@cdimauro

Quote:

What do you think that is already UK now? A single, homogeneous, country? Why don't you ask Scottish what do they think about UK.

The Scottish people were offered a referendum on the issue and voted to remain in the UK. The SNP would be wise to respect the outcome of the referendum just as UK MPs should respect the Brexit referendum and if they are too stupid to accept Theresa May's deal then we should leave without a deal - that is logical and allows everyone especially businesses to know where they stand and get on with their lives!

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Again, plain delirium. You're no different from the terrorists that want to implant an Islamic state.

That is a ridiculously bigoted and uneducated thing to say. Your country had a rich Christian (Lutheran) heritage that you turned your back on just as the UK turned its back on a Christian (Anglican, Methodist and Baptist) heritage.

What good has secular humanism done us? Has it made us more civilised, loving, less likely to kill our unborn children (for example)?

EU Data 2015: 178 unborn babies were killed per 1000 live births! The only thing keeping this figure as low as it is are the poorer Catholic countries not the 'advanced' economies of the UK and France (Germany is still a rate of 135 per 1000 which is still over 1 baby aborted for every 10 born - horrendous). We are not the shining lights of progress that we think we are!

Whatever your view on the sanctity of life that is not the sign of a more civilised group of countries IMHO.

Finally, you have no right to compare my faith in Jesus with jihadis and terror - REPORTED.

Last edited by BigD on 10-Apr-2019 at 12:38 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Apr-2019 at 10:45 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Apr-2019 at 10:38 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Apr-2019 at 10:30 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Apr-2019 at 10:30 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@cdimauro

Quote:

and you can even become slave if you weren't able to pay your debts (yes, even selling you sons: the Bible clearly specify the price to pay for a male or female son).

... and yet that's exactly what Germany / EU has done to Greece. They are enslaved to you because of their debt and you bend their sovereign national policies to your will in order to service that debt. And in the process you nearly pushed them to civil unrest and war against all the original anti-war rational for setting up the EU in the first place!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD Quote:

BigD wrote: @cdimauro Quote: What do you think that is already UK now? A single, homogeneous, country? Why don't you ask Scottish what do they think about UK. The Scottish people were offered a referendum on the issue and voted to remain in the UK. The SNP would be wise to respect the outcome of the referendum just as UK MPs should respect the Brexit referendum

Wrong. That referendum was made BEFORE the Brexit one. AFTER the last one, Scottish people (which are more in favore of EU) is more prone to exit UK and embrace (again, after the Brexit) EU.
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and if they are too stupid to accept Theresa May's deal then we should leave without a deal - that is logical and allows everyone especially businesses to know where they stand and get on with their lives!

I'm perfectly fine with an hard brexit: that's what I hope.
Quote:

Quote: Again, plain delirium. You're no different from the terrorists that want to implant an Islamic state. That is a ridiculously bigoted

Do you known the meaning of "bigot"? It seems that you don't.

Otherwise you can clearly explain why.
Quote:

and uneducated thing to say.

Again, you don't know the meaning of that term. Go take a look at the Collins.
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Your country had a rich Christian (Lutheran) heritage that you turned your back on just as the UK turned its back on a Christian (Anglican, Methodist and Baptist) heritage.

Well, I live in Germany, albeit I'm Italian. But, more precisely, I come from the Syracuse province (south Italy).

It means that my heritage is Greek (Syracuse was the second biggest Greek city, after Athene). Hence, long life to Zeus, Apollo, Aphrodite, etc.
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What good has secular humanism done us? Has it made us more civilised, loving,

Absolutely. Thanks to the science/progress/civilization, we left more than 1000 years of Dark Age, which basically frozen our society, flattening it towards a god-centric model, which gave us Perls like the "Saint" (sic!) Inquisition, Witch-hunt, stakes, etc.
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less likely to kill our unborn children (for example)? EU Data 2015: 178 unborn babies were killed per 1000 live births! The only thing keeping this figure as low as it is are the poorer Catholic countries not the 'advanced' economies of the UK and France (Germany is still a rate of 135 per 1000 which is still over 1 baby aborted for every 10 born - horrendous). We are not the shining lights of progress that we think we are!

Aborted fetus aren't children.

Anyway, a women has tenths of natural aborts in the course of her life. Natural = god- approved (remember what Saint Augustin said? EVERYTHING happens due to god)!
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Whatever your view on the sanctity of life

There's nothing "saint": not even life. Life is... life. Dot.
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that is not the sign of a more civilised group of countries IMHO.

Is it more civil let a woman die because it cannot continue the pregnancy? Or a little girl to have a baby due to rape?

Or, is it more civilized covering pedophiles and moving the from church to church, without bringing them to jail, instead?
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Finally, you have no right to compare my faith in Jesus with jihadis and terror - REPORTED.

Wrong report: I NEVER had something to say about your faith in Jesus, Mohammed, Krisna, or whatever imaginary personality that you like to believe on.

You're free to pray who you like, and you can do it because we are in civil society, which doesn't burn people which are not aligned to the local religion. Any reference to your religion is NOT casual.

What I compared is this:

"return to our Christian heritage, return to a respect for the Bible"

which, for a society, is exactly equal to follow the Qumran for a muslin.
Quote:

Quote: and you can even become slave if you weren't able to pay your debts (yes, even selling you sons: the Bible clearly specify the price to pay for a male or female son). ... and yet that's exactly what Germany / EU has done to Greece. They are enslaved to you because of their debt and you bend their sovereign national policies to your will in order to service that debt. And in the process you nearly pushed them to civil unrest and war against all the original anti-war rational for setting up the EU in the first place!

Complete non-sense a wrong example.

Again, go take a look at the Collins and to the meaning of "slavery".

BTW, slavery was NOT abolished by your Jesus. It was abolished by civilized citizens WELL BEFORE that the church decide it.

Another example, Vatican was the LAST state in Europe to abolish the death penalty.

That's talking about "more civilized" societies...

Last edited by cdimauro on 10-Apr-2019 at 08:20 PM.

@cdimauro

Quote:

Another example, Vatican was the LAST state in Europe to abolish the death penalty.

Last time I checked Belarus was still a part of Europe...

Note Vatican was among the first European states to abolish capital punishment (in 1969).

@pavlor: not really. Unfortunately I haven't found the English version, but please take a look here: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pena_di_morte#Dottrina_cattolica_odierna You can translate it with Google:

"La pena di morte in Città del Vaticano non era prevista per alcun reato già dal 1967, su iniziativa di papa Paolo VI; tuttavia venne rimossa dalla Legge fondamentale solo il 12 febbraio 2001, su iniziativa di Giovanni Paolo II."

@BrianHoskins

Quote:

But it does highlight that democracy is kind of a broken system. It might be the best system of governance that we currently have, but it has significant short-comings

Yes, I think so too. The U.S. system tries to hinder direct democracy by mechanisms such as a bicameral legislature and the electoral college, but in the end it may not be sufficient. T.S. Eliot wrote of people "dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good."

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@cdimauro

That part is marked as senza fonte , which means citation needed.

Could you provide a valid source for your claim other than unverifiable user submitted content? Note there was no execution in the Vatican jurisdiction for more than 100 years, so any arguing about final legal date is a moot point.

@bison

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as a bicameral legislature

Benefits of bicameral legislature are proven by hundreds years of experiments on people. As my brother says, I would rather have Congress than Convention.

@cdimauro

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Wrong. That referendum was made BEFORE the Brexit one. AFTER the last one, Scottish people (which are more in favore of EU) is more prone to exit UK and embrace (again, after the Brexit) EU.

Only rabid extremists would break up the UK for the chance to cling to the decaying husk of anti-democratic federalistic quangoism. You over exaggerate the pro-EU feeling in Scotland because Nicola Sturgeon likes the sound of her own voice and wrongly thinks she's the Angela Merkel of Scotland!

Rest assured the UK will ensure while the creaking EU will breed resentment and economic ruin in the long run. e.g. Greece; a 'slave' to Germany's selfish EU monetary policy and lack of flexibility to set policy to help individual member states.

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"return to our Christian heritage, return to a respect for the Bible" which, for a society, is exactly equal to follow the Qumran for a muslin.

You are bigoted, uneducated and stubborn. We owe most of our freedoms and laws to our Christian heritage. We don't need a Christian state in order for Christians to live out their faith in public office and affect Europe for good. May be if there were more prayer groups and Christian Unions in the European Parliament (11,000 civil servants shuffling paper) / Commission (32,000 civil servants shuffling paper) / Council of the European Union (3,500 civil servants shuffling paper) then the EU would be less of a creaking authoritarian relic and more of a force for good in the world! It might even reform to be more accountable and more democratic - there's a thought!

We owe nothing to Islam in regards to our history / laws / freedoms etc or indeed any other 'man-made' religions. Islam has brought historical assaults on the south of Spain and terror attacks in Europe in spite of our close political / military links with Saudi Arabia.

Again, how dare you compare my faith in Jesus Christ with jihadis! That's like comparing the signing of the Magna Carta, the provision of free education for all for the first time (through Christian benefactors) and the abolition of slavery through the `Christian' William Wilberforce to the jihadi 7/7 bombings in London and the 911 attacks. You must be sick to make that comparison!

You show extreme pomposity and very simplistic grasp of both what Jesus taught and a disregard of the positive impact of Christianity in Europe

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2019 at 09:28 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: Only rabid extremists would break up the UK for the chance to cling to the decaying husk of anti-democratic federalistic quangoism.

"Only rabid extremists would break up the EU for the chance to cling to the decaying husk of anti-democratic monarchy." See how easy this is?

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You over exaggerate the pro-EU feeling in Scotland because Nicola Sturgeon likes the sound of her own voice and wrongly thinks she's the Angela Merkel of Scotland!

I take it you haven't been to Scotland much recently. I suggest you travel and take a poll and see how people feel. After all, the independence referendum was pretty close, and one of the major selling points put forward by the UK government to remain a part of the UK was that staying meant Scotland was still in the EU. A couple of years later and the UK government has turned 180 on that promise and is dragging Scotland out of the EU kicking and screaming.

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Rest assured the UK will ensure while the creaking EU will breed resentment and economic ruin in the long run. e.g. Greece; a 'slave' to Germany's selfish EU monetary policy and lack of flexibility to set policy to help individual member states.

Helping individual member states is *precisely* what the EU does and is for. And it's pretty good at it too.

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You are bigoted, uneducated and stubborn.

Stubborn, yes, but not the others. He's also correct on that point. Why is Christian heritage any more valid for modern society than Muslim heritage? Remember to leave your narrow-minded bias at the door before answering that one.

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We owe most of our freedoms and laws to our Christian heritage.

Are you for f'ing real? Christian and freedom have rarely gone hand-in-hand over the centuries. It's only relatively recently that society has enjoyed relative freedom from religion, and even today it still holds an unwarranted power over so many.

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May be if there were more prayer groups and Christian Unions in the European Parliament (11,000 civil servants shuffling paper) / Commission (32,000 civil servants shuffling paper) / Council of the European Union (3,500 civil servants shuffling paper) then the EU would be less of a creaking authoritarian relic and more of a force for good in the world!

I have a lot of paperwork to do in my job - do you think God will do it for me if I ask him or her nicely?

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We owe nothing to Islam in regards to our history / laws / freedoms etc or indeed any other 'man-made' religions.

Why the quotes? All religions are man-made. Our history is dominated by Christianity, purely because it was Christianity that had a totalitarian influence over the regions in which our cultures developed.

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Islam has brought historical assaults on the south of Spain and terror attacks in Europe in spite of our close political / military links with Saudi Arabia.

Delusional crazies bring terror attacks. Muslims are also frequent victims of terror attacks, as the recent massacre in New Zealand demonstrates.

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Again, how dare you compare my faith in Jesus Christ with jihadis! That's like comparing the signing of the Magna Carta, the provision of free education for all for the first time (through Christian benefactors) and the abolition of slavery through the `Christian' William Wilberforce to the jihadi 7/7 bombings in London and the 911 attacks. You must be sick to make that comparison!

Well, your faith is equally blinkered and bias-inducing, illustrated by how you've made up your own false comparison, purely so you can act offended. Jesus has been used as an excuse for wars, invasions, murder and enslavement over the centuries - surely you're aware of that? Or is that excusable because the victims were nasty heathen savages?

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You show extreme pomposity and very simplistic grasp of both what Jesus taught and a disregard of the positive impact of Christianity in Europe

You show astounding arrogance and ignorance of the Christian history upon which mediaeval Europe was built. I mean, there have even been wars between different factions of Christianity, and tensions are still very close to the surface in places like Northern Ireland, threatening to bubble up again after a couple of decades of peace because of the UK's (or let's face it, England's) selfish interests.

_________________
RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

@Daedalus

Quote:

tensions are still very close to the surface in places like Northern Ireland, threatening to bubble up again after a couple of decades of peace because of the UK's (or let's face it, England's) selfish interests.

We the British majority are not going to sleepwalk into a European Super State foregoing most of our hard fought democratic and self-determination freedoms built on centuries of Christian heritage and respect and worship of Yahweh and the uplifting of Jesus' teachings and the Bible as compass for British lives both public and private. Scotland is not one voice speaking in unison either and given the choice and some hard soul searching Northern Ireland and Scotland know that we (the Welsh and English) are more reliable allies than the EU will ever be.

The EU is like the comfortable sensation of being in a swimming pool of warm water that is slowly being brought to the boil and you not realising that you are being harmed until it's too late.

The Northern Irish / Republic of Ireland Irish do not have to use Christianity as an excuse to shoot or bomb each other. They have the choice to act like civilised human beings like the rest of us. We will not surrender self determination and democratic and economic freedom for the UK because of the ridiculous assumption that we require EU intervention to keep Northern Ireland a peaceful nation! The British and Irish governments brokered the Good Friday Agreement not the EU! We are perfectly able to solve our own political problems and have a good relationship with the Irish Government.

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2019 at 10:21 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: We the British majority

Discounting Scotland and Northern Ireland of course, who both voted with a large majority to stay in the EU.

Quote:

are not going to sleepwalk into a European Super State foregoing most of our hard fort democratic and self-determination freedoms build on centuries of Christian heritage and respect, worship and uplifting of Jesus' teachings and the Bible as compass for British lives both public and private.

What the Fcuk has christian heritage got to do with it? If you need some mediaeval story book to teach you right from wrong, you've got some serious issues. You genuinely want a state governed by religion? That's the opposite of freedom.

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Scotland is not one voice speaking in unison either and given the choice and some hard soul searching Northern Ireland and Scotland know that we (the Welsh and English) are more reliable allies than the EU will ever be.

Again, Scotland and Northern Ireland both voted to remain in the EU, and by a large margin.

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The Northern Irish / Republic of Ireland Irish do not have to use Christianity as an excuse to shoot or bomb each other.

Yet the differences between two similar sub-cults of Christianity are exactly what defines the sectarian tensions.
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They have the choice to act like civilised human beings like the rest of us. We will not surrender self determination and democratic and economic freedom for the UK because of the ridiculous assumption that we require EU intervention to keep Northern Ireland a peaceful nation!

Ah, self-determination, like how Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU but are being dragged out of it instead. Self-determination is all well and good when it's in your own selfish interest. And your economic freedom is doing wonders already - your car industry is tanking, and Sterling is still worth less than it was before the Brexit referendum.

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The British and Irish governments brokered the Good Friday Agreement not the EU!

And? Nobody said otherwise. The EU are only getting dragged into it because the UK is threatening to ditch the GFA by building an international border across Ireland.

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We are perfectly able to solve our own political problems and have a good relationship with the Irish Government.

Seriously? Your parliament seemingly can't decide on anything at all at the moment, unless you hadn't noticed. Do they want Brexit? Do they not? What sort of Brexit? Westminster is an absolute mess at the moment - you should be embarrassed to call them your government.

As for getting on with the Irish government, well that all depends on whether the UK government decides to respect their own Good Friday Agreement, or chuck it in the bin because their ability to negotiate their own trade deals is more important than saving Christian lives.

Last edited by Daedalus on 11-Apr-2019 at 11:32 AM.

_________________
RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

@Daedalus

Quote:

As for getting on with the Irish government, well that all depends on whether the UK government decides to respect their own Good Friday Agreement, or chuck it in the bin because their ability to negotiate their own trade deals is more important than saving Christian lives.

People should take responsibility for their own actions. A so called 'Christian' that fights against the rulers of this world is not following the character of Jesus described in the Bible. We are to submit to and pray for our rulers not declare war on them!

Again, we don't need the EU to 'force' us to be peaceful! It's like 1984 to be honest and THE MAJORITY OF THE UK voted to leave! Subdividing the UK into its constituent 'nations' when it suits you in order to breed disharmony is downright pigheaded, stirring up dissent and is completely self serving. Scotland and N. Ireland did not speak in a single voice and the referendum was run on total votes in the UK not along constituency or regional lines! Your comments regarding, "this part of the country voted this" and "that part of the country voted that" is pointless and if listened to will lead to anarchy which is exactly why the SNP keep saying it - arrogant fools!

Great Britain & NI unite and seize this opportunity to be self governing again and forge our own future.

P.S. It is the Brexit uncertainty that is bringing economic turmoil not Brexit itself. We'd have been better with 'No Deal' than dragging this rubbish out until October! We still have a Trade Deal to negotiate with the EU and that is the main event IMHO.

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2019 at 12:29 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2019 at 12:12 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: People should take responsibility for their own actions. A Christian that fights against the rulers of this world is not following the character of Jesus described in the Bible. We are to submit to and pray for our rulers not declare war on them!

What the hell does that even mean, back here in the real world? Are you washing your Christian hands of any deaths or hatred that happen as a direct result of sectarian tensions provoked by Brexit? How very selfish of you.

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Again, we don't need the EU to 'force' us to be peaceful! It's like 1984 to be honest and THE MAJORITY OF THE UK voted to leave! Subdividing the UK into its constituent 'nations' when it suits you in order to breed disharmony is downright pigheaded, stirring up dissent and is completely self serving.

Oh, the irony.
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BigD wrote: we (the Welsh and English) are more reliable allies than the EU will ever be.

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Scotland and N. Ireland did not speak in a single voice and the referendum was run on total votes in the UK not along constituency or regional lines!

And the UK is speaking with a single voice? What is that single voice saying? Hard Brexit? Soft Brexit? No Brexit? Brexit will definitely happen on March 29th? It seems your precious kingdom's voice is in far more disarray than the Scottish voice.

Besides, arbitrary lines dividing people with common interests are exactly what Brexit is about bringing back. It's what you seem to crave, so some more of them surely won't bother you much in your comfortable little English kingdom.

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Your comments regarding, "this part of the country voted this" and "that part of the country voted that" is pointless and if listened to will lead to anarchy

Are you saying I should just shut up and tow the line then? Why is that? Because it doesn't fall in with your own personal archaic views?

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which is exactly why the SNP keep saying it - arrogant fools!

Hahaha. Always funny to see people reduced to insults when presented with a credible viewpoint they can't accept.

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Great Britain & NI unite and seize this opportunity to be self governing again and forge our own future.

Ah, didn't you have a problem with being self-serving in the very same post?

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P.S. It is the Brexit uncertainty that is bringing economic turmoil not Brexit itself.

Explain to me how you can have one without the other. On the other hand, if there was no vote for Brexit, the economy on the whole would be much better off.

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We'd have been better with 'No Deal' than dragging this rubbish out until October! We still have a Trade Deal to negotiate with the EU and that is the main event IMHO.

Sounds like you're parroting all those privileged, self-serving politicians you seem to put your faith behind, despite them being unable to organise anything other than begging for more time to argue amongst themselves. You already had the best possible trade deal with the EU and you've turned your nose up at that.

_________________
RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

@Daedalus

Quote:

Are you saying I should just shut up and tow the line then? Why is that?

Just as with ANY election, at some point you just have to accept the result. 'Remainers' represent the worst sort of 'throw your teddies out of the pram' type voters that have (especially in the case of the 'Remainer' MPs) actually done NOTHING to help negotiate a good deal for the UK going forwards.

The solution:

You need to all get with the program, accept the majority UK view and stop trying to incite insurrection. If you can't stomach that then yes, you'll just have to restrain yourself and stop talking on this issue until the negotiations are complete!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Daedalus

Quote:

You already had the best possible trade deal with the EU and you've turned your nose up at that.

A great trade deal with no political, legal or economic freedom is not worth it! We joined the European Economic Community and never agreed the political element. It is frankly abhorrent to the majority of UK voters that we have sleep walked into a restrictive federalist non-democratic European Super State! We want out and we will renegotiate a trade deal to suit us without the unelected quangos in Brussels thank you very much!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: Just as with ANY election, at some point you just have to accept the result.

Just accepting something is how the world was stuck in the dark ages for centuries, how dictatorships and empires rose and fluorished, how genocide became normalised. You can be unhappy with a situation and wish for better things, people do it all the time. Anyway, things change and people's opinions change (at least those people who aren't blinded by irrational faith). After all, hasn't your beloved Brexit PM asked the parliament to vote on the same thing again and again, just because she didn't get the result she wanted? It's ok to be unhappy with a situation, especially one as clearly flawed as the whole Brexit mess was, and still is.

Quote:

'Remainers' represent the worst sort of 'throw your teddies out of the pram' type voters that have (especially in the case of the 'Remainer' MPs) actually done NOTHING to help negotiate a good deal for the UK going forwards.

Yet you've consistently ignored many of my questions and points. In any democracy, you have to accept that a) people change their minds, especially as things change over time, b) there will almost always be opposition to political movements in any direction. After all, it was only a tiny majority that won the leave referendum (not an election, by the way). And, after all, the UK did vote to join the EEC at the time. Surely that vote should be respected, no?

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You need to all get with the program, accept the majority UK view and stop trying to incite insurrection. If you can't stomach that then yes, you'll just have to restrain yourself and stop talking on this issue until the negotiations are complete!

Yes Sir! Clearly the voice of reason, taking advice from an imaginary friend...

_________________
RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: A great trade deal with no political, legal or economic freedom is not worth it! We joined the European Economic Community and never agreed the political element. It is frankly abhorrent to the majority of UK voters that we have sleep walked into a restrictive federalist non-democratic European Super State! We want out and we will renegotiate a trade deal to suit us without the unelected quangos in Brussels thank you very much!

Ah yes, of course. You're ok to have lower wages, higher food prices, higher taxes to pay for higher medical bills, but that's totally worth it because you get to play empires again.

I find it funny that you call them unelected, when a key issue with Brexit currently is whether you will have to vote in the EU elections next month. Besides, you're ignoring the fact that there was no election for a replacement prime minister in the UK after David Cameron set this whole mess in motion, nor has anyone in the House of Lords been elected.

I'm curious though - which restrictions specifically are a problem for you?

_________________
RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

@Daedalus

The main 'restriction' is that we take legal 'directives' directly from the quango that is the European Commission and are expected to swallow it because the so called 'directly elected' (proportional representation lists is NOT democracy as I know it) MEPs rubber stamp it!

It is top down 'pseudo' democracy at its worst. None of those bureaucrats are accountable to the electorate. Even Nigel Farage represents a rottweiler unleashed on the European Parliament rather than giving any pretence of bringing his region's specific concerns to the European Parliament (because the Commission formulates the laws and isn't listening).

Legislation is all composed of big sweeping federalist ideals rather than specific 'suggestions' to member states to improve our lives. It is meddling, it is undemocratic and it is no better than being conquered by the Roman Empire. Yes, they built some nice spas in southern England and some useful roads but the 'soft southerners' were treated as subjects and second class citizens compared to true Romans (insert Belgians, French and Germans here for the EU) and the ungovernable Scottish (how things change ) were treated as marauding barbarians! The EU treats us with no less disdain and undermines our freedoms in the same way.

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2019 at 04:32 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2019 at 03:17 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Daedalus

Quote:

Ah yes, of course. You're ok to have lower wages, higher food prices, higher taxes to pay for higher medical bills, but that's totally worth it because you get to play empires again.

No doubt you'll enjoy your sanitised little state funded residential care home when the time comes

... no risk, no bother, your beloved Irn-Bru on tap! You'll hardly notice you're not allowed to walk out the door on your own

We're so honoured the EU Development Fund sees fit to give some of our own money back to us and tells us how to spend it correctly!

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2019 at 03:35 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios