Not saying don't make a mess or don't shit where you sleep but I find is funny that any European or American thinks they out do the 2.8 Billion people in India and China in terms of environmental impact

Though I am looking forward to the questions and answers to Hyperion

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@Argo

Funny, isn't it? This is an epic derail of the thread for two flights. It looks like Hyperion and the MorphOS team won't get a lot of questions on AmigaWorld

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This is just like television, only you can see much further.

@BSzili

If the 'noise' is overwhelming the conversation, maybe people aren't motivated to ask questions. That's a shame, but folks are free to comment or draw their own conclusions.

I have one for the MorphOS team:

Should Hyperion be stripped of its license to sell HyperionOS as AmigaOS, would you folks respond favorably to any solicitations for MorphOS to become the next AmigaOS or would that, in your collective view, best be avoided?

@BSzili

The questions go to Steve directly, not to the thread, so we may still be on track, all angst for the planet notwithstanding.

Last edited by bison on 14-May-2019 at 02:30 PM.

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@Snorg

Please email the question or it will not be included.

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Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@thread

The reason for insistence on emailing, is so that I have a record, it cannot be anonymous and shows a bit of effort

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Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@Zylesea

@clusteruk

Thanks, but, respectfully, my name or email won't change the question.

I appreciate your effort, though.

@Kremlar

What's so funny?

Quote:

BigD wrote: Until China... Unless China... Simplistic thinking will make matters worse

Yes, putting it all on China is simplistic thinking that will make matters worse. China is just following the industrialization model that we developed, and it's our appetite for cheap manufactured goods that encourages them.

Quote:

We in responsible western countries are not the problem, progress and job / wealth creation is not the problem...

'Responsible' western countries? Yes, those of us who put 'wealth creation' ahead of the environment are 'responsible' for this mess.

Quote:

...and a flight to promote peaceful communication amongst the Amiga commity sure as hell 'aint the problem.

It's just as much the problem as any other activity that produces large amounts of greenhouse gas.

In the early days of personal computing we thought they would be the answer to a lot of problems, including the need to physically travel to meet people. To some extent this has happened, but not nearly enough. Our cities and roadways are still clogged with cars belching CO2, and the skies are still filled with jet planes making vapor trails (which makes flying 50 times worse than driving in terms of five-year warming impact).

It would be over-simplistic to just look at the flight without considering any mitigating factors, but what could they be? One might hope that interviewing the Hyperion and MorphOS teams would help keep the Amiga community going, which might in some small way reduce damage to the environment caused by our constantly throwing old stuff away instead of reusing it. But would it be enough to make up for the equivalent of 50 gas-guzzling long distance car trips?

Considering the advanced computing technology we have today, why can't these interviews be done in a more environmentally friendly manner?

Quote:

and it's about time the morons who during the Extinction Rebellion in London super-glued themselves to PUBLIC TRANSPORT (part of the solution for cutting down on pollution and petrol / diesel use) are called out on their half baked and jingoistic call to arms!

Who here is suggesting pulling such a stunt? You are attacking a straw man.

Those people who glued themselves to a train were morons for sure, but they got one thing right - raising awareness is crucial to solving the problem. Their stunt was counter-productive though, because it gave people like you an excuse to dismiss the very real and important issues they were trying to bring to our attention.

Some of us are doing what we can to reduce waste and pollution, but without publicity our puny efforts are inconsequential. To really make a difference we have to encourage others to do the same. Yesterday I took my CO2 belching gas car to the recycler, as I had recently bought a second-hand Nissan Leaf to replace it. Electricity (which in New Zealand is 78% renewable) is 1/4 the price of petrol here. I bought the Leaf mainly to save money and because I like the technology, but also to show other people that there is an alternative to gas cars - just like there is an alternative to buying a new PC every two years.

As well as three Amigas I have several PCs which were all rescued from going to the tip, and all are still useful. Even if we don't know it, those of us who use 'vintage' computers are helping to save the planet. It would be pity if we were to nullify that good deed with related activities that produce even more pollution.

Last edited by bhabbott on 15-May-2019 at 03:20 AM.
Last edited by bhabbott on 15-May-2019 at 03:15 AM.

@Snorg

AKA, AmigaOS is then dead unless Hyperion pass the source code on or C-A Acquisitions restarted development from square one

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@Zylesea

Quote:

Reducing the actual CO2 footprint shows respect, too. Respect for the planet!

As you have not flown for a long time, you might be interested to know that several airlines offer passengers to pay an extra fee that is donated to projects that aim to offset carbon emissions caused by individual flights.

If a chosen airline does not offer this option or you prefer to choose how your funds are spent exactly, you can also use third-party services such as AtmosFair, which are accredited and offer an easy to use online calculator to figure out how much one should donate per flight.

For a flight from London to Berlin, you are recommended to donate between 10 and 15 EUR, which is certainly manageable.

Quote:

If you prefer physical meetings ther's still the train... It's worth a thought!

With a travelling distance of around 2,000 km, taking the train is not exactly equivalent in terms of the required time commitment. You will be travelling back and forth for a total of at least 20 hours with the fastest available connections, which depart only once per day. If you cannot make the departure time, all other connections need closer to 15 hours each way so you would be sitting in a train for 30 hours in total.

For comparison, flying from London to Berlin by plane takes around 3 hours, which includes the 2 hour flight and around an hour for security checks. If someone was short of time because of either work or personal commitments, It is completely feasible to fly to Germany, record an interview, do a bit of sightseeing and then fly back to the United Kingdom all on the same day, which would be impossible if you travelled by train.

Last edited by ASiegel on 15-May-2019 at 06:55 PM.

@bhabbott

Quote:

bhabbott wrote: Quote: BigD wrote: Until China... Unless China... Simplistic thinking will make matters worse Yes, putting it all on China is simplistic thinking that will make matters worse. China is just following the industrialization model that we developed, and it's our appetite for cheap manufactured goods that encourages them.

No, just plain wrong. China is encouraged only by money, nothing else. We are not responsible for their thirst for money, not at all.

Look around the world, see them. Who are the filthy rich people around you? Chinese, because that is their driving force, their only driving force. Money. Money. Money.

When I grew up, they frightened us small kids with the coming ice age. 10 years later the forests were dying due to acid rain. 10 years later still, the ozone hole was as large as a continent and we were all going to die. Now we only have 5 years more to live due to global warming.

Excuse me, but all these prediction made by scientists did not come true as far as I know.

Here is why: They make their living from it. The politicians on their side embrace the current global warming as it is a way to tax the ordinary people even more and give them power.

If it was as big problem they try to make it and as they say, they would severely restrict or ban cars and flights immediately. They don't. Instead they raise the tax somewhat.

Please see through it all. It is all about power and money.

That is not to say that we should not strive for protecting our environment and make conscious decisions on what we do and how we live. It is a very good idea to protect the nature and the environment.

But, please stop trying to put guilt and blame on ordinary people and try to see the driving forces in play, power and money.

@hth313

Our own way of life is to blame for unavoidable destruction of our planet.

We use automobiles instead of public transport.
We eat and wear products harvested or manufactured on the other part of the globe instead of local production.
We travel to exotic to destinations to enjoy our holidays instead of riding on cycle to the next village.

We will never change our way of life. What more, next to everyone on this planet wants to share this experience. Who cares about dying oceans? Disappearing insects? Or collapse of entire food chains? We will find 1000+1 excuses why change is not needed.

You are right, it is all about power and money. Our own power and money.

@bhabbott

Quote:

bhabbott wrote: Quote: BigD wrote: Until China... Unless China... Simplistic thinking will make matters worse Yes, putting it all on China is simplistic thinking that will make matters worse. China is just following the industrialization model that we developed, and it's our appetite for cheap manufactured goods that encourages them.

[/quote]

You do know that until the the last few years, China tanked the global economy for a decade with buying up a majority of the steel, concrete, and asphalt to build massive highways, cities and malls that mostly go unused. Workers were moving from rural areas to cities to perceived better jobs. The Chinese government encouraged this, tanking the global economy and their own agriculture industry in the process. Not to mention the massive ecological damage they did to their own lands with no laws to safeguard this. The large decline in agriculture spurned vast amounts of desertification in Western China. Their government needs to learn to better manage the very large population or let it regulate itself.
China is an economic powerhouse due to its population size that is on the verge of greatness or disaster

Wonder where the mods are. This should all be moved

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@ASiegel

The modern "Ablasshandel" for flying is known to me. The system is faulty though. It's a bit of a small scale certificate trade. For example with the ammounts paid, some open wood cooking stoves get replaced with gas driven cookers in some lower developed countries. Indeed this reduces CO2 emmissions locally, but that reduction does not remove the foot print of the actual flight. It's better than nothing, but it's not as good as the marketing tries to tell us.

Thing is: For a sustainable way of living we must say good bye to some habits, for example to the habbit that a trip from London to Berlin is a 3hrs thing. I left that monkey business a few years ago and invite others to do so as well.

And for flying/travelling: If more ppl would avoid planes, trains may become more attractive again. For example reintroduction of night trains/sleeper cars (unfortunately the DB left that business). Unfortunately the DB was also not able to finalize their plan for the ICE connection from London to Cologne/(Frankfurt)/(Berlin).

Still: Why not doing the interview by skype or - even better - on IRC as community Q/A session?

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My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@Zylesea

Why do you think an interview over skype is better.

The internet is a great thing but people seem to shy away from face to face meetings.

No, I will stick to the way I am doing this and do it properly, not hiding behind a computer screen, this way I will get things done.

Steve

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Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: @Zylesea Why do you think an interview over skype is better.

Simple: Saving money and resources.

I prefer a community chat though.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@hth313

Quote:

When I grew up, they frightened us small kids with the coming ice age. 10 years later the forests were dying due to acid rain. 10 years later still, the ozone hole was as large as a continent and we were all going to die.

There was one more: The Population Bomb, which was supposed to cause world-wide famine. I can't remember if that came before or after the Ice Age.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@Argo

Quote:

by Argo on 14-May-2019 21:29:25 @Snorg AKA, AmigaOS is then dead unless Hyperion pass the source code on or C-A Acquisitions restarted development from square one

AmigaOS (classic and NG) have been dead for years. Classic AmigaOS died 2 decades ago and even the version being sold by Hyperion is still OS3.1 with some bug fixes. OS4 hasn't had any core changes since it was released around 2003 and won't see any further development as long as it remains under Hyperion's thumb.

If either were alive, OS4 would have the changes that were promised well over a decade ago, such as 64-bit addressing, SMP, multi-user security, a modern web browser, etc...and we'd have many OS4 features back-ported to run on 68K systems.

If either were alive, the proof would be Amiga specific apps sold in retail stores, something that hasn't been seen in at least 2 decades.