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      /  Ultimate A1200 or X5000
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hlt 
Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 15:40:11
#1 ]
New Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2018
Posts: 6
From: Unknown

Hello,

At this moment I have A1200 with 16 GB CF card, Indivision MK2 and Blizzard 060 50MHz 128MB, I'm considering below options:

1. Upgrade with Elbox BlackBox tower, Mediator TX, Radeon 9200, SB 128, Spider II and PPC PCI card (Sonnet, Killer M1 NIC or any other)

2. Purchase X5000

Need some feedback from X5000 owners, are you happy for your choice? What are common limitations?

Thanks!

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outrun1978 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 17:38:35
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 507
From: Unknown

@hlt

https://amigax5000.blog/2017/09/15/the-x5000-vs-upgrading-your-classic-machine/

The X5000 will also run quite a good version of Linux in Fienix and with the right graphics card you also get MorphOS. All three OS options on the same machine make for a good experience not found elsewhere

The A1200 is very much in storage for preservation whilst the X5000 gets used daily.

_________________
AmigaOne X5000 Radeon X1650 Triple booting AmigaOS4.1 FE Linux Fienix PPC and MorphOS 3.11

Amiga1200 ACA1231/42 128MB and OS 3.9 Boing Bag update 2

Amiga CD32


Author of blog www.amigax5000.blog

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Trixie 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 19:34:54
#3 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1719
From: Czech Republic

@hlt

Quote:
Need some feedback from X5000 owners, are you happy for your choice?

Yes I'm glad I have this machine - best Amiga system I've ever owned (previously: A500, A1200, A4000 desktop, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-Flex). But then again, I don't play old games or watch demos or generally care about Classic Amiga stuff, so it depends on what you expect from and want to do with your computer. My X5000 is mainly a software development machine, for which it is great. Fast and quite stable, despite the OS still being in pre-release state.

Quote:
What are common limitations?

My biggest gripe is the CD filesystem, which increases the drive unit number with each inserted CD. This puzzles most programs that handle CDs (including my audio-ripping software ADRipper), which quite logically expect a specific unit number (set in the preferences). Although there are ways to work around this problem, I hope this gets fixed soon.

Also, people complain about the graphics.library not being DMA-enabled on the X5000, but as I do not run any graphics-intensive software, I can't really comment on that.

Oh yes - one other thing I'm impatiently waiting for is the new RAM Disk that uses ExtMem objects, a new feature of OS4 (not specifically for X5000). I hear it is already being beta-tested. Once it becomes public I'll upgrade my system to 8GB because the extra memory will finally get some good use

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon R5 230 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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hlt 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 20:11:47
#4 ]
New Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2018
Posts: 6
From: Unknown

@Outrun1978 and @Trixie than you for replies!

I can run old games on A1200 or under emulation, this is not an issue. Also CD filesystem is not a big problem for me, as I never us CD's.

It would be easier to decide to go X5000 route if I could use it for my work, not only hobby.

1. I need text editor which has PHP/JS/HTML syntax highlighting. Is there any for AOS 4.1?

2. I believe Odyssey has no HTML Inspector and Console to monitor HTTP requests? I use this a lot in Firefox or Chrome during development.

3. I found that there is AAMP (Apache, MySql, PHP), this is the most important thing for me. Anyone has some feedback about it?

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dan.hutch 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 20:28:23
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 505
From: United Kingdom

@hlt

Sell the Blizzard and keep the A1200 in its original case, maybe with a fast RAM expansion in place of the Blizzard.

A Blizzard PPC went for best part of 1000 a week or so back on eBay, so I reckon your 060 board could contribute nicely to X5000 purchase.

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Trixie 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 20:58:33
#6 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1719
From: Czech Republic

@hlt

Quote:
I need text editor which has PHP/JS/HTML syntax highlighting. Is there any for AOS 4.1?

Annotate can do syntax highlighting, and PHP is supported (other syntaxes can easily be added). Another editor with syntax highlighting is GoldEd, which is part of the Cubic IDE suite.

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon R5 230 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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g01df1sh 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 21:32:31
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1612
From: UK


Keep A1200 with 060 thats all you need for classic PPC on classic is fun if you have money to blow. Finding the cards is a challenge and they are well pricey. X5000 / a1222 is the way forward. What ever you do dont sell your 060 i sold my 060 picassio IV zorro2 bus board A1200 years ago regreted it ever since now stuck with a ACA1233n with mediator pci bus board voodoo3. So might try warp 3d but I guess that is not going to be that great with a 030

Last edited by g01df1sh on 16-Feb-2019 at 09:38 PM.

_________________
A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
A1200 Power Tower mediator Voodoo3
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation

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Rose 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 16-Feb-2019 22:01:10
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 568
From: Unknown

@hlt

Quote:
3. I found that there is AAMP (Apache, MySql, PHP), this is the most important thing for me. Anyone has some feedback about it?


Check the version numbers.
* Apache 2.2.11 (http://httpd.apache.org)
* MySQL 5.1.35 (http://www.mysql.com)
* PHP 5.2.10 (http://php.net)

This suffers from same than several other Amiga ports. No one kept it uptodate.

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kas1e 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 17-Feb-2019 5:46:29
#9 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3304
From: Russia

@hlt

Quote:

It would be easier to decide to go X5000 route if I could use it for my work, not only hobby.


Then you will be disappointed. It is exactly for hobby, not for real work. Those ppls who expect from x5000/x1000 whatver to be PC replacements, was very fast dissapointed.

Quote:

I need text editor which has PHP/JS/HTML syntax highlighting. Is there any for AOS 4.1?


There few, any of them will have limitations you don't meet on PC/win32 versions of same level toolz. There is nothing like notepadd++ or whatever you expect. Do we have almost good and usable text-editors ? Yes. Are they better than counter analogs on win32 ? No. The feels different of course, they intersting, they can be used, but once you want to compare and use it for real work, you will be disappointed.

Quote:

2. I believe Odyssey has no HTML Inspector and Console to monitor HTTP requests? I use this a lot in Firefox or Chrome during development.


Odyssey has that, for exampl expector:
https://www.amigaos.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/oddyssey3.png

But odyssey is less stable that firefox or chrome. So during your development expect issues :) It also less compatible (on all amiga platforms), than current ones on win32, of course.

Quote:

3. I found that there is AAMP (Apache, MySql, PHP), this is the most important thing for me. Anyone has some feedback about it?


Never count on the such kind of software to be used on amigaos4 for real work. It may work, it may works almost as you wish, but you will have random issues from time to time for sure, and you will faced with the main problem : no one will update it or fix bugs in, if you will find them.

So, while i like my x5000, and we all love to see new users , you still should know that for hobby, and some developing it is ok. But for real work : none of amiga hardware/software is ok. Sure, some can replace something, some can works somehow, but once you start to use it all for real hardcore work, and ask it to be PC replacement you will trap into the hole called "wtf ! i disappointed!" :)

But what is for sure, is that with x5000 you will have less hardware problems than with mostered a1200. You will have no needs to touch soldering iron, replug gfx card in different slots all the time (as it happens sometime in mediator), find out some patches somewhere which "should work" , and so on. With x5000 you will have same issues as with all other amiga software, but in terms of hardware, it is for sure better and feels like real computer, not like retro-kit (which in end will be the same priced as x5000)

Last edited by kas1e on 17-Feb-2019 at 05:51 AM.
Last edited by kas1e on 17-Feb-2019 at 05:47 AM.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

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Trixie 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 17-Feb-2019 7:11:23
#10 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1719
From: Czech Republic

@hlt

Quote:
once you want to compare and use it for real work, you will be disappointed

I agree with kas1e on this. Today you should take anything Amiga (including its NG incarnations) with a huge pinch of salt. It is a hobby computer, and while it's perfectly good at that, it would be naive to expect it can replace your PC or Mac for daily work. Maybe via Linux, which runs quite well on the X5000, but then you won't be using an Amiga - and getting the expensive X5000 only to run a PPC distro of Linux is a bit outlandish

Quote:
But what is for sure, is that with x5000 you will have less hardware problems than with monstered a1200.

Also agreed. The X5000 is a reasonably modern, standard PC-class hardware that will be less prone to hardware problems compared to a 30-year-old computer with various 3rd party expansions.

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon R5 230 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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dan.hutch 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 17-Feb-2019 10:50:34
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 505
From: United Kingdom

Agree with kas1e here with regards to hardware reliability.

I had two different two A1200 tower systems in the early 2000s. An Eyetech Z4 system which was a nightmare in hindsight, unstable from the word go, problems with the connector berween the accelerator slot and bus board.

Later I had a Power Tower and Mediator, Voodoo graphics card, which lasted much longer and was more stable. That system had a Blizzard PPC and OS 3.9, broke it up and sold it to upgrade to Micro A1 and OS4.

Never missed either of the A1200 tower systems. I think the A1200 is best kept in its original form factor having done it twice with two different tower solutions.

The systems I regret selling are my A600 with its fast ram and compact flash drive and most of all my Amiga Tech A1200 with 030 Apollo board. The later was cannibalised to make the Power Tower and broken up and sold off as parts a few years later.

Now in 2019 I don't see the point in towering an A1200, it will lose some of its charm and reliability. If you want to max out the A1200 maybe wait for the new Vampire board which will give RTG, some more speed and let you keep the classic look and feel.

EDIT: why do I use predictive text on Android when there's a perfectly good PC the other side of the room?

Last edited by dan.hutch on 17-Feb-2019 at 10:54 AM.

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nbache 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 17-Feb-2019 22:49:56
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 936
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@hlt

Just a slightly different view on AAMP from me. I'm currently using it on X1000, but that won't make a lot of difference.

While it is true that AAMP has outdated versions of the components, I find that it is perfectly possible to develop modest LAMP type applications with it. Most of what you want to do is not dependent on having the very latest MySQL or PHP or indeed Apache.

Of course it is not fit for actual production (for one thing, the Apache port is limited to fulfilling one request at a time), but while developing, I find it useful enough.

I find the lack of a contemporary browser supporting HTML5 and, as has already been mentioned, with decent developer tools (request/response monitoring etc.) much more of a hindrance. But that is only when you venture into more advanced projects with e.g. Angular or other things, and then you will already have moved on to developing on other platforms in order to take advantage of their IDEs and other tools.

Best regards,

Niels

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matthey 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 18-Feb-2019 0:30:43
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote:
Keep A1200 with 060 thats all you need for classic PPC on classic is fun if you have money to blow. Finding the cards is a challenge and they are well pricey. X5000 / a1222 is the way forward. What ever you do dont sell your 060 i sold my 060 picassio IV zorro2 bus board A1200 years ago regreted it ever since now stuck with a ACA1233n with mediator pci bus board voodoo3. So might try warp 3d but I guess that is not going to be that great with a 030


I would be very surprised if Warp3D works with a Voodoo 3 and 68030+6888x. The last 68k big box Voodoo 3 (Avenger) drivers look like they are compiled in GCC for the 68040 so use the FSop and FDop instructions which the 6888x does not have. The sources could be recompiled for a 68030+68882 target by A-Eon but the 68k still receives 2nd rate support from Hyperion and A-Eon so good luck.

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hlt 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 18-Feb-2019 8:50:35
#14 ]
New Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2018
Posts: 6
From: Unknown

Wow, so many replies, now I see whole situation better...

I believe will keep my A1200 in desktop case with Indivision and 060 untouched for retro feeling and pull a trigger for X5000. Just ordered additional 27" Samsung and slim logitech keyboard :D.

I believe I be able to handle some PHP/JS coding and running it on AAMP just for tests on localhost, before uploading to Linux production servers. In case this works and I be able to continue my work on existing project I will put a badge on web site https://gps-server.net "Made on Amiga" :)).

Last edited by hlt on 18-Feb-2019 at 09:17 AM.

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Trixie 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 18-Feb-2019 12:20:01
#15 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1719
From: Czech Republic

@matthey

Quote:
the 68k still receives 2nd rate support from Hyperion and A-Eon

And that is hardly going to change, considering that neither Hyperion, nor A-EON have a development team for 68K. Things are not going to change just because you have deemed 68K to be the "platform of the future" based on your personal wishful thinking.

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon R5 230 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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matthey 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 18-Feb-2019 19:23:57
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

Trixie wrote:
And that is hardly going to change, considering that neither Hyperion, nor A-EON have a development team for 68K. Things are not going to change just because you have deemed 68K to be the "platform of the future" based on your personal wishful thinking.


Based on your comment, which of the following logic do you disagree with?

1) Potential customers of new Amiga hardware consider support as part of their buying decision.
2) Hyperion and A-Eon support the "current" architecture.
3) The X5000 likely uses one of the last PPC architecture designs.
4) New Amiga hardware is likely to have a new architecture making it the "current" architecture.

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dan.hutch 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 18-Feb-2019 21:08:41
#17 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 505
From: United Kingdom

@hlt

Great, I think the right decision to keep the A1200 in its original state.

You're going to have a top drawer OS3 system alongside the flagship OS4 system, Amiga heaven.

Look forward to seeing pictures of the dream team once all setup. Would be interesting to hear how you get on with the work you are hoping to do on the X5000 too. Keep us updated!

Last edited by dan.hutch on 18-Feb-2019 at 09:11 PM.

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hlt 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 18-Feb-2019 23:29:50
#18 ]
New Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2018
Posts: 6
From: Unknown

@dan.hutch

Sure, as soon as it is here I'll show something and give some kind of review.

For now here is my A1200 060 (needs new key caps) together with two NOS magic packs

https://postimg.cc/vcp9dyw5

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dan.hutch 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 19-Feb-2019 8:30:09
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 505
From: United Kingdom

@hlt

Wow! Are those NOS machines completely unused? They look very fresh.

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hlt 
Re: Ultimate A1200 or X5000
Posted on 19-Feb-2019 8:39:49
#20 ]
New Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2018
Posts: 6
From: Unknown

@dan.hutch

Yes, even with warranty stickers untouched, only boxes look a big old, but machines are new. Just love A1200 models :)

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