Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5630 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel

Who's Online
 68 guest(s) on-line.
 1 member(s) on-line.


 Srtest

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 Srtest:  3 mins ago
 vox:  26 mins ago
 ferrels:  54 mins ago
 JohnFante:  55 mins ago
 Frank:  55 mins ago
 K-L:  1 hr 10 mins ago
 hlt:  1 hr 30 mins ago
 Trixie:  1 hr 33 mins ago
 bennymee:  1 hr 46 mins ago
 Britelite:  2 hrs 1 min ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 )
Poll : Is it time to join forces?
Yes, the current situation is not sustainable
No, there is no longer any ways of doing that
 
PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 12:21:01
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5450
From: Unknown

@HenryCase

the problem is the APIs are all different including GUI toolkits

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
hth313 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 18:16:32
#42 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 121
From: Delta, Canada

@HenryCase
@OlafS25

I believe the best place to start would be the application support layer, between the core OS and applications.

The GUI toolkit as pointed out would be an ideal candidate actually. If "the three" can agree on one such, in open source, for the future I think it may be a good start.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 18:59:07
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5450
From: Unknown

@hth313

Zune on Aros (MUI based) is open source but MUI on MorphOS is seen by team members as a core feature and they do not look like being interested to cooperate there, the same is true for Hyperion and Reaction

there are other components like USB support, support of PCI, RTG and so that are different on all platforms. In my view cooperation would make sense because not all three would waste resources by doing the same on its own but I do not see big chances for that

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Trixie 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 21:11:20
#44 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1747
From: Czech Republic

@OlafS25

Quote:
the same is true for Hyperion and Reaction

Two words: licensing terms. AFAIK Hyperion have to pay royalties to the original ClassAct/ReAction authors; they cannot open up the source codes willy-nilly and contribute them to a joint project.

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
muyuu 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 21:26:25
#45 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2019
Posts: 12
From: London, UK

@HenryCase

Quote:

HenryCase wrote:
@BigD
Quote:
Either that or just support AmigaOS since that is the official IP currently.


It'll take more than that to build bridges. Too many people were burned by the actions of the "official IP" owners, and quite frankly in some cases it would be a step backwards from what we already have. Unless some miracle happens and AmigaOS and MorphOS get open sourced, the only sensible solution in my opinion is to focus on cooperation at the application level. After all it's applications that drive a platform forward, an operating system is mostly just the environment that allows applications to be built and run.


Are there any Amiga-only applications that are currently popular among Amiga users? I only use my old Amiga to play old games. No application that I used back then is practical these days compared to alternatives in popular modern platforms. I used Soundtracker/Protracker/Octamed, deluxe paint, Aegis Animator, Fantavision, Real3D... but most/all of that is extremely outdated. It's really just the retro factor for me, but I'm curious to know if there's an active practical niche.

Is there a summary somewhere explaining the current factions within the Amiga scene? if that's even an appropriate term here. I've read about MorphOS, AROS, and the Apollo team. But I don't think I'm getting what are their vision and goals.

I totally get Apollo's Vampire 2 kits, which let you use your old machine more comfortably while still keeping the retro vibe - with strong acceleration as a nice perk - but I don't think reviving the MC680x0 family makes realistic sense beyond that (esp. if this pushes prices up beyond $200). I mean, sure it's a cool project but I think they are essentially done feature wise. If they actually got a competitive system to pit against the likes of the Odroid, RasPi, etc... - which in itself seems quite ambitions - wouldn't they get in legal trouble?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
HenryCase 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 22:40:19
#46 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 728
From: Unknown

@muyuu
Quote:
Are there any Amiga-only applications that are currently popular among Amiga users?


I'm not just thinking about the current state of play, I'm also looking to the future.

To give you a tangible example, all Amiga platforms are missing a modern office suite. Whilst an Amiga-exclusive office suite would be nice, being realistic it's most likely that we'll fill that niche by porting or adapting an existing open-source office suite.

There have been talks of porting LibreOffice for many years now. Whilst LibreOffice is quite a complex beast, there has been a new opportunity emerging to port some of the core LibreOffice features to Amiga platforms in a more straightforward manner:

https://docs.libreoffice.org/libreofficekit.html

This opportunity appears to be largely driven by the Android port, but has already found other uses, such as in a document viewer that is part of the GNOME desktop suite:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Integrating_LOKDocView_and_GNOME_Documents

At this moment in time, this core functionality is focused around document viewing, but there are plans to extend this to document editing as well:

https://tomazvajngerl.blogspot.com/2014/07/libreoffice-on-android.html

> "The idea is to first build a LibreOffice document viewer, which is able to display any type of document that is supported by LibreOffice. Afterwards build on that and provide more features and eventually editing. The application itself should be a Android native application and use LibreOffice (interfacing through LibreOfficeKit) to provide tiles of a rendered documents and other needed pieces."

So where does the Amiga fit into all of this? Putting aside the GUI framework questions, I would say the best first step is to look into what work would be needed to make a port of LibreOfficeKit easier to maintain across all Amiga platforms. I believe AmigaOS4 has support for Linux shared objects, one obvious question is whether we want to roll this out to all Amiga platforms, or whether we should come up with our own shared object standard that all Amiga platforms support. Perhaps such a thing already exists and I'm just not aware of it, but I would say that if it doesn't that should be the starting point for this "integration layer" discussion, as it's tied to a "killer app", in the sense that collaborating on this enables all Amiga platforms to more easily fill a hole in their software libraries.

Last edited by HenryCase on 16-Feb-2019 at 10:42 PM.
Last edited by HenryCase on 16-Feb-2019 at 10:42 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 17-Feb-2019 16:52:43
#47 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

muyuu wrote:
Are there any Amiga-only applications that are currently popular among Amiga users? I only use my old Amiga to play old games. No application that I used back then is practical these days compared to alternatives in popular modern platforms. I used Soundtracker/Protracker/Octamed, deluxe paint, Aegis Animator, Fantavision, Real3D... but most/all of that is extremely outdated. It's really just the retro factor for me, but I'm curious to know if there's an active practical niche.


There are Amiga applications which are good enough to be useful today. The biggest problems are lack of support and lack of modern file format support. Less performance often makes them less competitive as well. I mostly used the Amiga to make a business web site a few years ago primarily using TVPaint, PPaint, ImageFX and CED.

Quote:

Is there a summary somewhere explaining the current factions within the Amiga scene? if that's even an appropriate term here. I've read about MorphOS, AROS, and the Apollo team. But I don't think I'm getting what are their vision and goals.


AmigaOS 3
Developers: Olsen and ThoR
Goal: 68k is the heart and soul of the Amiga and has been ignored for too long
Vision: support and sustain the largest Amiga faction
Availability: (classic) Amiga hardware, UAE, Vampire, FPGA Arcade, MiST, MiSTer, FleaFPGA, Minimig

AmigaOS 4
Developers: Hyperion
Goal: PPC or bust!
Vision: try to take over the world
Availability: AmigaOne hardware, UAE PPC

MorphOS
Developers: MorphOS Team
Goal: professional AmigaOS alternative without the hardware or license cost
Vision: PPC is dead so support base and move on to x86_64
Availability: PPC Mac hardware, Pegasos, various PPC hardware

AROS
Developers: AROS Team
Goal: Viva Amiga! ... Viva AROS!
Vision: explore the path of a bunch of random developers
Availability: anywhere and everywhere

Quote:

I totally get Apollo's Vampire 2 kits, which let you use your old machine more comfortably while still keeping the retro vibe - with strong acceleration as a nice perk - but I don't think reviving the MC680x0 family makes realistic sense beyond that (esp. if this pushes prices up beyond $200). I mean, sure it's a cool project but I think they are essentially done feature wise. If they actually got a competitive system to pit against the likes of the Odroid, RasPi, etc... - which in itself seems quite ambitions - wouldn't they get in legal trouble?


The Vampire is pushing the limits of features and performance possible in an affordable FPGA. Usually, larger more expensive FPGAs are used for prototyping CPU designs which eventually move on to ASICs. ASICs have high up front costs but can lower per unit costs to a fraction of an equivalent FPGA with mass production, especially using under utilized fabs. An embedded partner wanting mass produced 68k ASICs could increase quantities to allow for mass production. The small footprint of the 68k and AmigaOS (both have room for improvements) can allow a cheaper SBC. I believe it is possible to have a 68k SBC which is competitive in price with the Raspberry Pi.

All of the 68k patents have expired (20 years). Legal trouble is more likely to come from using newer CPU features on the 68k.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
SHADES 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 19-Feb-2019 4:54:51
#48 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 636
From: Melbourne

@Petah

I was hoping that Vampire may actually start this.

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 19-Feb-2019 6:37:15
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1128
From: Trondheim, Norway

@SHADES

It could have been, and can still be, but without Apollo Core.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
muyuu 
Re: [POLL] Is it time to pool resources and join forces?
Posted on 25-Feb-2019 12:40:54
#50 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2019
Posts: 12
From: London, UK

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@SHADES

It could have been, and can still be, but without Apollo Core.


Can you elaborate what do you mean?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle