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Trekiej 
Winuae OS List
Posted on 15-Feb-2019 6:34:30
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 574
From: Unknown

Hello.
What OSes can Winuae run?
I know that it can run 68K OSes like Amiga and Aros, BSD and I believe Linux.

So, what PPC OSes can it run?
I have Amiga OS4.1 installed.
How about the Linux for AmigaOne or Aros PPC?
Thanks.

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Hypex 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 15-Feb-2019 15:10:40
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9478
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Trekiej

Hello.

Quote:
What OSes can Winuae run?


Anything a real Amiga could run. Say MacOS. Through ShapeShifter.

Quote:
How about the Linux for AmigaOne or Aros PPC?


LOL. If it could run AmigaOne Linux then woud also be able to run AmigaOne AmigaOS4.

You can run Linux APUS. Or a PowerUP build of AROS. Anything that targets the Phase5 PPC boards and boots off an Amiga.

Though I don't personally use WinUAE so others could give you a better answer.

I'm giving you an educated guess from WinUAE being an Amiga emulator and using other UAE builds.

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Trekiej 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 2:06:26
#3 ]
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Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 574
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Is Amiga OS4.X on Amiga One X5000 much different than Amiga OS 4.X Classic?

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emeck 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 9:07:34
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Apr-2003
Posts: 674
From: Barcelona, Spain

@Trekiej

Classic hardware is different (even between NG machines HW is different) and AFAIK, WinUAE emulates only classic hardware and addons. So you can run AOS4 for classic machines.

There is ongoing development for emulating Sam460 with qemu and running AOS4. More info here.

Edit: typos

Last edited by emeck on 16-Feb-2019 at 09:08 AM.
Last edited by emeck on 16-Feb-2019 at 09:08 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 17-Feb-2019 15:27:15
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11012
From: Norway

@Trekiej

Quote:
Is Amiga OS4.X on Amiga One X5000 much different than Amiga OS 4.X Classic?


Yes.. the big difference is the Radeon HD drivers.

Radeon HD gives you YUV422 video output for video playback.
Radeon HD gives you Warp3D Nova, OpenGL functionality.
Radeon HD gives you lots of VRAM.

AmigaONE X5000 is also lot faster than a emulated system or Classic A1200 with slow Blizzard PPC on it. you lot faster Sata controller, lots more RAM.

AmigaONE X5000 does however not have CIAA/CIAB, Paula or AGA chipset. in this respect it more like amithlon system.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Feb-2019 at 03:40 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Feb-2019 at 03:29 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 17-Feb-2019 15:39:50
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11012
From: Norway

@Trekiej

Quote:
How about the Linux for AmigaOne or Aros PPC?


No WinUAE does not emulate AmigaONE hardware,

WinUAE can only emulate Amiga500,600,1200,2000,3000,4000,CDTV,CD32 systems.
+ a lot of addition hardware upgrades like BizzardPPC and CyberstormPPC.

The AmigaONE hardware is designed differently, it has PCIe, SATA, USB2, and has no 680x0 CPU, it designed as modern day system.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Feb-2019 at 03:42 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Feb-2019 at 03:41 PM.

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Trekiej 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 18-Feb-2019 1:03:27
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 574
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

I want to run my Amiga One Linux that I got from Amigakit.com.
There is no hurry for it.
Qemu is what I have been waiting to use.
Its Pass Through capabilities is suppose to speed up video a bunch.

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Hypex 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 18-Feb-2019 15:24:23
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9478
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Trekiej

You've got your answer already but an X5000 would be way different. For example, if we are comparing with WinUAE, it wouldn't touch it. Despite those purist nay sayers on the internet that think UAE can do the same as an X5000 only cheaper and faster. Ha.

Even with a very fast PC I doubt WinUAE could come close to emulating a 2Ghz PPC. It might beat a real Amiga but that's it. Still, it would be good to run an OS4 benchmark program, to see how fast it can go.

But there are other factors. The hardware emulated is limited. So forget HD and OS4 3d games. And other things like plugging in USB sticks. WinUAE is stuck in a box.

BTW, the Linux you mention, is that an X5000 Linux Remix or something? And why would you want to run AmigaOne Linux under emulation? You can run it natively on your PC or under a VM in Windows and it would work better than AmigaOne Linux.

Last edited by Hypex on 18-Feb-2019 at 03:28 PM.

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Trekiej 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 19-Feb-2019 2:51:47
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 574
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Yes, it is the Remix from Amigakit.
Curios about how well it runs. Sure, the X86 and x86_64 distro would be better than emu.

Hopefully Qemu will deliver on the Pass-through capability that was advertised.

Oh well, just looking to see what can be done with WinUAE and Qemu.

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SHADES 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 19-Feb-2019 4:51:15
#10 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 636
From: Melbourne

@Hypex

"You've got your answer already but an X5000 would be way different. For example, if we are comparing with WinUAE, it wouldn't touch it. Despite those purist nay sayers on the internet that think UAE can do the same as an X5000 only cheaper and faster. Ha. "

Really?

I'll place my "2nd Gen" i7 Running WinUAE 68k emulation over your x5000 running UAE 68k emulation any day of the week.
When should we compare results?

Just saying.....be concise in your explanation of why people think WinUAE is faster and in what context it is being used.

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Hypex 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 19-Feb-2019 15:13:56
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9478
From: Greensborough, Australia

@SHADES

Quote:
Really?


Yes really. WinUAE can't emulate an X5000. So emulation speed aside UAE cannot do the same as an X5000.

Quote:
I'll place my "2nd Gen" i7 Running WinUAE 68k emulation over your x5000 running UAE 68k emulation any day of the week.


There is nothing to compare here, since I don't have an X5000.

But I'm not talking about 68K here but emulating the PPC. And yes I'd like to see some results.

Okay here is mine from RageMem:


RAGEMEM v0.37 - compiled 11/06/2010

CPU: P.A. Semi PWRficient PA6T-1682M B1 @ 1800 Mhz
Caches Sizes: L1: 64 KB - L2: 2048 KB - L3: none
Cache Line: 64

CPU
MAX MIPS: 3082

L1
READ32: 6845 MB/Sec
READ64: 13666 MB/Sec
WRITE32: 6844 MB/Sec
WRITE64: 13665 MB/Sec

L2
READ32: 3238 MB/Sec
READ64: 4371 MB/Sec
WRITE32: 2435 MB/Sec
WRITE64: 4083 MB/Sec

RAM
READ32: 2863 MB/Sec
READ64: 4131 MB/Sec
WRITE32: 2404 MB/Sec
WRITE64: 2372 MB/Sec
WRITE: 344 MB/Sec (Tricky)

VIDEO BUS
READ: 108 MB/Sec
WRITE: 161 MB/Sec


Modded output to display.

http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=utility/benchmark/ragemem.lha

Quote:
Just saying.....be concise in your explanation of why people think WinUAE is faster and in what context it is being used.


I'm as concise as people on the internet who don't consider the X5000 to be Amiga anything and so make straw man comments about the X5000 running 68K in UAE only and everything being emulated. These are the nay sayers. Who seem oblivious to the fact that an X5000 CPU runs OS4 natively. But since they don't consider OS4 to be an AmigaOS they are blind to the facts. I wonder how many have actually used OS4. I've met one person who didn't even know OS4 could run 68K code directly (through emulation.)

Because they are comparing running Win/UAE on a fast setup like your i7 against UAE on an X5000. Even with PPC JIT, any decent x86 will beat an X5000 running UAE. That's a given.

But people don't buy an X5000 to play with UAE all day. UAE is just a side hobby. People buy an X5000 to use OS4 and the modernish Amiga applications. A modern Amiga experience.

We could also compare OS4 68K emulation against UAE/x86 or more a match to Amithlon. Likely x86 could win even with Amiga emulation overhead. But UAE can run in RTG to speed it up.

Last edited by Hypex on 19-Feb-2019 at 03:20 PM.

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SHADES 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 19-Feb-2019 23:18:01
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 636
From: Melbourne

@Hypex

I never said it (WinUAE) could emulate a X5000
I said WinUAE will emulate 68k environment (OS 3.x etc) faster on my 2nd Gen i7 than your X5000 can.

Care to post those 68k emulated results?
This is why you shouldn't contribute this straw person mentality with generic replies.

My point is, WinUAE is used for a specific requirement. To run a 68k OS like OS 3.1/3.9 and do it well.

The X5000 CPU is not going to compete with the i7 especially, in terms of cost of purchase Vs returns in speed doing so.

$500 is what my PC cost me for usage, to play with AMIGA OS. Maybe an extra $100 for WinUAE.
How about you?
Again, nothing about being a nay-sayer. It is what it is when the correct context is defined.

Emulate the AMIGA 68k OS on your X5000 and we will compare.

I can post my i7 native memory bandwidth without 68k emu if you like
https://www.sisoftware.co.uk/download-lite/

Keep in mind, I am running Folding At Home and Spotify in Windows atm as well ;)
The tests are probably not comparable to being different programs, still, this is only memory, not CPU instruction processing measurement. To translate to 68000 based code, memory bandwidth is only part of the answer.

I downloaded a better-known industry accepted benchmarking tool called SiSoft Sandra and i'll post the results below.

Aggregate Memory Performance - 8.28GB/s
Integer Memory Bandwidth B/F AVX2/256 - 8.27GB/s
Float Memory Bandwidth B/F FMA/256 - 8.29GB/s
Results Interpretation - Higher Scores mean Better Performance.
Binary Numeral System (base2) - 1GB(/s)=1024MB(/s)

Performance Per Thread
Aggregate Memory Performance - 2GB/s
Integer Memory Bandwidth B/F AVX2/256 - 8.27GB/s
Float Memory Bandwidth B/F FMA/256 - 8.29GB/s
No. Threads - 4
Results Interpretation - Higher Scores mean Better Performance.
Binary Numeral System (base2) - 1GB(/s)=1024MB(/s)

Performance vs. Power
Chipsets(s)/Memory Power - 29.510W
Aggregate Memory Performance - 287.26MB/s/W
Integer Memory Bandwidth B/F AVX2/256 - 286.92MB/s/W
Float Memory Bandwidth B/F FMA/256 - 287.60MB/s/W
Results Interpretation - Higher Scores mean Better Performance.

Performance vs. Speed
Aggregate Memory Performance - 6.35MB/s/MHz
Integer Memory Bandwidth B/F AVX2/256 - 6.35MB/s/MHz
Float Memory Bandwidth B/F FMA/256 - 6.36MB/s/MHz
Results Interpretation - Higher Scores mean Better Performance.

Integer Memory Bandwidth
Assignment - 8.25GB/s
Scaling - 8.2GB/s
Addition - 8.31GB/s
Triad - 8.3GB/s
Data Item Size - 32bytes
Buffering used - Yes
Offset Displacement - Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency - 79.34%

Float Memory Bandwidth
Assignment - 8.31GB/s
Scaling - 8.23GB/s
Addition - 8.27GB/s
Triad - 8.35GB/s
Data Item Size - 32bytes
Buffering used - Yes
Offset Displacement - Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency - 79.53%

Intel Core (Haswell) DRAM Controller, 16GB DIMM DDR3 (1.33GHz 64-bit) PC3 10700 (9-9-9-24 4-33-10-7)
Sorry for all the edits, I'm at work and I can only reply sporadically.

Last edited by SHADES on 20-Feb-2019 at 05:55 AM.
Last edited by SHADES on 20-Feb-2019 at 04:40 AM.
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Last edited by SHADES on 19-Feb-2019 at 11:18 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: Winuae OS List
Posted on 20-Feb-2019 15:24:29
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9478
From: Greensborough, Australia

@SHADES

Quote:
I never said it (WinUAE) could emulate a X5000


Yes I know. You didn't imply that.

Quote:
I said WinUAE will emulate 68k environment (OS 3.x etc) faster on my 2nd Gen i7 than your X5000 can.


But I don't have an X5000.

I forgot to say I have an X1000 which gave those results.

Quote:
Care to post those 68k emulated results?


I could but what with? 68K RageMem? Aminet is down again.

Quote:
My point is, WinUAE is used for a specific requirement. To run a 68k OS like OS 3.1/3.9 and do it well.


Agreed. I run an OS3.9 RTG setup on my PPC Macs for years. On my old x64 laptop I sometimes boot OS4 which doesn't do so well.

Quote:
The X5000 CPU is not going to compete with the i7 especially, in terms of cost of purchase Vs returns in speed doing so.


No it won't. And not for running UAE either. But I also made a point that it would be beaten at running UAE by an i7.

Quote:
$500 is what my PC cost me for usage, to play with AMIGA OS. Maybe an extra $100 for WinUAE. How about you?


For my X1000, $2,500AU. IIRC I paid $2,000 for my AmigaOne XE. And $2,500 on my A1200 before it. I got more bang for my buck with my AmigaOne than my real A1200. The X1000 can't touch the XE on price or value, by then they'd lost it.

Quote:
Emulate the AMIGA 68k OS on your X5000 and we will compare.


I could, on my X1000, but what would be the point? Since I'm interested in PPC.

So the claims on the internet are that a fast PC can run UAE faster than an X5000 can run UAE; and that UAE can emulate an X5000.

A fast PC emulating an Amiga under UAE faster than an X5000 can do so under UAE is a given. No dispute there.

Overlooked is the built in 68K JIT emulation in OS4; but since an i7 is way faster, it likely could emulate it faster even within UAE.

UAE emulating an X5000? First, as earlier stated, UAE cannot emulate exactly an X5000. The closest is emulating an actual Amiga, with a PPC card, runnning OS4. Not exactly the same but still running OS4.

Okay so that leaves, in all fairness, as close as can be fair; how an X5000 performs running OS4, against UAE emulating OS4.

So do you have an OS4 setup installed on your WinUAE you could run the RageMem test in OS4 and see how fast your i7 can emulate a PPC running OS4?

I'm actually really interested in these results. To see how bad things are. I expect it could compete with an 800Mhz G4 XE speed with an i7.

Quote:
Sorry for all the edits, I'm at work and I can only reply sporadically.


No problems. It's annoying that it logs it all.

Last edited by Hypex on 20-Feb-2019 at 03:43 PM.
Last edited by Hypex on 20-Feb-2019 at 03:36 PM.

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