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Srtest
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Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion. Posted on 13-Apr-2019 22:01:01
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Joined: 15-Nov-2016 Posts: 259
From: Israel, Haderah | | |
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| @megol
Sorry mate but this is exactly what you are repeating - the failure to understand the perofrmance of the smartphone is both a continuation of his trolling about the original Amiga and a lack of a definition to what that performance is. You can get Silicon Graphics 18 processors doing whatever working on Toy Story 18 - the holodeck version and it would still not have the effect of the Amiga doing everything in the simplest way and allowing everyone to do something in their rooms which no designer could predict, especially the ones who worked on the 68k line. That said, you could argue that that cpu's ability to just fit into the Amiga model proved its worth and you could say the same about a multicore approach.
When we talk about processors and cores, not understanding their human function makes that discussion pointless. AMD got back in the game by doing a mixture of cores and great pricing, however that only emphasized how the current situation has nothing to do with multicore in itself or the quality of the processor as far as efficieny/energy goes. The PWRficient did and thus allowed the existence of the X1k beyond what makes the monolithic consumer cpu situation work, eventually allowing the gpu to shine and bring the os 20 years from the past.
So what would you call the relationship between the cpu and the gpu? You can't find cores there which work in unison? Does it have to be about a no. of cores making a single cpu? Last edited by Srtest on 13-Apr-2019 at 10:03 PM.
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Srtest
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Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion. Posted on 13-Apr-2019 23:09:25
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Regular Member |
Joined: 15-Nov-2016 Posts: 259
From: Israel, Haderah | | |
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| @thread
You know, I just saw an ad in the paper about a 4k 50'' tv with Android 7. Let me repeat that - a 4k "smart" 50'' tv with Android 7 which I guess allows that ad to call that tv "smart". If you here don't get what that means and how that should've been us, then you are really lost in this small bubble. What kind of processor and cores that tv has? who knows as long as it is good enough to watch movies at 4k, maybe with HDR. Maybe also good enough for other things and especially casual to semi-casual web apps. So when you talk about performance of cores and what Amiga missed, not understanding that is key to making it all about missing out on the pc market. I get that. I would take AOS at its current state 10x times over Android to drive my tv and yet here we are. This makes it a situation where we can't use a market OR a certain fexibility which would've allowed to put everything into a small device or as a part in a bigger one and go from there. That last part is the least important one and if the multicore debate doesn't help getting us "there" then it is redundant.
Last edited by Srtest on 13-Apr-2019 at 11:09 PM.
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Signal
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Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion. Posted on 14-Apr-2019 14:52:58
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Cult Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
From: USA | | |
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| @Srtest
There are times when workable solutions come from unexpected sources. It may be something somebody mentions about how something else works or..... anything. The important thing is to have as many ideas as possible put forth and discussed in a reasonable manner. Of course they won't all be gems, but perhaps idea number 2 and idea number 7 combined to form idea number 17 which leads to a possible path to success.
Just think of the many accelerators that came along for the classics. Some only provided a faster CPU and maybe an FPU, others have a different ISA chip. Set a patch and they work. The Picasso IV worked magic for graphics. Ideas, discussion, food for thought.
I would call the relationship between the CPU and GPU harmonious. They do not need to speak the same data lanugage internally as long as they understand the messaging protocol. _________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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Srtest
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Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion. Posted on 16-Apr-2019 0:57:21
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Regular Member |
Joined: 15-Nov-2016 Posts: 259
From: Israel, Haderah | | |
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| @Signal
Far be it from myself or anyone else to inhibit a productive and limitless discussion about possible directions. The thing is, these discussions here tend to be self-serving and like talking in a vacuum headlined by constant trolls who repeat their cliches.
There isn't such a thing as a theoretical discussion about this. If you were a competitor in x86 then each and any design you might have come up with would be subjected to that particular situation (and in AMD's case at the same time both help it compete and strengthen the hold of that architecture past its expiration date) - the main word being design. If this is merely theoretical-in-space then you don't need one. You don't need a market either... I mean, I still see peeps online talking about the old Amiga being more expensive back in the day which is totally ridiculous (and I come from a country where it was much harder getting one not to mention support).
Now, if you operate in like... the possibilites of current appliances, you still need to be compatible. This is why you can find the linux-based Android in smart tvs. Funny how a big and celebrated corp like Google ends up having its most successful project being based on an out of house open source core... can you imagine if the Amiga was based on something like that?... Imagine the Amiga's hardware as simply an obscure in house "behind the scenes" multicore implimentation of some tv... you can't because it's not simply a core or compatible out of the box.
The point is, you need to theorize within the situation and understanding of what you work with which can't be about pricing since you don't have the selling of units and copies and also it can't be about some basic compatibility package to simply fit anywhere...
What is our particular situation? How can a multi-core approach fit it? If you can get a RPI and put it in a tv to make it "smart", isn't this like using an Amiga as a railway station controller? Only that simplicity of using your tv might open the window to what the Amiga was all about in my book. The world is a pretty complicated place right now and peeps are looking for simplicity in more ways than one. It doesn't matter if someone can achieve it using only a part of said Amiga and a compromise as far as the ability of something like multiple cores to work together some way enhancing or allowing an experience. Last edited by Srtest on 16-Apr-2019 at 01:53 AM. Last edited by Srtest on 16-Apr-2019 at 01:53 AM. Last edited by Srtest on 16-Apr-2019 at 01:00 AM.
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agami
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Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion. Posted on 16-Apr-2019 7:31:20
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Super Member |
Joined: 30-Jun-2008 Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @Signal
Quote:
...make a multicore processor as a slave to a Amiga useable processor. To spread out the workload among one or several processors and let AmigaOS run single threaded as a type of controller that just bosses the system. |
The Cell B.E. microprocessor would be a very suitable microprocessor as a multi-core stepping stone for AmigaOS 4.x and potentially MorphOS.
The interposer design is the ideal solution for maintaining compatibility for single-threaded applications that cannot, for whatever reason, be recompiled to take advantage of multi-threaded CPUs.
How does one do that with the existing X1000s and X5000s already out there? How much room is there in the firmware and the microcode to configure cpu0 as the interposer? Can it it be implemented with UMA, or will the memory need to be partitioned between cpu0 and the other CPUs (NUMA)?
Or is the answer to produce/procure a PCIe CPU card with an e500/e600 or Sam460 core that is implemented as the interposer?_________________ All the way, with 68k |
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Signal
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Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion. Posted on 16-Apr-2019 17:15:26
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Cult Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
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| @agami I like your thinking, and questions.
I especially liked the Quote:
Or is the answer to produce/procure a PCIe CPU card with an e500/e600 or Sam460 core that is implemented as the interposer? |
So maybe we are thinking of heterogeneous systems not just for data or in the way they do things but also in the way they would be controlled.
Small system on a PCIe card bossing around big brother. Sounds cool.
Pondering....
_________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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gonegahgah
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Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion. Posted on 16-Apr-2019 20:05:04
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Regular Member |
Joined: 5-Dec-2008 Posts: 148
From: Australia | | |
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| The 'time traveller' in me just wants to ask...
Could the original system designers have done something differently to that would have made smp easier today?
Or would it have bogged down the system too much back then?
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BigD
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Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion. Posted on 16-Apr-2019 21:31:58
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7307
From: UK | | |
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| @gonegahgah
It was a miracle AmigaOS held together as well as it did considering the AmigaDOS instability issues in the beginning and it being a replacement for CAOS when the contractor failed to deliver. There was no point adding more complexity beyond the already ingenius multitasking, responsiveness and support for the custom chips. Floppy Disk space and ROM sizes were still a limiting factor and multi core processors were not a serious consideration back then. Last edited by BigD on 16-Apr-2019 at 09:34 PM. Last edited by BigD on 16-Apr-2019 at 09:34 PM.
_________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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