Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5619 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 94 guest(s) on-line.
 2 member(s) on-line.


 Spectre660,  sundown

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 sundown:  3 mins ago
 Spectre660:  4 mins ago
 NutsAboutAmiga:  6 mins ago
 AmeegaGuy:  9 mins ago
 amigakit:  9 mins ago
 bennymee:  10 mins ago
 -Sam-:  13 mins ago
 utri007:  15 mins ago
 eliyahu:  19 mins ago
 amigasociety:  26 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
Poll : Is it time to join forces?
Yes, the current situation is not sustainable
No, there is no longer any ways of doing that
 
PosterThread
Hypex 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 20-Jan-2019 16:10:32
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9426
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
I can only say it has been successful when we have joined forces, in the past, like Directory Opus 4 / and Directory Opus 5, work on all systems, MUI5 also works on MorphOS and AmigaOS at least. OWB / odyssey its also example of cooperation.


Perhaps Petah can clarify this but I took "pooling our resources" to mean what you put above. And "joining forces" to mean all the Amiga divisions to come together as one and share OS code.

I see no problem cooperating on large scale projects like Dopus, MUI or OWB.

Quote:
So it is possible, the thing that stops cooperation is ego and free will, you can't force people to cooperate, and EGO, some reinventing the wheel instead of helping out on an existing project.[/quote

I agree. Human nature will drag down humans. Another thing I would add it pride. Where arrogance and boasting can also stem from. As well as selfishness. If Amiga companies in this age weren't run by adults the way they go up against each other would simply look childish.

[quote]For example how many file manager exists on Amiga, won't it be better if to have one good file manager instead many that stinks?


One. One would be good enough. Because one good file manager would be better than only poor choices.

Quote:
Toolbars is another example, lots of toolbars insted of using one that already works, we keep making new ones that don't, for example XDOCK vs AMIDOCK vs Push4Dock, and so on. There is also AmigaStart, Excalibur and lots of other as well.


That's true. Push4Dock is nice. I don't know why X-Dock was created. If only to give another choice against an ageing AmiDock.

Quote:
Same thing with picture viewers, lots and lots of bad ones insted of working on one really good one.


I tested a few and found them slightly lacking. I just wanted to go through a drawer like a slideshow. And have it scaled on screen.

Recently I wanted to crop an image and then combine it into others. I tried ImageStudio which could do it but will only work with one image at a time. ImageFX Lite can't load JPEGs. Then I thought LodePaint might be worth a try only to find it needs MiniGL which my R7 250 doesn't support. I'm sure simple image editing used to work on Amiga. I just gave up.

Last edited by Hypex on 20-Jan-2019 at 04:13 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ppcamiga1 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 6-Feb-2019 15:10:54
#22 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 73
From: Unknown

@Hypex

You can use native Amiga Os 4 loader for loading JPEGs into ImageFX Lite.

http://os4depot.net/share/graphics/misc/aifxjpegload.lha

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Srtest 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 6-Feb-2019 23:38:05
#23 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 214
From: Israel, Haderah

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
Amiga has nothing to offer embedded and IoT, there's barely any "I" on Amiga even.


I get it that you like to do that same thing of yours like others here but this is kind of a symbol for everything. Non of you nay-sayers have ever done a bit of research of what Amiga can offer in the way someone like William Gibson used to examine teenagers playing arcades (for example). I wish I had recorded the first session I had with my niece and nephew showing them 4.1 on the X1k. They thought I was messing with them. They didn't believe me I was doing something and then stuff would suddenly emerge. Those youngins with their supposedly superior and streamlined, built-for-them devices were actually too slow to operate or even notice the fluidity of the system (after you configured it yourself to do that using everything which is available).

If you check out the os flavours that exist in streamers and smart tvs, not only can Amiga offer something which Windows can't (maybe the smartphones os versions) - it can be combined with their existing layer as a more complex, more detailed option. Just like the Amiga was back then between kickstart and workbench.

The only thing which prohibits seeing something like that is a culture which get cultivated around these parts. Making it happen is an entire different universe and neither me nor all the knowledgeable peeps here have any say in that.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
broadblues 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 7-Feb-2019 11:54:15
#24 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4320
From: Portsmouth England

@Hypex

Quote:

Recently I wanted to crop an image and then combine it into others. I tried ImageStudio which could do it but will only work with one image at a time. ImageFX Lite can't load JPEGs. Then I thought LodePaint might be worth a try only to find it needs MiniGL which my R7 250 doesn't support. I'm sure simple image editing used to work on Amiga. I just gave up.


Damn if only someone would write a flexible High Dynamic Range image editing prgram for AmigaOS 4.

Oh wait ... I did! SketchBlock Pro is on AmiStore and will be updated again soon.

@ppcamiga
Quote:


ppcamiga1 on 6-Feb-2019 15:10:54

@Hypex

You can use native Amiga Os 4 loader for loading JPEGs into ImageFX Lite.

http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=graphics/misc/aifxjpegload.lha



But that has only been around since 2005 not nearly long enough for Hypex to find it....

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 8-Feb-2019 15:20:06
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9426
From: Greensborough, Australia

@ppcamiga1

Yes I likely found that years ago. Since I had used it on my A1. There is a JPEG loader included with ImageFX, for PPC only, but for some reason it doesn't seem to work.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
HenryCase 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 11-Feb-2019 6:49:52
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 728
From: Unknown

@all
Even though this discussion has come up repeatedly, it strikes me as odd that there's not been much progress beyond the same talking points.

For example, if the idea is for one of the Amiga operating systems to become the "chosen one", or even that code from all existing Amiga operating systems is joined together into "one OS to rule them all", forget it, it's basically never going to happen.

In my opinion, the focus should be at the application level instead.

As others have pointed out, there are already some shared components across all Amiga operating systems. If we want even further integration than this, I would suggest that the best approach would be the Amiga equivalent of POSIX. That way, all applications written against this standard could easily support all of the Amiga platforms.

It wouldn't necessarily have to go as far as POSIX did in imposing standards, just offer a stable set of APIs and libraries that would be available on all platforms. The idea being that software could be written once and compiled for every Amiga platform that supports this standard.

Furthermore, I would suggest to those that still hold out hope for operating system integration that if the Amiga community (developers and users) can't even agree to this standard, then the chance of something more drastic like merging operating systems is practically nil. If you don't want to be stuck flogging a dead horse then look at smaller steps that can take you towards your goal.

One interesting question is whether this "POSIX for Amiga" should be based around the currently available set of libraries and APIs (e.g. OS 3.1 API compatibility), or whether this new standard gives a chance to break free from the limitations of the past to allow for operating system features that many would like to see (such as memory protection and SMP). On one hand there aren't that many developers left to undertake such a big project, and on the other hand there should be compelling reasons to port to this compatibility layer (other than just "it's the standard").

Last edited by HenryCase on 11-Feb-2019 at 06:51 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 11-Feb-2019 14:58:43
#27 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1248
From: N-Space

@HenryCase

Quote:
If we want even further integration than this, I would suggest that the best approach would be the Amiga equivalent of POSIX. That way, all applications written against this standard could easily support all of the Amiga platforms.

That's a good idea.

Almost all discussions about the future of the Amiga are centered around hardware or operating systems. For a while now I've been wondering, What applications exist on Amiga that are not available on other systems? For me there are none, other than retro games. But I think others could come up with some examples.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 12-Feb-2019 15:22:13
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9426
From: Greensborough, Australia

@HenryCase

I agree this is a good idea you have.

I recall there is some work already in this reagard. Known as SDI. The SDI project aims to provide easy cross compiling against common Amiga platforms or OS architectures. After locating it and reading about it, I still don't know what SDI means. Would have though unpacking the acronym would have been first in the read me.

http://aminet.net/package/dev/c/SDI_headers.lha

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 12-Feb-2019 15:27:36
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9426
From: Greensborough, Australia

@bison

Quote:
What applications exist on Amiga that are not available on other systems?


Workbench?

And associated utilities.

Yeah I got nothin'.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 13-Feb-2019 14:49:47
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1248
From: N-Space

@Hypex

Quote:
Workbench? 

And associated utilities.

Yeah I got nothin'. 

I have this suspicion that for most people it's really not about hardware, or the OS, or apps, but workflow -- people are used to doing things a certain way, and want to continue doing them that way. There's nothing wrong with this; in fact, from a time management perspective, it makes a lot of sense.

Case in point: a lot of Amiga users want to continue using REXX, despite the fact that Python is superior in almost every objective way. It's a lot of work to learn a new programing language to the point where one has learned the idioms of the language and does not have to continually read documentation, which is not a very production way to work.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
HenryCase 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 13-Feb-2019 21:55:25
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 728
From: Unknown

@bison
Quote:
Case in point: a lot of Amiga users want to continue using REXX, despite the fact that Python is superior in almost every objective way.


Preferences are always subjective. If you don't believe me, why do you continue to use Amigas when the competition is "superior"?

Also, having a compatibility layer standard isn't about limiting choices about what people do with their computers, but is instead about giving developers an option that should help with maintaining cross-platform apps.

As a hypothetical example, imagine if a new video player app was developed for the Amiga, one that wasn't just a straight port of an existing open-source video player, but was one that made good use of the Amiga platform, such as having a MUI interface and using datatypes for the file formats it supported. In this hypothetical example, let's say the application was originally coded for AROS. Wouldn't it be better if this app could be ported to all Amiga platforms just by recompiling it? Furthermore, I would suggest that if you're looking to build bridges, sharing application code is a good way to do it.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 14-Feb-2019 0:48:00
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

bison wrote:
I have this suspicion that for most people it's really not about hardware, or the OS, or apps, but workflow -- people are used to doing things a certain way, and want to continue doing them that way. There's nothing wrong with this; in fact, from a time management perspective, it makes a lot of sense.


The Amiga is more responsive and the workflow is more efficient but it lacks the software.

Quote:

Case in point: a lot of Amiga users want to continue using REXX, despite the fact that Python is superior in almost every objective way. It's a lot of work to learn a new programing language to the point where one has learned the idioms of the language and does not have to continually read documentation, which is not a very production way to work.


We should be able to have multiple scripting languages. The ARexx ports and messaging system are generic and could be used by other languages.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
hth313 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 14-Feb-2019 3:58:10
#33 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 105
From: Delta, Canada

Quote:

HenryCase wrote:

As others have pointed out, there are already some shared components across all Amiga operating systems. If we want even further integration than this, I would suggest that the best approach would be the Amiga equivalent of POSIX. That way, all applications written against this standard could easily support all of the Amiga platforms.

It wouldn't necessarily have to go as far as POSIX did in imposing standards, just offer a stable set of APIs and libraries that would be available on all platforms. The idea being that software could be written once and compiled for every Amiga platform that supports this standard.


This sounds like an excellent idea.

Just thinking, would it be possible to center this around (updating) the RKM books? They already describe the AmigaOS and its APIs. Now that Cloanto owns everything around Amiga, they should own the copyright of these books as well. If Cloanto agrees to it, a "small" trusted group of people with good connections to all flavours of AmigaOS variants could be formed. That group could have the final word on what goes into it, or there can be some other process. If done in the open source, anyone with desire may be able to participate and help.

It would be possible to publish major releases of the books as print on the demand and even have it available through book sellers. Providing e-books is also a possibility.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ilbarbax 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 14-Feb-2019 8:14:37
#34 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2010
Posts: 163
From: Italy

@hth313

Amiga
Supreme
Council
International

ASCI

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 14-Feb-2019 14:20:10
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1248
From: N-Space

@HenryCase

Quote:
If you don't believe me, why do you continue to use Amigas when the competition is "superior"?

Amiga has some retro games that are not available (or available, but not as good) on other systems.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
muyuu 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 15-Feb-2019 14:59:46
#36 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2019
Posts: 12
From: London, UK

@Petah
Quote:

Petah wrote:
In this special AmigaWorld.net Poll, you are kindly asked to cast your voice and address the elephant in the china shop - is it time to pool the resources and join forces?


What is the common goal?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
HenryCase 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 15-Feb-2019 19:19:36
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 728
From: Unknown

@muyuu
Quote:
What is the common goal?


I'm not Petah, but to give you an answer to your question, I would say the common goal is to reduce duplication of effort in order to strengthen the Amiga platforms. This should help the growth of next-gen Amiga platforms as well as giving classic Amiga devotees more to play with.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BigD 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 15-Feb-2019 23:46:07
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4720
From: UK

@HenryCase

Quote:
I would say the common goal is to reduce duplication of effort in order to strengthen the Amiga platforms


Here here! Either that or just support AmigaOS since that is the official IP currently. That might all change if Cloanto win the court case and grant an official license to MorphOS or AROS Exciting times

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
HenryCase 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 9:57:21
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 728
From: Unknown

@BigD
Quote:
Either that or just support AmigaOS since that is the official IP currently.


It'll take more than that to build bridges. Too many people were burned by the actions of the "official IP" owners, and quite frankly in some cases it would be a step backwards from what we already have. Unless some miracle happens and AmigaOS and MorphOS get open sourced, the only sensible solution in my opinion is to focus on cooperation at the application level. After all it's applications that drive a platform forward, an operating system is mostly just the environment that allows applications to be built and run.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
HenryCase 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 10:08:21
#40 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 728
From: Unknown

*Duplicate post*

Last edited by HenryCase on 16-Feb-2019 at 10:09 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle