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      /  New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
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PosterThread
ne_one 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 23-Jan-2019 3:10:10
#41 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 886
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:
This is one of the problems Hyperion faces. They need a larger market to be profitable... Businesses should rotate away from less profitable products and into more profitable ones unless the reason for product under performance is cyclical.


Hyperion doesn't face problems - it is the problem.

Setting aside implications of illicit sales of 3.1.4 (which appears to have been produced at no cost), this company is essentially insolvent and down to one person inexplicably maintaining control of an entire platform.

Hyperion can't deliver when it is contracted to do development (re: A-EON), so it's not about revenue or risk reward. And it's not about finding capable resources because there are lots of people out there who can deliver in a timely fashion.

Can you honestly say if you had the funds at your disposal that you would engage this company to do anything?

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agami 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 23-Jan-2019 4:49:25
#42 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 577
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ne_one
Quote:
Can you honestly say if you had the funds at your disposal that you would engage this company to do anything?

Certainly would not.

@thread
Haven't we danced this same dance of "MUST be ported to some bragworthy Power ISA hardware"? As far as Hyperion's porting capabilities are concerned, POWER9 might as well be ARM Cortex-A76 or RISC-V.

Of course it's a person's prerogative to choose to have a house absent of x86 based CPUs, but how does the presence of an x86 CPU in one's midsts erode one's psyche or have any other negative effect? It has as much practicality and credibility as claiming one lives in a house completely devoid of the colour Red.

When there is an actual multi PCIe slot board with a multi-core Power ISA CPU of 2GHz+ available for under $500 (retail), then it is possible to claim that PPC is NOT dead. Because right now when it comes to the consumer market, it only looks like hanging on by a thread.

Last edited by agami on 23-Jan-2019 at 04:49 AM.

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hth313 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 23-Jan-2019 5:58:11
#43 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 154
From: Delta, Canada

Quote:

agami wrote:

Of course it's a person's prerogative to choose to have a house absent of x86 based CPUs, but how does the presence of an x86 CPU in one's midsts erode one's psyche or have any other negative effect? It has as much practicality and credibility as claiming one lives in a house completely devoid of the colour Red.



You are of course free to think that.

The x86 CPU was closely tied to Microsoft and MS-DOS and later Windows. These things were the ultimate insult to mankind. So bad, so awful. Through 1990-2000 and some beyond it was virtually impossible to find a job without having to be very much exposed to that crap.

Those people in leading positions that forced that awful crap onto us poor developers, I hope that you all end up being tortured in hell for all eternity. I mean it. Burn in hell, all of you!

One of the happiest days during the era was when Microsoft announced that it would not embrace internet (around 1996 I believe). Oh, I was so happy, finally the evil empire made THE mistake, stupid fools. Unfortunately, even they could not be that stupid and changed their decision 180 degrees 6 months later.

So yes, it had a significant negative effect on my life quality.

Having said that, life is better these days with better diversity, and I do not hold it against Microsoft these days. They brought VSCode, lots of open source and even Windows 8, the first version which actually has some merits.

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agami 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 24-Jan-2019 3:17:55
#44 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 577
From: Melbourne, Australia

@hth313
Hey, I used to sling around MS hate with the best of them back in the '90s and even in the early 2000s. I still consider intel culpable and complicit in the holding back of societal progress, but I can't paint x86 with the same brush.

IBM has certainly a lot to answer for when it comes to their behaviour and market practices, but that doesn't mean I should dislike what they're doing with POWER9 (little and late as it is).

For many, needing to deal with x86 in the late '80s and '90s, and especially through the combined lens of Wintel has certainly caused much emotional scarring, but x86 as an architecture has evolved quite a bit since then, and has subsequently enabled a relatively low cost proliferation of computing devices around the world. This torch is now carried by ARM, but hate it or love it x86 laid the foundation.

Satya's Microsoft is definitely a different company from the one Steve Balmer ran. Microsoft has exited its arrogant phase, but that wheel keeps turning and now Apple is at the height of its arrogant phase.

Google started with "Do no evil", but then the investors said "You must make profits". That line companies try to walk gets blurred very quickly. The juggernaut that Google (Alphabet) has become should scare most people, but billions still feed the beast on a minute-by-minute basis. Same goes for Facebook, Walmart, Amazon, Facebook, GlaxoSmithKlein, Monsanto, Visa, MasterCard. Those companies and many more like them are a real threat to how we live our lives today and in the near future; And then I read about how someone is living in an x86-free home. As if it were asbestos or something.

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ferrels 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 24-Jan-2019 3:33:00
#45 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 849
From: Arizona

@ne_one

Quote:
Hyperion doesn't face problems - it is the problem. Setting aside implications of illicit sales of 3.1.4 (which appears to have been produced at no cost), this company is essentially insolvent and down to one person inexplicably maintaining control of an entire platform. Hyperion can't deliver when it is contracted to do development (re: A-EON), so it's not about revenue or risk reward. And it's not about finding capable resources because there are lots of people out there who can deliver in a timely fashion. Can you honestly say if you had the funds at your disposal that you would engage this company to do anything?


That has to be the most succinct and accurate post to date regarding Hyperion that I've ever seen.

Last edited by ferrels on 24-Jan-2019 at 03:43 AM.

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hth313 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 24-Jan-2019 7:02:36
#46 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 154
From: Delta, Canada

@agami

Yes, I agree. Microsoft has changed a lot, while there are many others as you list that should be the cause of serious concerns.

Microsoft is actually one of the better players today, how things can change...

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K-L 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 24-Jan-2019 7:07:05
#47 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1384
From: Oullins, France

@Thread

Thanks to all the haters that have, as ususal, hijacked the thread to spit their hate towards Hyperion (or other anyone BTW), to all those who need to come on any thread spit their truth towards the Amigans.

Thanks to all those who know better than the others for their comments.

_________________
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Webmaster of Amiga-NG.org (French)

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Srtest 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 24-Jan-2019 7:23:06
#48 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 243
From: Israel, Haderah

@K-L

X1000 (not the computer) ad nauseam.

Not only that, those are the same old cliches like what this Agami fella has been spewing for years even after I've disproved his claims about having any impact based on a move to x86, like it's even about the tech or that type of power. I mean, if Apple weren't Apple and based on everything else they have done outside of the pc world, would their x86 move even mean anything? of course not. They were big enough to do it and to have any kind of sustaining foothold there. You already have Aros on x86 why that doesn't work? because it doesn't have the Amiga name? in 2019? that just shows you how this little bubble is nothing more than a self-sustaining meeting place for a group whose voices won't be heard pretty much anywhere else on the net.

The A500 which was the true success of the Amiga was never based on classic power of a processor or something like the 68k isa/infrastructure (those were means to an end). Its power came from the peeps who made it what it was just like in that original Amiga launching of daring the users to make it their own thing. Yet you still have all those who say that what prohibits the Amiga from returning is the processor which resides in the X1k or X5k and eventually the Tabor. That's bs and they know it and that's why this is the only place where their bs has any merit for whatever reasons.

Last edited by Srtest on 24-Jan-2019 at 08:45 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 24-Jan-2019 9:43:22
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5794
From: Unknown

@pavlor

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agami 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 25-Jan-2019 0:48:15
#50 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 577
From: Melbourne, Australia

@K-L

De rien mon frère

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Hammer 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 10-Oct-2020 4:38:43
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4091
From: Australia

@hth313

Quote:

hth313 wrote:
Quote:

agami wrote:

Of course it's a person's prerogative to choose to have a house absent of x86 based CPUs, but how does the presence of an x86 CPU in one's midsts erode one's psyche or have any other negative effect? It has as much practicality and credibility as claiming one lives in a house completely devoid of the colour Red.



You are of course free to think that.

The x86 CPU was closely tied to Microsoft and MS-DOS and later Windows. These things were the ultimate insult to mankind. So bad, so awful. Through 1990-2000 and some beyond it was virtually impossible to find a job without having to be very much exposed to that crap.

Those people in leading positions that forced that awful crap onto us poor developers, I hope that you all end up being tortured in hell for all eternity. I mean it. Burn in hell, all of you!

One of the happiest days during the era was when Microsoft announced that it would not embrace internet (around 1996 I believe). Oh, I was so happy, finally the evil empire made THE mistake, stupid fools. Unfortunately, even they could not be that stupid and changed their decision 180 degrees 6 months later.

So yes, it had a significant negative effect on my life quality.

Having said that, life is better these days with better diversity, and I do not hold it against Microsoft these days. They brought VSCode, lots of open source and even Windows 8, the first version which actually has some merits.


The ultimate insult in the following points

1. Uncompetitive high-cost hardware beyond 68030 classic Amigas and PowerPC/Power NG Amigas.

2. PowerPC/Power64's non-unified firmware environment when I already have paid AmigaOS 4.1 FE and I can't run it on another Power9 + Raptor Blackbird basic bundle.

I can install and run the 2009 era Windows 7 on the year 2019/2020 era ASUS ROG Strix X570 motherboard.

The silo nature with PowerPC/Power64's boot and firmware environment gimps interoperability between motherboard vendors.

Motorola is already in hell when they committed 68K suicide.

Power9 4C/16T + Raptor Blackbird Basic Bundle has ~$1700 USD price in October 2020. LOL.




Last edited by Hammer on 10-Oct-2020 at 04:52 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Oct-2020 at 04:48 AM.

_________________
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AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 EVO
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D4, KS 3.X, 882 40Mhz, 10MB RAM), .
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.1.4, 68K 50Mhz , 12MB RAM)

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Hammer 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 10-Oct-2020 4:46:03
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4091
From: Australia

@Srtest

Quote:

Srtest wrote:
@K-L

X1000 (not the computer) ad nauseam.

Not only that, those are the same old cliches like what this Agami fella has been spewing for years even after I've disproved his claims about having any impact based on a move to x86, like it's even about the tech or that type of power. I mean, if Apple weren't Apple and based on everything else they have done outside of the pc world, would their x86 move even mean anything? of course not. They were big enough to do it and to have any kind of sustaining foothold there. You already have Aros on x86 why that doesn't work? because it doesn't have the Amiga name? in 2019? that just shows you how this little bubble is nothing more than a self-sustaining meeting place for a group whose voices won't be heard pretty much anywhere else on the net.

The A500 which was the true success of the Amiga was never based on classic power of a processor or something like the 68k isa/infrastructure (those were means to an end). Its power came from the peeps who made it what it was just like in that original Amiga launching of daring the users to make it their own thing. Yet you still have all those who say that what prohibits the Amiga from returning is the processor which resides in the X1k or X5k and eventually the Tabor. That's bs and they know it and that's why this is the only place where their bs has any merit for whatever reasons.

"Amiga 500 has a mighty Motorola 68000" PR marketing from Commodore's 1980s advertisements.

As a long term desktop CPU partner, Motorola turns out to be Craprola.

_________________
Intel Core i9-9900K, DDR4-3800 32 GB RAM, MSI GeForce RTX 2080 Ti
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 EVO
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D4, KS 3.X, 882 40Mhz, 10MB RAM), .
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.1.4, 68K 50Mhz , 12MB RAM)

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 10-Oct-2020 8:49:13
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11488
From: Norway

@Hammer

The 68000 was successful CPU and it was used in UNIX servers before it became an outdated design, at time of the announcement it might have been a mighty CPU indeed. Of course nothing last forever so it had to be upgraded with 68010 and then 68020, and so on, I wondered when coldfire was introduced by Freescale former (Motorola), of course the CPU was butchered to fit a embedded market. Freescale is now NXP, and NXP now controls PowerPC, ARM and ColdFire, same strategy, basically design cut down chips for embedded market, for nitch markets like the mobile market.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Oct-2020 at 08:56 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Oct-2020 at 08:50 AM.

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matthey 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 10-Oct-2020 21:48:04
#54 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 843
From: Kansas

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
The 68000 was successful CPU and it was used in UNIX servers before it became an outdated design, at time of the announcement it might have been a mighty CPU indeed. Of course nothing last forever so it had to be upgraded with 68010 and then 68020, and so on, I wondered when coldfire was introduced by Freescale former (Motorola), of course the CPU was butchered to fit a embedded market. Freescale is now NXP, and NXP now controls PowerPC, ARM and ColdFire, same strategy, basically design cut down chips for embedded market, for nitch markets like the mobile market.


What PPC or POWER CPU has been in production longer than the 68000 *after* you consider it to be "an outdated design"?

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DiscreetFX 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 11-Oct-2020 19:41:28
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1916
From: Chicago, IL

@agami

With all the built in spying and phoning home Win10 does I’m not convinced they have changed their ways 100%. They have just improved their political contributions and marketing maybe.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 11-Oct-2020 at 07:45 PM.

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Hammer 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 12-Oct-2020 14:17:12
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4091
From: Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@Hammer

The 68000 was successful CPU and it was used in UNIX servers before it became an outdated design, at time of the announcement it might have been a mighty CPU indeed. Of course nothing last forever so it had to be upgraded with 68010 and then 68020, and so on, I wondered when coldfire was introduced by Freescale former (Motorola), of course the CPU was butchered to fit a embedded market. Freescale is now NXP, and NXP now controls PowerPC, ARM and ColdFire, same strategy, basically design cut down chips for embedded market, for nitch markets like the mobile market.

I'm already aware of 68K CPU being Unix servers with vendors such as HP and SUN.
After Motorola dropping the 68k performance leadership, SUN and HP created RISC CPU designs for their respective Unix lines.

Freescale was spun off from Motorola.
NXP has acquired Freescale.

Qualcomm dominates 5G mobile phone and related infrastructure wireless chipsets.

_________________
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AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 EVO
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Hammer 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 12-Oct-2020 14:20:29
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4091
From: Australia

@DiscreetFX

Free upgrade for Windows 10's Bing funding model partly copied Google's Search+Android business funding model. Nothing is free.

_________________
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AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 EVO
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D4, KS 3.X, 882 40Mhz, 10MB RAM), .
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.1.4, 68K 50Mhz , 12MB RAM)

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agami 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 13-Oct-2020 8:26:22
#58 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 577
From: Melbourne, Australia

@DiscreetFX

Quote:
With all the built in spying and phoning home Win10 does I’m not convinced they have changed their ways 100%.

There's an old saying from the old country "A wolf may shed its coat, but never its nature".

I'm certainly not holding my breath in anticipation of any drastic changes at Microsoft, but I also no longer habour the oversimplified good vs. evil view that I used to. I use Windows 10 on my gaming rig as it supports HTC Vive VR. My daily driver on desktop and laptop is Ubuntu 20.04. Home server is also Ubuntu 20.04.

The messed up thing is that I dislike all of it. Windows 10 is slightly better than the decades old Windows crap. MacOS is also stuck between the proverbial rock and Apple shareholders. Linux is a mess, but at least its open, and it's come a decent way in compatibility with the outside world.

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Hammer 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 13-Oct-2020 11:38:47
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4091
From: Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@Hammer

The 68000 was successful CPU and it was used in UNIX servers before it became an outdated design, at time of the announcement it might have been a mighty CPU indeed. Of course nothing last forever so it had to be upgraded with 68010 and then 68020, and so on, I wondered when coldfire was introduced by Freescale former (Motorola), of course the CPU was butchered to fit a embedded market. Freescale is now NXP, and NXP now controls PowerPC, ARM and ColdFire, same strategy, basically design cut down chips for embedded market, for nitch markets like the mobile market.

NXP does not control ARM when ARM Ltd controls the ARM standard.

_________________
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AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 EVO
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D4, KS 3.X, 882 40Mhz, 10MB RAM), .
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.1.4, 68K 50Mhz , 12MB RAM)

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DiscreetFX 
Re: New BlackBird desktop Power 9 mobo $1199, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 17-Oct-2020 23:42:46
#60 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1916
From: Chicago, IL

@agami

The following article kind of explains what’s wrong with the current MS.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/10/surface-duo-review-orphaned-windows-hardware-makes-a-poor-android-device/

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