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      /  Hyperion is the end coming
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PosterThread
Spectre660 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 12-Aug-2018 13:25:57
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3891
From: Unknown

@amigakit

KL's comment in His "Upgrading Ubuntu Remix (A-Eon) to MATE 2017" thread shows the advanced level of Radeon video card support under AmigaOS 4.1 with the A-Eon drivers.

Linux powerpc has limited graphics card support for Southern Island cards and I have not heard of anyone getting a Polaris card to even boot yet.

Quote:
And I then could be disapointed by Linux on X1000 (slow even if both cores are used, Ethernet chipset limited to 350Mbs, RX 250 not fully supported -> no 2D or 3D acceleration, sluggish interface...).



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noXLar 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 12-Aug-2018 14:49:03
#82 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-May-2003
Posts: 723
From: Norway

@Wizzard_o

Agree with you there, just beautiful said:)

Need to congratulate all the developers & firms in getting this far.. clearly you all have struggled with all the negatives and destructive feedback's.. but, not all is, there is still sunshine around a lot of stuff still, keep it up!

But i also see a lot of fun and interesting projects & discussions.. it's amazing to see from time to time many crazy smart technical super computer nerds there here sometimes.. really is astonishing.

anyway, to all. big respect to you all for all the work its been done on all flavors..

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Trekiej 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 12-Aug-2018 15:25:09
#83 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 863
From: Unknown

@thread
Are there any xorro stories anyone would like to share?

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number6 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 12-Aug-2018 16:16:33
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11416
From: In the village

@thread

Re:the AF story linked in post #35

"Ben Hermans" replaced by "Hyperion" in the text.

#6

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BSzili 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 12-Aug-2018 17:18:53
#85 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 431
From: Unknown

@noXLar

Destructive feedback? If I was one of those darned "Amiga users" I'd feel like a super villain right now! If it weren't for those negative waves, we'd be light years ahead, I'm telling you.

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noXLar 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 12-Aug-2018 18:21:46
#86 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-May-2003
Posts: 723
From: Norway

@BSzili

hehe, yea.. we would.. :)

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dan.hutch 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 12-Aug-2018 21:26:54
#87 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 522
From: United Kingdom

@g01df1sh

Can Hyperion even sell on AmigaOS 4? I worry it might go down with the ship, if it hasn't already.

Would be a real shame for A-EON who have really 'kept the party going', even if that party is a bit muted.

Hope A-EON can somehow take over and continue with AmigaOS 4.

A1222 could be winner, ship it in the new Checkmark case, include OS4 for free with AmiStore preinstalled with some of the classic apps they bought updated for PPC ready to buy, add a sharp RuninUAE experience and you could have an attractive offering. No computing powerhouse, but a really nice alternative retro experience.

But I suspect by the time all the legal disputes are done it will be too late, if it isn't already.

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ne_one 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 12-Aug-2018 21:43:31
#88 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 905
From: Unknown

@Wizzard_o

Quote:

No, the biggest problem with "Amiga" is not Cloanto, not Hyperion, not Amiga INC. Its you guys, the users!


Please. It's not the trolls disputing this sanctimonious BS.

The community has been subsidizing fraudulence and ineptitude for decades and all they've ever really asked for is a that those in control either commit to the enterprise or open it up.

The demand is there, the willingness to pay exorbitant prices for the products has always been there and yet we're supposed to be happy with the middling scraps that are tossed our way every once in a while?

For years Hyperion had its small army of sycophants and even now many of them are hoping that the the company implodes.

Yes, the problem is the people but it's certainly never been the users.

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kolla 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 12-Aug-2018 22:00:27
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2093
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ne_one

Quote:
... now many of them are hoping that the the company implodes.

... before they suck 68k OS3 into the mess, yes.

Last edited by kolla on 12-Aug-2018 at 10:00 PM.

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Hans 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 2:28:07
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4930
From: New Zealand

@dan.hutch

Quote:

dan.hutch wrote:
@g01df1sh

Can Hyperion even sell on AmigaOS 4? I worry it might go down with the ship, if it hasn't already.

It doesn't matter if Hyperion can or can't sell the OS because the current owners of Hyperion could always sell Hyperion itself. That way it would still be Hyperion developing the OS, just with new owners (and a new management team).

Hans

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matthey 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 3:15:28
#91 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1476
From: Kansas

@BSzili
lol

Quote:

Hans wrote:
It doesn't matter if Hyperion can or can't sell the OS because the current owners of Hyperion could always sell Hyperion itself. That way it would still be Hyperion developing the OS, just with new owners (and a new management team).


I expect most contracts and legal settlements of Hyperion would be valid after it was bought out even if the Hyperion name disappeared. The big question in my mind is how much of the AmigaOS Hyperion actually owns. If contracted out parts are owned by individual programmers, the Reaction and Picasso96 contracts are too narrow to apply outside PPC or "AmigaOS 4", Cloanto or Amiga Inc. own some important intellectual property, etc., it could continue to be a legal nightmare to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

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clebin 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 10:29:25
#92 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1713
From: Unknown

@Wizzard_o

Quote:
I'm so glad I left the NG scene, so many zealots (Yest, I was one of them) on both sides bitching about this and that and seemingly not actually enjoying the systems they supposedly love so much.


You always were an unintentionally hilarious poster and this latest post is no exception. Spreading a message of "peace & love" while wildly swinging punches as you back out the door.

Congrats on your epiphany 10 years too late. You've been a true gem.

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Aslak3 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 19:25:44
#93 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@amigakit

Regarding drivers etc, a far more sensible strategy would be to spend time improving the Core OS, not writing drivers for functionally the same hardware. OS 4 developers spending time writing sound card drivers or network card drivers is entirely pointless. Instead the new boards for running OS 4 should be devoid of onboard peripherals (even if the connectors are simply omitted from the PCB), with a small set of PCIe cards, with known good drivers, being used to provide sound, networking etc. Even with graphics cards, there will be a second hand market for older cards for years. This idea of being able to run Amiga OS4 with the latest cards is pure ego stroking and worse, wasteful of effort.

MorphOS people got this right and AmigaKit/A-Eon have got it totally wrong.

Not that any of this matters; the "classic" Amigas will continue to run and be used for many years to come.

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Spectre660 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 19:34:19
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3891
From: Unknown

@Aslak3

As Morphos supports Sam460ex and X5000 on board stuff as the two newest supported motherboards there must be a flaw in your argument somewhere .

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amigakit 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 19:47:18
#95 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2430
From: www.amigakit.com

@Aslak3

I think from your post there is some confusion.

A-EON do not have any access to the core AmigaOS source code so cannot work on it. This is in the remit of Hyperion and their development team. If we owned core components, such as the graphics library, we would already have implemented X5000 DMA for example and released it.

A-EON owns drivers such as the RadeonHD, ATIRadeon, RadeonRX, Warp3D, Warp3D Nova and as such invests significant amounts in keeping them up to date and relevant. A-EON pays Hyperion a licence fee for each X1000, X5000 and A1222 sold so each customer receives OS4 with their system and Hyperion is accordingly responsible for provision of the software.

Secondly, A-EON has to be able to supply its retailers with up to date drivers so they can sell brand new systems to end users. I do not think it is desirable for many customers for a retailer to supply a second hand old graphics card in a new system.

Last edited by amigakit on 13-Aug-2018 at 07:52 PM.
Last edited by amigakit on 13-Aug-2018 at 07:48 PM.

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BSzili 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 19:55:43
#96 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 431
From: Unknown

@Aslak3

Unfortunately the embedded (yes, I said the e-word!) CPUs used on most of the new boards offer very little in terms of expandability, so you can't just chuck in a supported sound card or NIC, and be done with it.
With the graphics card drivers it always boils down to the argument that "you can get it new", but for one person to keep up with the new AMD cards is a Sisyphean task. And that doesn't even include the development of new 3D APIs from scratch. Interestingly used cards were never an issue before in the "Amiga NG scene", but now Hans is perpetually stuck doing driver development for the new cards AMD releases. It is, what it is.

Last edited by BSzili on 13-Aug-2018 at 07:56 PM.

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amigakit 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 20:13:21
#97 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2430
From: www.amigakit.com

@BSzili

Quote:
With the graphics card drivers it always boils down to the argument that "you can get it new", but for one person to keep up with the new AMD cards is a Sisyphean task. And that doesn't even include the development of new 3D APIs from scratch.


Because the OS4 2D and 3D graphics system has been left for so long (over a decade) without any development, the work that Hans embarked on in 2015 was sizeable. Remember we are playing catch-up with the mainstream which did not stand still in 2004.

The bulk of the work has now been done and it will be a much smaller task to incrementally keep the graphics drivers up to date than it was to make the graphics technology jump that we have just made.

Quote:
Interestingly used cards were never an issue before in the "Amiga NG scene", but now Hans is perpetually stuck doing driver development for the new cards AMD releases


There was no new hardware from the XE/SE/MicroA1 until the X1000 debut. When OS4 hardware was stuck on PCI and R200/R300 performance for over a decade, driver development was not relevant.

With the advent of the X1000 and X5000 with PCI Express, there was a pressing need to address this.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 20:35:48
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11416
From: In the village

@amigakit

Quote:
A-EON do not have any access to the core AmigaOS source code so cannot work on it. This is in the remit of Hyperion and their development team. If we owned core components, such as the graphics library, we would already have implemented X5000 DMA for example and released it.


Thank you.

You've posted several times about what you do have control over, but this is the first straight forward explanation I've seen that should answer some of the constant questioning about why x/y/z has not been done.

To save yourself some typing, would such information do you some good if included in your wiki? Then you could just point to that.

Otherwise, methinks you'll have to keep making the same post over and over. heh.

#6

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 20:46:13
#99 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9358
From: Unknown

@amigakit

Quote:
There was no new hardware from the XE/SE/MicroA1 until the X1000 debut.


Don´t forget SAM460EX (released in 2010, more than year before the X1000).

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amigakit 
Re: Hyperion is the end coming
Posted on 13-Aug-2018 20:49:25
#100 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2430
From: www.amigakit.com

@pavlor

Indeed, apologies to our friends at ACube who produced some good hardware from 2008 onwards (SAM 440ep/460ex/cr). They did a great job of helping keep the OS4 market going during these years.

Last edited by amigakit on 13-Aug-2018 at 08:51 PM.

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