@outlawal2

I didn't necessarily mean you.

Quote:

I just wonder how Raspberry PI were able to provide their unit to the world at that low price when they started with ZERO market at all?

One thing that helped was a lot of charity. According to Wikipedia (and therefore it must be true (TM)), they auctioned the first 10 boards on eBay and "raised over 16000£." Other advantages probably include successful lobbying of investors with a very, very focused campaign, and freedom from legacy: legacy OS, legacy hardware, and perhaps most importantly, legacy of lawsuits. RPi didn't try to recreate the old Acorn; they just threw out some hardware that they knew hobbyists would like and educators would use.

What have the various Amiga parties have tried to do? Aside from sue the life out of each other, they've tried to preserve something exactly the way it worked 30-35 years ago, while incrementally improving it, rather than abandoning it, starting afresh, and making old stuff usable via emulation.

-- well, one correction to that. Amiga Inc. actually tried to do that, using TAOS and all that. They were just either too incompetent or too unlucky to see it through, maybe both. Meanwhile the community hated them for even suggesting the TAOS route, rather than outdated custom chips and an obsolete OS.

What's left of the community has its purist Amiga, complete with custom chips and an obsolete OS. And it's still not happy. Go figure.

_________________
I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@DFergFLA

I am the owner of an X5K for 2 years now. Also a Tabor beta tester. Have owned the X1K too but sold that to move onto the X5K. Still have a SAM440 based Relec the Red One too. I enjoy them all as hobby machines.

Sure I dream we can get a somewhat better browser and I would be happy to pay for that yearly for updates, but I have other systems that I use for real work. They are easy to have.

I would say if you have any inkling of want for the X5K, get one. The owners of these boxes all say they enjoy them and I am sure you would too.

Just make sure to have something else for real work. Maybe one day we will get a better browser that could help. That is about the 1 thing I feel is missing from the land of Amiga that would allow some of us NG owners able to use the systems more for everyday stuff.

TJ

Last edited by amigasociety on 13-Dec-2018 at 11:56 PM.

@cha05e90

No on 68k it is not better. 68k does not need to measure with current stuff. 68k have a lot of good 68k software. NG Amigas should measure a little bit with current stuff but even that does not succeed.
Browser, Office, Printing, Multicore, USB3, hardware acceleration video playback etc. All this things are missing. The list of missing things gets longer every year. I can do the same stuff on my Amiga600/Vampire2 that I did on the X5000. Even my Amiga600 works more stable and i don't get every five minutes a greamreaper. Do not get me wrong, X1000 and X5000 are great hardware, the big problem is the unstable OS and missing software. I was unlucky with the NG Amiga

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Amiga600/Vampire2/PrismaMegaMix

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Sadly the configures scripts where written on Linux, and depends on lots of lots of Linux stuff, can't expect everything to be compiled for AmigaOS.

When trying to configure programs I find most trouble I have is path confusion. Where the Linux path failed to convert to the Amiga side. Or things like this:that which specify something like this linking to that, or similar get passed over and then the Amiga looks for this: volume.

Abc-shell is not good enough. It sits on top of Shell. And the SDK tools doing the work need to be POSIX path sensitive as well.

I think we need a real bash like shell for the Amiga. A full terminal application that only works in POSIX path semantics. Of course it would need to be matched to POSIX compatible SDK bin tools.

Even cross compiling can break. I can't cross compile GDB because it breaks at some point. Can't compile it on OS4 either. Chicken and egg. OS4 has no working GDB in current SDK. So annoying.

Quote:

I'm having problems with GREP command now, it tells me that any directory I try to recursively grep is not directory. I'm not sure if the was always so bad or if grep as replaced by updater tool..

That reminds me. I am seeing similar problems. Again the dreaded configure script is failing because it complains a temp file exists or something. Or is confused as to what is a file or folder. Well delete it. Move on. What is it's problem?

Apart from this there is CMake. Which looks very neat compared to configure. I've got it to work on OS4 but it gets more complicated as time goes on. Had to hack my SObj dir for the last version to work at all. Amiga software should be static, despite the bloat, as dynamic libs just don't suit it unless they are all included without conflicting with the system. I don't see this.

Cross compiling with CMake and MickJT's tool file does work for me though at times.

@outlawal2

Yes 500$ versus 37$

No software

Needed support is removed from GCC now

Your turn...

Overheating by fully use several cores...

Hmm let me think... SMP support in AmigaOS? Never heard of that but perhaps you have more informations. The rest is speculation, you compare something available with something not available regarding storage speed, we will see what the real numbers are if available

If you want to buy this hardware no problem to me but it will still only add few users and expecially will create no interest outside

Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-Dec-2018 at 10:22 AM.

@OlafS25

Quote:

No software

Really, AmigaOS has 'no software' compared to the Pi? I don't recall hearing about the Pi having killer apps as it is more to do with being a cheap developer environment and getting kids into coding etc! It doesn't try to be a desktop computer like the Amiga! RiscOS would be nice to try but what else am I missing?!

Last edited by BigD on 14-Dec-2018 at 11:28 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 14-Dec-2018 at 11:27 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD



Quote:

Really, AmigaOS has 'no software' compared to the Pi?

https://www.raspbian.org/

Quote:

Raspbian provides more than a pure OS: it comes with over 35,000 packages, pre-compiled software bundled in a nice format for easy installation on your Raspberry Pi.

Pretty sure that's more than is available for AmigaOS.

Last edited by terminills on 14-Dec-2018 at 11:51 AM.
Last edited by terminills on 14-Dec-2018 at 11:50 AM.

_________________
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Way are you using the X1000 kernel on on AmigaONE XE? Its designed for PA. Semi PA6T not a G4, PowerPC CPU's are designed for different ISA's

Sorry but that wasn't what I meant. I'm not trying to use the X1000 kernel on the XE, which would crash from the get go. What I meant was Odyssey itself. How it compares on each system.

Quote:

I don't think it’s the kennel that is unstable. I think something might not be 100% right with intuition or the new AmigaShell as doing lots of debugging, I'm dumping lots of text in Shell window, while doing that moving the Shell window can freeze my system.

That's one thing I haven't seen in the shell. But I haven't used it as a big dumping ground nor dragged it all around.

Why I mention the kernel is that I've found an anomaly I've only seen on the X1000. I've had crashes when signalling a task from an interrupt. Now this has been a perfectly legal system method for years, but on the X1000, sending two signals in quick succession will cause a crash. This may be a rare condition. But I've confirmed there is a kernel issue in this regard by isolating code down to a small example that can generate the crash every time. Though I've found in some cases running from shell or WB can make a difference.

I suspect MUI has some bug. I changed my video card. Then found Odyssey crashed immediately. Something or some thought lead me to check the MUI settings. I check my screen modes. For some reason, the screen I set up for email was fine, but the screen I set up for browsing was corrupted. In both cases they are marked as being like WB. But the browser screen was defaulted to 800x600, even though 1920x1080 was the mode WB was using, and trying to open it froze the system. I had to remove then add another, that looked the same, like WB.

Now, before the freeze, I can see the grey box outline of a window. The same happens now when Odyssey crashes. Both MUI related. I hooked up my serial cable but it decides not to crash when that is plugged in.

Quote:

Anyway bad thread handling is recurring problem I see with programs, ported to AmigaOS or written for AmigaOS, I think it's to be blamed for lots memory corruption.

Yes, this reveals another problem, that was thought to be worked around. AmigaOS doesn't have true threads. Neither software or hardware threads and only one CPU core running. Despite the AmigaOS is a task and programs are threads analogy, this doesn't help. Any threads in AmigaOS are really child processes which means, though they have a parent, they are still separate processes. In fact, I've been told that the AmigaOS kernel actually runs inside an interrupt, and just the programs run as tasks.

@terminills: Yes, but we are talking about Linux here. There is no real "RPi-OS", just a customized Linux-Distro for the Pi. You can use Linux on NG-Amigas, too.

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AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

@AP

Risc OS f.e.

@BigD

"try" is a good word here

@terminills

Quote:

terminills wrote: https://www.raspbian.org/ Quote: Raspbian provides more than a pure OS: it comes with over 35,000 packages, pre-compiled software bundled in a nice format for easy installation on your Raspberry Pi. Pretty sure that's more than is available for AmigaOS.

So not a fair comparison then since you're talking about Linux. A cheap box for Linux has its benefits but it isn't in direct competition with the X5000 ot Tabor.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@OlafS25: True, but still: If you bring Linux (and Raspbian IS LInux) as argument in terms of software availability than you have to compare it to Linux on Tabor, not to AmigaOS.

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AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

@AP

Risc OS is not Linux

No software obviously creates discussions... even if you say more software on Tabor/X5000 than on RPi still the rest I said is true

X5000 certainly is better than RPi but then you compare 37$ with 2000$

Even if Tabor is a little better on hardware (I am still not convinced there) the big price difference is there, additionally the hardware must be supported by OS what is not the case regarding AmigaOS (I only say missing SMP and Gallium). I understand why a custom hardware in small batches must be much more expensive than a unit sold in millions but because of that custom hardware makes no sense for us.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-Dec-2018 at 01:34 PM.

Thanks everyone for their suggestions an input. As for using Linux on x5000 for webrowsing and/or using an other PC/Tablet etc.. Here is how I feel.. A great deal of what I do is online. Without decent webrowsing I probably wouldn't use the x5000 much. Making it an expensive toy that would more than likely not get used.

Webrowser aside, AmigaOS does almost everything else I need to be a good 2nd PC. Plays Music/Videos and some minor productivity things. So, if the browser ever gets done. The Amiga would be a PC I could actually use. Not for everything, but enough to justify spending the money.

I love Amiga, I will always hope and want the best for the platform. But, it just boils down to me feeling I won't use it enough to justify the cost.

Thanks

Donald

@OlafS25

Yeah that is a tough one. You say custom hardware does not make sense for us and yet in my mind different hardware is a fundamental reason why I like the Amiga. Since day one it has had different hardware and to this old man that distinction should remain. (I understand that on paper it makes no sense at all, but this is about FEEL)

I am willing to pay more to keep this platform exclusive.. Considerably more, but as I have stated before NOT $2000 more! This is why for me the Tabor is exactly what I have been waiting for.. An exclusive (well MOSTLY exclusive) mainboard that I can build my own NG Amiga for what I consider to be a fair price.. (Less than $600)

I know that on paper it makes much more sense to port to x64 but then what you have is AROS and I haven't seen where that has gone much of anywhere. And I believe the reason for this is that different hardware is required to obtain the real FEEL of Amiga. And feel is what we are talking about here. Amiga will never again compete toe to toe with PCs, Macs or even Linux for that matter so preserving the feel of the Amiga is vital to it's survival..

And I think that requires specific hardware. IE not PC hardware.

@DFergFLA

What about the Tabor? (If it ever actually arrives?)
Considerably lower cost for sure.. Would the difference in cost justify it for you considering what you stated before?

Just curious..

And I just have to say that this exchange has been one of the most enjoyable I have had on an internet forum in some time.

No anger, no BS, just decent people exchanging their points of view intelligently and respectfully.

THIS FOLKS is what forums are supposed to provide.

Thank you!

@OlafS25: >Risc OS is not Linux

Of course I know that (and where did I write this?)

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AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

@outlawal2

Tabor is possible. I am with holding judgement on that system till it is released.. But, I dream of a new browser. It's Christmas, maybe we could all ask Santa. Couldn't hurt at this point.