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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
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PosterThread
BigD 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 27-Oct-2018 14:12:09
#101 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Rob

Quote:
I also think you shouldn't be evangelising OS4 compatible hardware as hard as you do when you haven't even committed your own money to such a system.


It is blatantly obvious that if you are interested in 3D game or utilities that a Tabor (even with the SPE situation as a poor substitute to a full FPU) will ALWAYS be a better platform than ANY FPGA based Vampire machine.

.. and yes I am interested in both the Tabor AND the Vampire V4 standalone. I would NOT expect the Vampire to help with 3D accelerated graphics. However, a speed boost for Alien Breed 3D 2 etc would be fun!

Q. Will Alien Breed 3D 2 / Quake 2 / Duke Nukem 3D rejuvinate the Amiga platform even at Vampire speeds?
A: NO, though the Vampire is fun and may challenge the run of relaunched mini-consoles from the likes of Sony and Nintendo IMHO (if marketed correctly / marketed at all and manufactured in quantity).

Q. Could the Tabor rejuvinate the Amiga platform generally?
A. YES, for the short, medium and long term viability of AmigaOS and might even save Hyperion's bacon!

Those wanting Hyperion to fail have a vested interest in allowing the Tabor to fail IMHO and I'm not even a massive fan of the way Hyperion have been carrying on in the law courts. We need them for the Amiga to progress and as far as Amiga companies have acted historically I'd say Hyperion are one of the better ones! They deserve our support and the Tabor is at a good price point that could push the platform forward. The Vampire is a bonus / a bit of fun but has NO ROADMAP FOR THE MEDIUM TO LONG TERM! I'm as sad as anyone here that this is the case but it is.

Last edited by BigD on 27-Oct-2018 at 02:15 PM.

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kolla 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 27-Oct-2018 14:14:24
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@kolla

Quote:
Anyone with a smart phone has a device with more 3D capabilities (thanks to for example MALI) than Amiga ever had or ever will have, so why are so many obsessed with this? There is much larger and more important low-hanging fruit to be picked.


I assume that you have just thrown the AmigaOne machines out as not being Amigas. Shame on you if that is your view


No, I didn't, even when counting in AmigaOne, I suspect my statement holds water. Sad isn't it? :)

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bison 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 27-Oct-2018 15:34:08
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@BigD

Quote:
We need them for the Amiga to progress and as far as Amiga companies have acted historically I'd say Hyperion are one of the better ones! They deserve our support and the Tabor is at a good price point that could push the platform forward.

No they don't. Hyperion is a commercial entity, and their future success depends on providing products that consumers want to voluntarily purchase. No company "deserves" support.

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BigD 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 27-Oct-2018 16:02:04
#104 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@bison

Quote:
No company "deserves" support.


If you want future AmigaOS products the they have done 'enough' to deserve our support.

1) They have won the perpetual use of AmigaOS source code and the AmigaOS / AmigaOne IP from Amiga Inc.

2) They have successfully partnered with a hardware company A-EON / Varisys.

3) They have allowed the development of both Next Gen and 68k / Classic PPC versions of AmigaOS. This is more than Gateway / Escom and Amiga Inc did on the software front.

4) If you were really kind you could argue that they are safeguarding the Amiga IP for the future which is something Amiga Inc failed to do and still fail to do in their current guise forgetting to renew website licenses and trademarks which was even a requirement for the settlement with Hyperion!

Last edited by BigD on 27-Oct-2018 at 04:03 PM.

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kolla 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 29-Oct-2018 6:42:08
#105 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@CosmosUnivers

Quote:

There is no new softwares for MorphOS, or very few => the MorphOS Team will give up shortly, this OS is dead...


I think you don't understand what drives MorphOS developers.

To put it short, they have no ambitions other than satisfying their own itches, MorphOS is their hobby. They don't care about new software, other than software they make themselves, and they don't care about users, other than themselves. When you pay a license for MorphOS, you don't pay for a product, you pay for being allowed to use their pet system and for being tolerated on their forums etc.

Last edited by kolla on 29-Oct-2018 at 06:48 AM.

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kolla 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 29-Oct-2018 6:48:18
#106 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigD

Quote:
I'd say Hyperion are one of the better ones!


No, they are the worst.

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kolla 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 29-Oct-2018 6:58:15
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigD

Quote:

3) They have allowed the development of both Next Gen and 68k


Again - you must be joking. Hyperion has been a main reasons why 68k OS was not developed for more than decade, due to them claiming so called exclusive rights on OS 3.1 sources and exclusive rights to develop from them. It was only when Vampire came around that it became interesting for Hyperion to listen to the nagging of Olsen and ThoR and actually let them actually do something. And let them do it for free, all profit going back to Hyperion to fuel their ongoing lawsuits.

Also they have not "won" anything, as illustrated by their latest copyright changes to the kickstart, where they straight out admit that they don't own jack - "developed under license" (yet they cannot point to what "license" this is.)

Last edited by kolla on 29-Oct-2018 at 07:18 AM.

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ASiegel 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 29-Oct-2018 9:42:45
#108 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 212
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:
To put it short, they have no ambitions other than satisfying their own itches, [...] they don't care about users, other than themselves.

That's plain nonsense. User feedback drives a big part of the development efforts. For instance, Odyssey v1.25 was created specifically to address compatibility issues that had been frequently reported by MorphOS end users.

Quote:
When you pay a license for MorphOS, you don't pay for a product, you pay for being allowed to use their pet system and for being tolerated on their forums etc.

Nobody is required to buy a keyfile to register on MorphZone. Also, no revenue from MorphOS sales is used to pay for its hosting or domain fees.

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kolla 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 29-Oct-2018 14:51:40
#109 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ASiegel

I wrote "to put it short", which implied oversimplification.

Quote:

User feedback drives a big part of the development efforts.


Is it really? How are users involved in the development? It always seemed to me that user input largely only mattered if they aligned with the "itches" of the developers, not so much the needs of users.

Quote:
Quote:
When you pay a license for MorphOS, you don't pay for a product, you pay for being allowed to use their pet system and for being tolerated on their forums etc.

Nobody is required to buy a keyfile to register on MorphZone.


I wrote "tolerated", and again, oversimplifications. I wasn't aware that MorphZone is "official", always thought it was run by community members, and not MorphOS development team.

Quote:
Also, no revenue from MorphOS sales is used to pay for its hosting or domain fees.


Right, it's not really much of a revenue at all.

My point is that MorphOS development will continue as long as its developers find it satisfying to keep on developing it, which is unrelated to third party software and generated revenues.

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ne_one 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 29-Oct-2018 23:54:38
#110 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 905
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
If you want future AmigaOS products the they have done 'enough' to deserve our support


Enough of what exactly?

Setting aside its propensity for litigation and ability to alienate virtually everyone, this is a company that has consistently failed to deliver. It underestimated the port to PPC, produced incomplete and substandard results for its contracted efforts and become virtually dormant for the last decade.

If being marginally better than a merry band of incompetents and shysters is a form of entitlement then perhaps I'm just being shortsighted. Even Trevor Dickinson, who has been the poster boy for cheeriness has grown exasperated by all of this.

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Hammer 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 31-Oct-2018 13:51:38
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@Fl@sh

No we can't. This is about sustaining and growing and waiting for the next niche that AmigaOS can captialise on. The Smart Phone craze and Android / iOS bubble has come and gone as has tablets and digital personal assistants! AmigaOS didn't react to any of them and it might never fill a niche other than retro gaming ever again. But for it to grow to A500 levels again, it first has to survive and then adapt when the time is right. IMHO survival is NOT a given right now, despite the inspiring words from Amiga on the Lake regarding market share and new users etc at AmiWest. Buy a Tabor if it appeals because this could be the last throw of the dice the way I see it.

Intel has record profits and it's 14 nm fabrication constrained, hence x86 based 2-in-1 tablets/ultrabooks are still crazy.

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wawa 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 31-Oct-2018 15:06:34
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@bison

Quote:

bison wrote:
No they don't. Hyperion is a commercial entity, and their future success depends on providing products that consumers want to voluntarily purchase. No company "deserves" support.


exactly.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 31-Oct-2018 18:03:04
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12796
From: Norway

@ne_one

Compared to Amiga Inc? or Compared to H&P? or what exactly?

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kolla 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 31-Oct-2018 18:22:40
#114 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

According to the lovely Thomas Richter, OS4 already exists on Vampire, as OS 3.1.4 in a legal sense *is* OS4 on m68k. So I guess that should make everything clear.

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wawa 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 31-Oct-2018 21:02:46
#115 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
If you want Amiga to continue on 'modern' hardware then buy a Tabor.


wont happen.

as bison wrote: dont base your purchases on another wave of promises, but on what you want now.
amiga os wont survive anyway, at least not on terms you propose, as a relevant project comparable to current operating systems. live with it and prosper. its possible.

in this respct vampire, today, has way more chances than os4.x on ppc. exactly because the time to catch up, what os4 has attempted to, has past, while m68k remains a clearly defined "retro" platform, still relevant, viable and extendible today to those who propose a backwards compatible option.

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wawa 
Re: ..Any chance to see OS4 for Vampire boards?
Posted on 31-Oct-2018 21:11:06
#116 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

imo, not new, but we need to abstract ourselves from expensive hardware vendors. vampire still doesnt fit in this category, so it is okay, though, all sympathy i have towards it, i have still circumnavigated around it.

some may consider it an anti-social behaviour. but im simply not able to support every project i consider good, while i dont want to support war among emerging standards.

i dont welcome everything about vampire, but it still seems to be a good option so far. i might get an a1200 version if my funds allow. but for th time being an a1200 or a4000 is a good reference platform even for aros.

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