@monstercoder

I could say the same... this is not about amigaos

@monstercoder

we simply care for amiga, not necessarily for amigaos, whatever you mean with it.

@wawa

obviously 2.X and 3.X

Last edited by OlafS25 on 08-Jan-2019 at 01:08 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 08-Jan-2019 at 01:07 PM.

@kolla

I hope too that Magellan works on it ;)

@monstercoder

The obvious reason being that it is not entangled in Hyperion's drama theater, and not being developed by people who treat the OS as their baby pet that noone else must be allowed to touch?

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@Wawa

Great news and thx for your work. One of the reasons I have almost decided to not buy Vampire was the OS limitation. AmigaOS 3.1 from 30 years ago. Come on! With AROS we have a compatible and much more mothern OS to run on Vampire, then it is much more apealing.
With Vampire hardware I don't think AROS will feel slower than original AmigaOS. At least not if we get some native gfx drivers. It might even be faster. Open source as AROS is will not limit what people like or can do with it. AROS has a future and the only possible path for a future Amiga system.

I urge you all to ignore or feed Monstercoder.

Last edited by nikosidis on 08-Jan-2019 at 04:10 PM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 08-Jan-2019 at 04:09 PM.

@nikosidis

for some even the vampire and FPGA is only "emulation" and not "real amiga", only 20 years old hardware is ;). So it is certainly not for everyone. But at least it makes the future safe so even if 3.X is out of game there would be still Aros. In the meantime at least some will dualboot on the vampires

@wawa

Nice!


@monstercoder

AROS developers are working in their free time, they don´t want your money or even soul... no one forces you to use AROS. Sure most of us will stay with good old AmigaOS, but choice is always good.

@monstercoder

Quote:

monstercoder wrote: @tlosm Do you really think a non amiga operating system could be standard on amiga?

Weren't we talking regarding Vampire here? Besides, it's quite clear your lack of knowledge of the project...

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@nikosidis

Quote:

nikosidis wrote: @Wawa Great news and thx for your work. One of the reasons I have almost decided to not buy Vampire was the OS limitation. AmigaOS 3.1 from 30 years ago. Come on! With AROS we have a compatible and much more mothern OS to run on Vampire, then it is much more apealing. With Vampire hardware I don't think AROS will feel slower than original AmigaOS. At least not if we get some native gfx drivers. It might even be faster. Open source as AROS is will not limit what people like or can do with it. AROS has a future and the only possible path for a future Amiga system. I urge you all to ignore or feed Monstercoder.

LOL @ native drivers!
The 2nd cpu thread is used to act as the SAGA blitter. There is no magical super gfx chip coded into the Vampire. This is also why there is no hardware 3D functions in "SAGA" yet. There is no SAGA "chip"/set that requires drivers. It's just software routines running on the other thread. Since AOS doesn't know anything about a dual-threaded 68k, it's a simple solution...I supposed. Not an ideal one if you ask me.

Anyway - long live AROS!

@Lou

Not this version of the stand alone Vampire but next version I heard will have some native GPU if ever to happen.

There is mention of some initial V4 GPU work on the Apollo forum (see the "User Contribution to Development On Vampire" thread).

Various ideas/features have been discussed in IRC but at the moment nothing is being promised or concrete, for example some discussions were on Voodoo-like features.

Last edited by gregthecanuck on 09-Jan-2019 at 12:49 AM.
Last edited by gregthecanuck on 09-Jan-2019 at 12:41 AM.
Last edited by gregthecanuck on 09-Jan-2019 at 12:37 AM.
Last edited by gregthecanuck on 09-Jan-2019 at 12:35 AM.

Quote:

Lou wrote: The 2nd cpu thread is used to act as the SAGA blitter. There is no magical super gfx chip coded into the Vampire. This is also why there is no hardware 3D functions in "SAGA" yet. There is no SAGA "chip"/set that requires drivers. It's just software routines running on the other thread. Since AOS doesn't know anything about a dual-threaded 68k, it's a simple solution...I supposed. Not an ideal one if you ask me.

AmigaOS 3.x has the 2D planar gfx driver integrated into the graphics.library (provides abstraction from and arbitration to the hardware). This integration was a poor design decision but RTG systems now rely on it. For example, P96 checks a bit to see if a bitmap is a RTG bitmap and branches to the equivalent RTG function in a modular driver if it is (SAGA RTG also uses a P96 2D chunky gfx driver). AmigaOS 3 should add RTG by separating the gfx driver from the graphics.library but this would need support for P96 and CGFX device drivers or lose support for some gfx cards. AROS is likely trying to avoid this problem and create a better design from the start. It is possible to use SAGA or OCS/ECS/AGA directly without drivers but programs which bang the hardware are not known for sharing resources. The tiny performance advantage from banging the hardware decreases as CPU performance increases.

Quote:

nikosidis wrote: Not this version of the stand alone Vampire but next version I heard will have some native GPU if ever to happen.

More optimization for an FPGA to squeeze in some minimal GPU support most likely. Sigh.

@matthey

after i have now an a600 with vampire on my desk in front of me i think it is actually cool for what it is. sure we can discuss design decisions, but it indicates what can be done with a n amiga concept and 68k and if anybody comes over and offers something better, then so be it;) we will have aros runing on it as well;) and therefore the whole amiga software legacy,. and this is what we want, right?

Last edited by wawa on 09-Jan-2019 at 12:44 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 09-Jan-2019 at 12:43 AM.

@wawa

For me I just want the system to evolve as it would have if Motorola and Commodore hadn't f*cked it up. Vampire is doing that both with the CPU and the graphics system.

The operating system is another problem all to itself as we can see in these discussions. :)

Last edited by gregthecanuck on 09-Jan-2019 at 12:53 AM.

"But it indicates what can be done with a n amiga concept"

Wow I know some experience talking with themselves but actually meeting themselves from the past? really? what can be done with an "amiga concept"? LOL. It's fake! it's not an Amiga! what now you suddenly want the Amiga to be a more fluid determination? I'll be damned. It's almost like you're here just for your own interests advancing your niche x86 os with a developer's appeal rather than a user's and calling that a derivative.

You all wanna know what's wrong with Amiga? this is what's wrong with the Amiga - that the same ones who did so much to disturb whatever happened with the X1k and other survival attepmts both in os and hardware form are now asking for support for basically the same thing. Do you really want support? because my instincts are to tell you to go eff yourselves. Only some of us look beyond that and think the Vamp is a pretty cool development for whatever it's supposed to do, which I have a feeling I can describe better than some of you irrelevant industry peeps.

My suggestion to the Vamp peeps is to move away from those who only see this multiverse version of the platform as a world where they can advance their interests and theirs alone.

Last edited by Srtest on 09-Jan-2019 at 01:09 AM.

@Srtest

as usual, you are too sofisticated for me, but its comes over, that as usual, you are upset again. sorry to see that. and im not asking your support, certainly.

Last edited by wawa on 09-Jan-2019 at 02:12 AM.

Quote:

wawa wrote: we will have aros runing on it as well;) and therefore the whole amiga software legacy,. and this is what we want, right?

Some of us do. Others were apparently never satisfied with their Amiga and wanted it to be a PC clone (in fact PCs have always been a monkey on the Amiga's back).

Personally I am sick of PCs, and have come back to the platform I know and love. Amazing that the A1200 I have had for 25 years is still going strong, even able to go on the net and make this post! All I want now is sufficient software and hardware support to be able to keep doing that, which is why I bought a Vampire and an A600 to put it in. And it's amazing - this is what it should have been, and more! (yet I still use the A1200 more becaue for most stuff it's fine).

Back in the day I had an A3000 with 50MHz 060 and RTG card. That had almost the same performance as my Vampired A600, but at hugely greater cost (~NZ$10,000 in 1993 dollars). I sold it because web browser compatibility was becoming an issue and I didn't want to waste even more money trying to keep up with PCs. 20 years later even my ridiculously over-powered PC can't keep up with PCs!

IMO Windows XP is the best version of Windows, so I refuse to 'upgrade' to Windows 10. Similarly I think WB3.1 is just about perfect for my Amiga. OS 3.9 is bloatware, OS4.1 is a misguided attempt to keep up with PCs, and AROS is a joke.

But that's just me. I like having an Amiga that's the same as it was in 1993. Some others don't.

@wawa

Quote:

and therefore the whole amiga software legacy, and this is what we want, right?

Sure, but Vampire by design does not offer this, that's exactly the problem.

Last edited by kolla on 09-Jan-2019 at 05:31 AM.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

back on subject i have rtg working. but the driver doesnt seem to work very well. looks like alphablitting is a problem. moving the mouse cursor is laggy and interrupts other grahical operations. it isnt really usable in that state. i cant really compare to the genuine system atm unfortunately. looks like i need to ask around the team.