@BigD

Why would anyone run any OS on this machine? It's price to performance ratio is bad. There are now even ARM boards/systems that are more powerful than this.
Now, if you really need to run PPC for some reason, sure, it's better than anything else, simply because anything else is an X5000 board, which is even worse from a price to performance ratio perspective.
The only bright spot on the PPC horizon is Libre-SOC. When/if that comes out, it will completely negate any need/reason for Tabor to exist.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

The only bright spot on the PPC horizon is Libre-SOC.

Libre-SOC looks like a long uphill climb, but I wish them the best.

The first six paragraphs of this article makes a pretty compelling case for designing a SoC using an FPGA.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@WolfToTheMoon

Hyperion have valid licenses for every part of OS4 that Trevor/A-EON don't own. That is everything that was ported from the 3.1 codebase and all the enhancments that have been made over the years. They agreements for third party components such as Roadshow and AHI and they own Reaction which is the GUI toolkit that A-EON seem to favour for their own software. That's what Hyperion bring to the table.

They fact that Hyperion are not pushing the OS forward with major new features is no longer important because Trevor has stepped into that role.

@Rob

Roadshow is being sold separately by Olsen, so I guess It not under Hyperion control.
AHI is open source, technically anyone can work on it.
Picasso96 has shared ownership (technically not imported to AmigaOS4.1 anymore as now it uses a wrapper for it. After the improvements in graphic.libraray)

Amiga Input is wherry buggy, I believe the beta testers has a newer version of it because the SDK referring to things that is not public. If less buggy I have no idea, but the concept of something is event driven, and something you need to poll the API for, defeats the point of some parts being event driven, generally concept is a mess, as it is in the public.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Nov-2020 at 11:54 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Nov-2020 at 11:53 AM.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: @BigD Tabor is DOA. It took them nearly 8 years from first announcement to sales to customers. Software/drivers still seem WIP, people should remember the promises with X1000(announced 11 years ago) and X5000 that are still not 100% supported. I would avoid anything that Hyperion has their hands on, they're clueless/deceitful and also probably dead man walking.

Tabor's price range is similar to Vampire's, hence it's not DOA.

_________________
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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Fl@sh

Quote:

Fl@sh wrote: @SHADES RPi porting would be a great goal, but it's another cpu architecture and this requires too much work and money to pay developers. Blackbird could be even a nice choice because it's completely opensource and POWER9 is mostly compatible with OS4 core and software. It's even many times faster than any RPi, price is near to a new Amiga X5000 but much faster and has a better support. Maybe AEON could look at one of these boards and customize it with a special bios to boot OS4

Blackbird has open source firmware.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: @BigD Why would anyone run any OS on this machine? It's price to performance ratio is bad. There are now even ARM boards/systems that are more powerful than this. Now, if you really need to run PPC for some reason, sure, it's better than anything else, simply because anything else is an X5000 board, which is even worse from a price to performance ratio perspective. The only bright spot on the PPC horizon is Libre-SOC. When/if that comes out, it will completely negate any need/reason for Tabor to exist.

Only Apple's M1 ARM clone on Apple machines. Apple's M1 doesn't benefit the rest of the ARM ecosystem i.e. where's the clones machines based on M1?

Last edited by Hammer on 30-Nov-2020 at 05:29 PM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

Vampire is a retro HW piece. For instance, you can still buy a 020 or a 030 accelerator, they serve a different purpose.

The choice of the CPU for Tabor is trully difficult to undestand, since Freescale offers similarily priced CPUs with fully compatible FPUs.
I still can't believe the sheer stupidity of that decision, no mather if they managed to get the CPUs for a very low price(because probably nobody wanted them in the first place).

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@Hammer

Not true

Here are several ARM desktop/workstation boards



https://www.solid-run.com/nxp-lx2160a-family/honeycomb-workstation/#specshttps://store.avantek.co.uk/arm-desktops.html

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 30-Nov-2020 at 05:37 PM.

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@WolfToTheMoon

That PCIe Gen3 x16 Slot with 8 lanes is a joke.

Blackbird Raptor motherboard is in the same class as AM4 X570 PCIe 4.0 based motherboards.

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/cavium/thunderx/cn8890
Neon 128 bit SIMD only?

AM4 B550 and X570 motherboards directly supports NVMe PCIe 4.0 on the motherboard.


Basic Blackbird Bundle (4-Core/16 threads Power9 CPU) = $1,732.07

Basic Blackbird Bundle (8-Core/32 threads Power9 CPU) = $2,133.77

VS

https://store.avantek.co.uk/avantek-32-core-cavium-thunderx-arm-desktop.html
Avantek 32 core/32 threads Cavium ThunderX ARM Desktop = $2,548.80

----------------
For less than $2000 budget = Ryzen 9 5950 + ASUS ROG Strix X570 mobo + RX 6800 XT AIB OC.

Last edited by Hammer on 02-Dec-2020 at 01:57 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-Dec-2020 at 01:55 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-Dec-2020 at 01:53 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-Dec-2020 at 01:52 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@WolfToTheMoon

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15733/ampere-emag-system-a-32core-arm64-workstation/4
Very weak single thread performance from eMAG 8180 32 cores.




https://www.anandtech.com/show/15733/ampere-emag-system-a-32core-arm64-workstation/5
eMAG 8180 32 cores's CPU MT Performance: SPEC 2017


--------------
For comparsion

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16214/amd-zen-3-ryzen-deep-dive-review-5950x-5900x-5800x-and-5700x-tested/9
Ryzen 9 5950X's CPU Single Thread Performance: SPEC 2017



https://www.anandtech.com/show/16214/amd-zen-3-ryzen-deep-dive-review-5950x-5900x-5800x-and-5700x-tested/10
Ryzen 9 5950X's CPU MT Performance: SPEC 2017


PC gaming CPU has murdered ARM based so-called workstation solutions.

Both Ryzen 9 3950 and Ryzen 9 5950X has 16 cores with 32 threads.

Shall we continue towards Blender 3D?

Last edited by Hammer on 02-Dec-2020 at 01:54 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-Dec-2020 at 01:41 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-Dec-2020 at 01:39 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-Dec-2020 at 01:38 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-Dec-2020 at 01:35 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-Dec-2020 at 01:15 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: @Hammer Vampire is a retro HW piece. For instance, you can still buy a 020 or a 030 accelerator, they serve a different purpose. The choice of the CPU for Tabor is trully difficult to undestand, since Freescale offers similarily priced CPUs with fully compatible FPUs. I still can't believe the sheer stupidity of that decision, no mather if they managed to get the CPUs for a very low price(because probably nobody wanted them in the first place).

Vampire's market niche success and it's price range indicates disposable spending pattern.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

It is slow compared to latest and greatest x86_64 and ARM64 CPUs.
I doubt it is much slower, if any, than a POWER9 CPU.

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@WolfToTheMoon

You doubt what is much slower than a POWER9 CPU? The Vampire? I didn't know it was that good. Those reported speeds must be right on the ball then. Then again it is said to be engineered by a Power/PC engineer.

@Hypex

Ampere eMag CPU

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@WolfToTheMoon

Also, read
https://wccftech.com/why-apple-m1-single-core-comparisons-are-fundamentally-flawed-with-benchmarks/

https://wccftech.com/intel-and-amd-x86-mobility-cpus-destroy-apples-m1-in-cinebench-r23-benchmark-results/

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

Ampere eMag CPU

Have I missed something? Why do we care about this CPU? Is this just going to become a CPU Benchmark thread?

I know that the A1222 Plus CPU is sub-optimal for FPU calculations but AmigaOS is being ported, it's cheap(-ish) and is relevant to this forum. The MorphOS team are porting to x86-64 but the ARM/Raspberry Pi ship has sailed - newsflash RISCOS beat us to it! The M1 is not available to us which might have offered an interesting ISA porting target. So that really only leaves the Vampire route for classic kicks or AROS if you don't want a X5000 or A1222 Plus! None of these options benefit from exotic workstations whatever the benchmarks report

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
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@BigD

The discussion was Blackbird/Talos POWER9 system vs existing ARM desktop systems, not Tabor.
Tabor is handily beaten by even cheap smartphones.
One has to wonder, if Trevor/Amigakit have long term plans for OS4, can they afford to stay on PPC? Because, in all likelihood, there might not be any new PPC chips other than POWER, which is too expensive for 90% of OS4 customers. Or they might just conclude, like others did, that money/customers is/are in the 68K market and drop OS4.

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 03-Dec-2020 at 10:08 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

Is this just going to become a CPU Benchmark thread?

Any thread on AW will, given time, become a CPU benchmark thread. This is known as Hammer's Law.

Last edited by bison on 04-Dec-2020 at 12:05 AM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@WolfToTheMoon


Quote:

The discussion was Blackbird/Talos POWER9 system vs existing ARM desktop systems, not Tabor.

No the discussion was, AmigaOS must be ported. So don't derail the thread...
Does it really matter if X64/X86, arm or what ever is faster? Those cpus aren't used in AOS4.
There will always be something better, fster or what ever.

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