyberstormPPC 060/604@233, Elbox tower, Xsurf 100 w/Rapidroad USB2, Repulse audio and lot's of software. My AmigaOne XE G4@800Mhz w AmigaOS4.1 and my CD32 for retro gaming

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wawa 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 14:24:41
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6098
From: Unknown

@Micam

Quote:
It's funny but it's true, and then not really. When I am talking about AmigaOS, I am not talking about the old OS that lacks in more than one way. It's true that AROS has been around for years, but lets face it, way would you install AROS if the only reason for doing this is running games? UAE dos the job just fine on more than one platform.


thats the same for other amigaos offshots like os4 or morphos. you dont need no updated os for old games. in fact you hardly need the os anyway. you may though need an amiga, good emulator or fpga amiga clone.

Quote:
So it's true that a 3rd party has made an AmigaOS clone that runs on x86, but why? Would Microsoft stop development of Windows, just to let 3rd parties continue Windows development, and let Windows rot and let other OS's surpass. I don't think so.


its not a question of intention. if ms went down backwards compatible windows alternatives might get ahead, depending on interest of the audience. same as there has been development of amiga (compatible) hardware beyond what commodore provided (take accelerators inclusive 060 or current fpga developments)

heck, guess what, there was further development of zx spectrum beyond sinclair;).

so no matter what aros, morphos and os4 all have build upon a declined os to start with, you may question the sense beyond them all together, but does that really matter?

Quote:
AmigaOS has to be officially developed from one company (open source is fine in some ways) with the aim of being a good alternative for other OS's.


thats your stance. what appears to be a fact is that:
1. there is hardly any officiality you can rely on in this community, you will always need to take sides personally, based on your conviction, like with warpos against power up or with morphos against os4 or with whatever (company) you happen to align with against any other (company).
2. anyway, there is obviously no company capable to steadily develop any offshot of amiga os.
3. open source and the involvement of (companies) seem to contradict in this scene.
4. no amiga os offshot will be a valid alternative to mainstream ever.

but then, feel free to discuss it on forums in one of these endless threads till the lights go out. it wont change a thing, but it may entertain whomever is interested in hoping and dreaming.

Last edited by wawa on 08-Jul-2018 at 02:25 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 08-Jul-2018 at 02:25 PM.

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ASiegel 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 16:01:09
#39 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 141
From: Unknown

@Micam

Quote:
When I am talking about AmigaOS, I am not talking about the old OS that lacks in more than one way.

Do you have any coherent thoughts on what it is you want exactly and how it must be different from existing choices to attract your interest?

You keep bringing up Ubuntu. If someone slapped a Spanish name and a bunch of boing balls on it, would that qualify as the solution you are seeking? If not, what would be lacking exactly?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Is AmigaOS still in active development?
Posted on 8-Jul-2018 16:53:05
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10896
From: Norway

@cgutjahr

Quote:
There aren't enough users left to pay for development anyway.


and this way switched to making software for developers.

Reading Facebook is not a hobby, development is a hobby.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jul-2018 at 05:22 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jul-2018 at 05:15 PM.

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