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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
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PosterThread
Fl@sh 
..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 20:40:29
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 253
From: Napoli - Italy

Recently I'm looking to Vampire accelerators board and I think they are really really impressive.
The power of the new 'Mc68080' can be comparable to many powerpc cpus.
..so maybe could be great to unify the fork in amiga community and release a Os4.x for both Mc68k and ppc cpus.

Is there any chance to see this?

_________________
Pegasos II G4@1GHz 2GB Radeon 9250 256MB
AmigaOS4.1 fe - MorphOS - Debian 9 Jessie

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Tuxedo 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 20:44:05
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Fl@sh

if Hyperion will have $ to develop OS4 for that board, maybe better to port it on some better and standard hardware?
Why spend money to some closed and selled on few pieces hardware?

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OneTimer1 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 20:49:45
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 962
From: Unknown

@Fl@sh

Quote:


The power of the new 'Mc68080' can be comparable to many powerpc cpus.


Yes,the first mass produced powerpcs where slower than the new 'Mc68080'.


Quote:


..so maybe could be great to unify the fork in amiga community and release a Os4.x for both Mc68k and ppc cpus.

Is there any chance to see this?


Yes of course, if you can find someone paying the port.

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K-L 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 20:54:54
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1410
From: Oullins, France

@Fl@sh

Are you really comparing an MC 68080 with a 600Mhz PowerPC (minimum, really, to use AmigaOS 4.1) ?

And by experience, I can tell you that only a 1Ghz+ capable PowerPC with at least 1GB of RAM will make you AmigaOS 4.1 experience enjoyable.

Form what I can read, you've never used or seen AmigaOS 4.1 for real, did you ?

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AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz

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Fl@sh 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 20:59:26
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 253
From: Napoli - Italy

@OneTimer1

I don't know if it's true but I have read 'only' the first stock of Vampire boards has sold about 4000 units.
If numbers are confirmed I think there's room to make a port and get money from users, without look for (or wait) a 'big' donator.

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AmigaOS4.1 fe - MorphOS - Debian 9 Jessie

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K-L 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 21:08:00
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1410
From: Oullins, France

@Fl@sh

A port of what ? AmigaOS 4.1 ? Have you read my previous comment ?

Last edited by K-L on 21-Oct-2018 at 09:08 PM.

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cgutjahr 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 21:20:42
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@Fl@sh

Hyperion does not have the manpower or the rights to port OS4 to Vampire.

Not to mention porting your OS to an extremely exotic proprietary CPU that is only offered by a single vendor sounds like a move that would be considered very stupid even by Hyperion's standards.

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OneTimer1 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 21:22:34
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 962
From: Unknown

@Fl@sh

Quote:

Fl@sh wrote:
@OneTimer1

I don't know if it's true but I have read 'only' the first stock of Vampire boards has sold about 4000 units.



The Vampire was sold 120 times, maybe you are talking about the Vampire V2, a short look to the availability, makes me think it has sold less than 400 times.

Buying the Vampire V2 now seems IMHO a very bad idea. The Apollo/Vampire team ran into the 'Osborne-Effect' by an early announcement of the Vampire V4.

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Fl@sh 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 21:33:07
#9 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 253
From: Napoli - Italy

@K-L

I don't agree with you, sorry.
OS4.1 was released also for Amiga classics with Blizzard ppc boards, so I think the Vampire is quite comparable to these boards, maybe even faster..

OS4.1 itself is lightweight just like OS3.9, the horsepower is required rather by apps just like modern browsers, 3d games, scientific apps, just for examples.

So Os "core" experience should be not compromised and a lot of old apps could be ready for use.

_________________
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AmigaOS4.1 fe - MorphOS - Debian 9 Jessie

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Rob 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 21:40:04
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@OneTimer1

Quote:
The Vampire was sold 120 times, maybe you are talking about the Vampire V2, a short look to the availability, makes me think it has sold less than 400 times.


Where do you get your figures? The official figure is placed at almost 3000.

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Rob 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 21:46:05
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@Fl@sh

It would make more sense to add OS4 features to 3.1.4 than to port OS4 in it's entirety to 68k.

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tonyw 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 22:05:53
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course)

@Fl@sh

Don't forget that OS4.x is PPC only. It does not run on 68k hardware. It will only run on a Classic if said Classic has a PPC accelerator and lots of memory.

There is no way that OS4.x could ever be ported to run on 68k hardware. There isn't enough memory space for it (you need at least 512 MB just to run the basic OS) and code compiled for 68k would crawl.

_________________
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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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OneTimer1 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 22:28:56
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 962
From: Unknown

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote:
The official figure is placed at almost 3000.


The official figure announced the shipment of the Vampire V4 for September 2017.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 21-Oct-2018 at 10:33 PM.
Last edited by OneTimer1 on 21-Oct-2018 at 10:29 PM.

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matthey 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 21-Oct-2018 23:19:05
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

Quote:

Rob wrote:
It would make more sense to add OS4 features to 3.1.4 than to port OS4 in it's entirety to 68k.


I would rather have Olsen and ThoR enhancing a lighter weight version of the AmigaOS for 68k. Hyperion and some of the PPC devs don't care about the 68k from statements they have made and judging by 68k results. For example, the Frieden brothers last 68k Warp3D.library could be half the size. I almost have a working optimized version down to that (optimizing for performance not size). Offer me enough money and I will take it to half. Can software with 100% bloat ever have good performance? Did they even care about the horrible optimization or bugs? Is this intentional sabotage of the 68k? Is it incompetence and their PPC software is this poorly optimized too? In any case, do we want these devs making more 68k software?

Quote:

tonyw wrote:
There is no way that OS4.x could ever be ported to run on 68k hardware. There isn't enough memory space for it (you need at least 512 MB just to run the basic OS) and code compiled for 68k would crawl.


Not with 100% bloat.

Last edited by matthey on 21-Oct-2018 at 11:24 PM.

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number6 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 22-Oct-2018 0:27:07
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@thread

Re:porting code from OS4.x:

Olaf Barthel

#6

_________________
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monstercoder 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 22-Oct-2018 7:48:07
#16 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2017
Posts: 69
From: Unknown


Quote:

matthey wrote:
[quote]
the Frieden brothers last 68k Warp3D.library could be half the size. I almost have a working optimized version down to that (optimizing for performance not size). Offer me enough money and I will take it to half.



Talk is cheap, bring out your optimized warp3d.library and let's see whats it worth.
AFAIK you have produced very little compared to how good you say you are.

I can pay good money for vampyrized software btw.
And i'm not totally intollerant against bloat nowdays when the vampire has brought us loads of memory and horse power never seen before.


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wawa 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 22-Oct-2018 8:13:40
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

Quote:
Not to mention porting your OS to an extremely exotic proprietary CPU that is only offered by a single vendor sounds like a move that would be considered very stupid even by Hyperion's standards.


i think we are talking a simple m68k port with some essential asm optimizations here and there. aros did it, no technical reason it could not be done for os4 i suspect, except perhaps its hardware demands, lack of motivation and lack of talented manpower.

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wawa 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 22-Oct-2018 8:21:52
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Quote:

tonyw wrote:

There is no way that OS4.x could ever be ported to run on 68k hardware. There isn't enough memory space for it (you need at least 512 MB just to run the basic OS) and code compiled for 68k would crawl.


an interesting statement from os4 developer. since i mentioned aros can boot with no startup sequence with just 1,5mb ram and needs just about 6mb to boot to wanderer i have been confronted by os4 users trying to convince me os4 might almost keep up with just like about five times these ram requirements and ppc.
now i understand a half of gigabyte is a convenience figure considering regular application requirements. but then myself testing aros68k on amigas i was fine with 128mb running even aros version of owb. admittedly it crawled, but it worked. sure i do nor expect it to be enough for odyssey or opengl applications.

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wawa 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 22-Oct-2018 8:24:11
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@monstercoder

Quote:
Talk is cheap, bring out your optimized warp3d.library and let's see whats it worth.


actually matthey asm optimized warp3d years ago. i wouldnt claim the speedup has been breath taking, probably maximal in a range of a additional quater of speed, but well, he did it.

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Fl@sh 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 22-Oct-2018 8:24:42
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 253
From: Napoli - Italy

@tonyw

I know OS4.x was made for ppc only, but I hope it was written mostly in C code (maybe with small parts in ppc asm?)
In last years everytime someone asked for a port to x86/64, Arm, or any other modern ISA the first objection was related to big/little endian cpu arch.
Well 68k is big endian exactly like pcc, so porting to this (really well known by amiga coders) cpu should be simpler than anything else and it is for sure possible.

When os4.1 for classic amigas was released it was target to a only 128mb ram boards, I guess today it still works..

So the real node is does Hyperion wants, or not, port OS4 on vampire boards?
I repeat, there should be some rooms to do business with it, I'm not speaking to donate anything.

Last edited by Fl@sh on 22-Oct-2018 at 08:27 AM.

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