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Poll : Which CPU architecture are you most interested in for AmigaOS in the future?
68k
ARM
POWER
PowerPC
RISC-V
x86_64
other
 
PosterThread
matthey 
Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 21:16:52
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Which CPU architecture are you most interested in for AmigaOS in the future?

Please comment with the architecture of choice if selecting other. Please do not vote unless you have a primary preference but feel free to comment. Thank you.

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Fl@sh 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 21:32:31
#2 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 95
From: Napoli - Italy

@matthey

No doubt ARM

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 21:45:12
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11011
From: Norway

@matthey

Voted PowerPC and think it great for few years more for AmigaOS.
(Who knows maybe there will be comeback for PowerPC, outside of server market)

The vampire standalone interests me, because I think it is going to be fun system to own.

x64 is starting to see some completion from the ARM, it might be that in server market the traditional Sisc cpu's will be out performed by RISC, because better to spend transistors on what really counts, as CPU's becomes more and more complex.

In addition, there is shift from desktop to mobile (tablets), this where ARM is doing great, is possible that desktop ARM will become something more common, as CPU's become faster. It depends if there will be heavier shift to cloud or not.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Jan-2019 at 09:46 PM.

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hth313 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 21:46:06
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 119
From: Delta, Canada

@matthey

I prefer 68k if we can get a proper ASIC based one. Failing that, ARM and RISC-V are choices I can happily accept. The rest I do not care so much about.

So in some way, ARM is probably the most realistic and practical choice for me, but I prefer 68k, if done right.

I also prefer open source so I can tinker with it, and that leaves me with ARM and AROS, as it looks now.

(I have not voted as I do not have a clear primary preference).

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Tuxedo 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 21:57:52
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2319
From: Perugia, ITALY

@matthey

I voted x86 but also a good(and cheap) ARM hardware can be ok.
The important thing was that we can have SPEED!

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Trekiej 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 22:13:29
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

Looking at price, I would say ARM or X86_64.
I did vote ARM.

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matthey 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 22:14:01
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
Voted PowerPC and think it great for few years more for AmigaOS.
(Who knows maybe there will be comeback for PowerPC, outside of server market)


I did separate out POWER and PowerPC even though they are mostly compatible. I doubt PowerPC will make a comeback in the server market because POWER is more popular there and purpose built for that market. PowerPC was holding on in the embedded market but they appear to be losing market share quickly to ARM and RISC-V.

Quote:

The vampire standalone interests me, because I think it is going to be fun system to own.

x64 is starting to see some completion from the ARM, it might be that in server market the traditional Sisc cpu's will be out performed by RISC, because better to spend transistors on what really counts, as CPU's becomes more and more complex.


CISC spends more transistors on CPU logic while RISC spends them on caches. Are more transistor used in CPU logic or caches on modern high performance CPUs?

Quote:

In addition, there is shift from desktop to mobile (tablets), this where ARM is doing great, is possible that desktop ARM will become something more common, as CPU's become faster. It depends if there will be heavier shift to cloud or not.


ARM is in most smart phones and tablets which is a bigger market than desktops and notebooks which are mostly using x86_64.

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hth313 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 22:26:06
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 119
From: Delta, Canada

@matthey

Is someone manipulating the poll? The x86 just go through the roof in very short time, and keeps counting...

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matthey 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 22:45:35
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

hth313 wrote:
Is someone manipulating the poll? The x86 just go through the roof in very short time, and keeps counting...


I noticed too. It looks like someone has figured out how to vote more than once and likes x86_64. I noticed some irregularities in other polls but this is more obvious. Too bad someone would ruin the poll as it is interesting.

It looks like many people are being practical. I expected to see more x86_64 dislike but I guess that is history. It looks like people are primarily concerned with performance and price. Maybe a poll asking which is most important to users for future AmigaOS hardware: compatibility, energy efficiency, performance or price would be better but there isn't a way to rate them individually or relative to each other.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 23:01:23
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1628
From: UK

I see ppc as being to expensive to produce cost effective products A1222 might prove to be a hit. However the A1222 is a lot cheaper than the x5000 performance wise I'm guessing even a 35 raspberrypi would give it a good run for its money. Amiga really needs to move to affordable hardware. Still I can't see a switch arm any time soon so my only option for now is A1222 or SA Vampire...

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Fl@sh 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 23:01:45
#11 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 95
From: Napoli - Italy

@matthey

Poll is manipulated, at this point maybe could be better to ask everyone to write in the post his preferred cpu, eventually motivating the choice in really few words.

as example for me:
arch @ARM - low costs, low power, widespread, future proof

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g01df1sh 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 23:11:08
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1628
From: UK

Why so many x86 imagine a world where everyone had the same cars what a boring life it would be. IT is no different we need more choice as the IT world has become very boring of late. Same old crap different day syndrome with things like its slightly faster or oh wait let's get really excited with a bit better screen and camera.

Last edited by g01df1sh on 28-Jan-2019 at 11:12 PM.
Last edited by g01df1sh on 28-Jan-2019 at 11:12 PM.

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redfox 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 23:40:45
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1661
From: Canada

@matthey

At first, I was thinking 68K and PowerPC for compatibilty with existing software.

Then, I realized that I am already using my tablet for 99% of my web browsing, messaging and email. These things could also be done using a smart cellphone, if I had one.

Assuming the tablet uses an ARM processor, that would be my choice for future AmigaOS.

Light and mobile, able to use the "cloud" for storage as easily as a microSD card, for me that's the present and immediate future.

---
redfox

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agami 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 23:46:42
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 541
From: Melbourne, Australia

In case anyone was wondering, I was the one that voted Other.

RISC-V is interesting. I might come back around to that one later.
68k I'm assuming is the new FPGA 080 stuff. And whilst I'm a strong supporter of that initiative, what I have in mind is best described as "Other".

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matthey 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 0:11:16
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

Fl@sh wrote:
Poll is manipulated, at this point maybe could be better to ask everyone to write in the post his preferred cpu, eventually motivating the choice in really few words.

as example for me:
arch @ARM - low costs, low power, widespread, future proof


I chose 68k for compatibility, single core performance (better for games and allows lower clock rates), code density (small footprint reduces cache and memory requirements), low energy use per task (finishes tasks quickly so it can sleep more), ease of programming, uniqueness.

Price is more a measure of economies of scale. ARM doesn't really have an advantage for price other than selling millions of CPUs into the embedded market. They probably do have an advantage with a smaller cheaper chip area but only for low end CPUs. ARM CPUs generally have low energy use when sleeping and low energy use per MHz but they need higher MHz due to their low single core performance and they draw energy while active for longer than a CPU which finishes tasks quicker and goes back to sleep.

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matthey 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 0:22:32
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

agami wrote:
In case anyone was wondering, I was the one that voted Other.

RISC-V is interesting. I might come back around to that one later.
68k I'm assuming is the new FPGA 080 stuff. And whilst I'm a strong supporter of that initiative, what I have in mind is best described as "Other".


RISC-V is interesting because it is more open but the ISA is a rather boring classic RISC ISA with a few modern improvements.

I wasn't necessarily referring to the Apollo Core for the 68k. I don't like the direction of the ISA which was one of the major reasons why I left the Apollo Team. What did you have in mind?

Last edited by matthey on 29-Jan-2019 at 12:36 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 1:19:57
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4816
From: UK

@Fl@sh

So people can hack polls and steal personal data from the members database at will now. What is the point of continuing to use this site? Is this website just a lego set for any deranged hacker who loves ripping stuff apart now?

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Snorg 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 4:01:29
#18 ]
Member
Joined: 1-Feb-2018
Posts: 85
From: Unknown

@BigD

FWIW, I voted ARM. RISC might be okay but I know almost nothing about the architecture.

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@Fl@sh

So people can hack polls and steal personal data from the members database at will now. What is the point of continuing to use this site? Is this website just a lego set for any deranged hacker who loves ripping stuff apart now?


That's a leap, no? Going from "Poll is manipulated" (opinion, I assume) to the above. Frankly, we should assume that everything is compromised - the quality of code is, in general, abysmal.

In any case, the question of the point of continuing is a separate matter. Sometimes you find a diamond in the rough.

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davidf215 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 5:35:38
#19 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2010
Posts: 76
From: Texas

@Original post

I'm still deciding. I am, however, leaning towards staying with PowerPC.

Reasons for maintaining PowerPC for next few years:
1. Investment money has been put into AmigaOS to run on PPC and create NG Amiga systems.
2. Because of #1, systems are available to purchase and sales are increasing/continuing.
3. AmigaOS needs platform stability. Introducing another architecture fragments the AmigaOS platform even further.
4. Because of #3, platform stability is important, and building a stronger user base in the current AmigaOS market is more important right now than porting to another architecture, IMO.
5. Prevent more work and costs for the already limited number of AmigaOS system and app developers.

POWER and Arm are good alternatives. However, IMO any new CPU architecture for AmigaOS should be a 5+ year plan.

The POWER architecture would be good for introducing a server line for the AmigaOne brand. This product line would run primarily Linux and maybe AmigaOS depending on the solution.



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cdimauro 
Re: Poll of CPU architecture interest for AmigaOS
Posted on 29-Jan-2019 5:55:51
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2088
From: Germany

Currently I decided to don't vote, because some clarification is required IMO.

First, what we intend for "AmigaOS"?
The (original) Amiga o.s.? AmigaOS4? Some re-implementations (MorphOS, AROS)?
The aboves, but running on an hosted environment? Or an emulated one? Or a "virtualized" one (e.g. transparently running "AmigaOS" applications on another o.s.)? Etc.

Second, which kind of "future" do we expect?
Running legacy 68K software faster / with more features (e.g.: improved RTG/RTA. Something else)? Enhancing 68K software? Enhancing the o.s. (e.g.: new APIs), maybe to put it on par with other modern o.ses? Rewriting 68K software and or/o.s.? Making it easier to port software from other platform? Etc.
The same questions apply to AmigaOS4, MorphOS, AROS, with 68K eventually changed to the wanted CPU architecture.

Third, what benefits should the CPU architecture bring to the "AmigaOS"?

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