@Fl@sh

Quote:

So the real node is does Hyperion wants, or not, port OS4 on vampire boards?

Apparently they are struggling to provide full OS support for the existing boards. So while supporting the Vampire might bring in new customers interested in AmigaOS4, I really doubt Hyperion have the manpower (and money) to cater for yet another piece of hardware.

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @monstercoder Quote: Talk is cheap, bring out your optimized warp3d.library and let's see whats it worth. actually matthey asm optimized warp3d years ago. i wouldnt claim the speedup has been breath taking, probably maximal in a range of a additional quater of speed, but well, he did it.

Yeah exactly. it was "optimized" .
He should team up with cosmos and then maybe he could do wonders.

@monstercoder

Quote:

He should team up with cosmos and then maybe he could do wonders.

yeah. its been years. but as far as i remember there was some communication with cosmos on the subject, or even some exchange of experience and contributions. no need to pick on matthey, as if he did nothing, probably just because he takes part on lengthy technical discussions like that on improvements of m68k architecture, even if really leading nowhere.

@Trixie

Yes I understand all difficulties to support new hardware, but I don't think it can help Hyperion to make money and resolve their financial issues.
New hardware costs too much to be an hobby, OS4 diffusion will be still very limited.

Vampire customers can be much more than amigaone buyers, so there are much more possibilities to sell a OS4.x licenses and make some money.

My personal opinion is to go for both strategies and rejoin all AmigaOs 3.x/4.x under new AmigaOs compiled in both 68k and ppc flavors.

It could be really important for Amiga community, we need to evolve and don't use only WHDLoad and other old, no more developed, software in emulation mode.
For these tasks there's already UAE/WinUAE and it's superb.

Last edited by Fl@sh on 22-Oct-2018 at 12:19 PM.

_________________
Pegasos II G4@1GHz 2GB Radeon 9250 256MB
AmigaOS4.1 fe - MorphOS - Debian 9 Jessie

@Fl@sh

_________________
This is just like television, only you can see much further.

@Fl@sh

Quote:

I repeat, there should be some rooms to do business with it, I'm not speaking to donate anything.

Cosidering the excitment over a bug fixed Workbench 3.1 release in AmigaOS 3.1.4 Hyperion could sell old pieces of white and red paint sprayed rope and get people to buy it for a profit! However, Amiga 4.x development should be focused on next-gen, modern machines and the Vampire does not qualify as modern hardware. 4.1 for the Classic is a toy pure and simple and the Vampire does not change that.

Last edited by BigD on 22-Oct-2018 at 11:53 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Thread

In my view sales from AmigaOS 3.1.4 are a life line for Hyperion giving them some income while the delayed Tabor is readied for release. If the Tabor is not a success then Hyperion will start an even more vicious fight for survival IMHO. At that point all there energy would be thrown into the Classic market with Cloanto likley to face perpetual legal wranglings with Hyperion from that point! The only healthy future for Hyperion is with a healthy PPC AmigaOS business model based around A-EON's hardware but they are struggling to find a business model that will work

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Fl@sh

About as much chance as the Vampire boards supporting PowerPC software.

For this to be viable the 68K core would need to run at 1Ghz minimum and have 2GB RAM as these are the average minimum specs of an OS4 machine.

But, isn't there already a newly released fork of OS4 for 68K, called OS 3.1.4?

Well, not quite, but almost close enough.

I don't know if anything could be done to unify the fork in the Amiga scene. Prevention is better than cure. But I don't think anything can be a cure and heal the splits now. Right now, be it 68K or NG, official or unofficial, anything Amiga is from people who have their own ideas of what and how it should be.

I see the Vampire as dividing us more. Sure it's amazing for what it does. But it aims to create a custom 68K with 64-bit extensions. And extend the chipset in a way that doesn't look exactly like AAA to me. Perhaps cleaner than doing it with PC cards as it's all integrated. When it really comes into its own on an A500 the A500 won't be an Amiga anymore as it will be powering a computer that simulates an extended Amiga in an FPGA. And when the stand alone is here there will be another Amiga based machine on the market.

If someone did the obvious thing and created a card with an extended Amiga chipset, and the 68K emulated on an x86 (for example), that used the Amiga as an input device, would we be as welcoming? In any case I've drifted off topic.

Last edited by Hypex on 22-Oct-2018 at 12:38 PM.

@BigD

Sorry custom made hardware makes only sense if it adds value to mass produced hardware. You could (as a example) create custom made hardware for a certain market like embedded hardware or a graphics workstation. The only added value the Aeon hardware offers is that 4.X runs on it, the components are standard hardware, nothing special that makes it interesting. So most of the Tabor boards propably replace aging PPC amiga hardware but not add new users. I do not see any business model around it in real world terms. To make AmigaOS modern including full 64bit, SMP and MP you have to change a lot of internal and you would need software that justifies buying it. We talk about plenty of money.

@OlafS25

Hyperion have no money so there is no logical point to your suggestions. Push on with PPC for as long as possible is the only way forward and if the Tabor is not a success then that is the end of the road for NG AmigaOS. I have peace about that and that's why I should buy a Tabor if I want the party to continue

The only thing holding the Amiga back is software and once the Tabor is out that should be the focus (as Trevor has already said at AmiWest). New versions of Octamed, ImageFX and Aladdin4D and a modern browser and we're back in business That and port Cuphead by cutting a deal with Microsoft

Last edited by BigD on 22-Oct-2018 at 12:50 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 22-Oct-2018 at 12:49 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

I like Tabor a lot and I hope it will sell enought to let AmigaNG ecosystem go on.
I'd like to buy one and develop on it and use it, non only for fun.
But.. when we could buy it, and how much we need to spent? These are my doubts..

A500 sold a lot because it was innovative, very cheap and present in big volumes in the worldwide market, can we say the same for Tabor?

_________________
Pegasos II G4@1GHz 2GB Radeon 9250 256MB
AmigaOS4.1 fe - MorphOS - Debian 9 Jessie

@Fl@sh

No we can't. This is about sustaining and growing and waiting for the next niche that AmigaOS can captialise on. The Smart Phone craze and Android / iOS bubble has come and gone as has tablets and digital personal assistants! AmigaOS didn't react to any of them and it might never fill a niche other than retro gaming ever again. But for it to grow to A500 levels again, it first has to survive and then adapt when the time is right. IMHO survival is NOT a given right now, despite the inspiring words from Amiga on the Lake regarding market share and new users etc at AmiWest. Buy a Tabor if it appeals because this could be the last throw of the dice the way I see it.

Last edited by BigD on 22-Oct-2018 at 01:15 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 22-Oct-2018 at 01:13 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Fl@sh

Tabor is a cheap (in amiga PPC terms) entry PPC hardware running AmigaOS. The next buyable amiga PPC hardware is much more expensive. Not more, not less.

@Fl@sh

Quote:

A500 sold a lot because it was innovative, very cheap and present in big volumes in the worldwide market, can we say the same for Tabor?

Tabor is not innovative, is not cheap and is not inline comparing prize performances with actual market... by the way it is the cheapest amigaos 4 machine.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

@tlosm

NO Amiga computer is cheap.

Try to buy anything Amiga related that doesn't cost a huge amount of money whether it is for Classic or NG (and whether it is used or new).

The Amiga market is NOT cheap nowadays. Period.

(And it canoot be compared with anything named "actual market").

_________________
PowerMac G5 2,7Ghz - 2GB - Radeon 9650 - MorphOS 3.14
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz

@Fl@sh

Quote:

The power of the new 'Mc68080' can be comparable to many powerpc cpus.

As far as we know, performance of this "68080" is comparable to 68060 150-200 MHz (at best) with much faster memory. This far bellow specs of most AmigaOS4 compatible computers. Note OS4 requires MMU and I´m not sure "68080" is complex enough to run hypothetical 68k OS4 fork.

If anyone wants to use OS4, Tabor may serve this need (when released...). Until then, WinUAE supports PPC/OS4 right now with no extra cost for customer or Hyperion.

@BigD

Quote:

...if the Tabor is not a success then that is the end of the road for NG AmigaOS.

Yes, and then what happens?

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@OlafS25

Quote:

Tabor is a cheap (in amiga PPC terms) entry PPC hardware running AmigaOS.

funnily enough if this "last chance entry" really ever gets released, all it might have been entry to will likely be already obsolete and discontinued.

Last edited by wawa on 22-Oct-2018 at 07:43 PM.

@pavlor

Quote:

Until then, WinUAE supports PPC/OS4 right now with no extra cost for customer or Hyperion.

Assuming you have a PC sitting idle at home. That's hardly a given . My PeeCee is a MacBook Pro which is full with two macOS partitions and a Windows 7 one. There is hardly any room to install Cuphead (my next purchase) because I've kept that partition small as the macOSes are my main operating systems and they fill up when video editing. I hardly think messing around with OS4.x on WinUAE is a good use for this system. I'd rather have that proper Amiga feeling on a brand new machine thanks.

Last edited by BigD on 22-Oct-2018 at 08:08 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@bison

Quote:

Yes, and then what happens?

There will be no 'new' AmigaOS if that happens. AmigaOS will not survive on x86-64 just as BeOS didn't survive. AmigaOS3.1 is a dead end fork for retro enthusiasts. The Vampire will not lead to a new NG platform on 68k it will simply reinvigorate the Amiga 68k retro scene. That is different. If you want Amiga to continue on 'modern' hardware then buy a Tabor.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios