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Snorg 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 16-May-2019 5:54:01
#41 ]
Member
Joined: 1-Feb-2018
Posts: 87
From: Unknown

@hth313
@pavlor

Some of my best friends were from China. None of them were politicians or bankers. Like most of us, they were just working for a better tomorrow. As long as we point fingers at one another, the problems - to the extent they are real (and reality is grim, for any number of reasons other than AGW) - will get worse.

What can I tell you? Be responsible and encourage others to be so as well by your example. Leadership that says one thing and does another is not to be trusted (right?!). In principle, government could be a vehicle for positive change but, once again, increasingly, it seems to view humanity as a problem in need of fixing instead of fixing the problems for (all of) humanity. This is a moral problem more than a technical one.

--

Regarding AOS, I'm having to - out of anger - expend some effort not to dismiss certain actors outright. Right now, as far as I'm concerned, Hyperion had their chance and they showed themselves to be untrustworthy. I'm not unmoved by the problems they've faced, but they have been belligerent from (almost) the very start. They had multiple opportunities to demonstrate good faith and did not.

One possibility would be for Hyperion OS simply to be auctioned off, but I suspect it contains little of significance that does not already exist in comparable form in AROS or MorphOS. Folks who have laboured (apart from Hyperion) to craft applications and features might just find greener pastures if they break free from the status quo.

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bison 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 16-May-2019 15:08:48
#42 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1295
From: N-Space

@ferrels

Quote:
AmigaOS (classic and NG) have been dead for years.

It's not dead. Its lack of development is entirely due to it being tired and shagged out after a long squawk.

What is known to us all: It's very unlikely that AmigaOS will ever regain its status as a mainstream OS, but it still has value as a niche OS for hobbyists. Having an obsolete computer as a hobby doesn't seem any worse than collecting postage stamps that are no long valid postage, or butterflies that will never fly again. It just costs more.

Last edited by bison on 16-May-2019 at 03:22 PM.

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BSzili 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 16-May-2019 15:26:16
#43 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 310
From: Unknown

@bison

It has a larger carbon footprint than stamp collection though.

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ferrels 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 16-May-2019 19:12:37
#44 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 773
From: Arizona

@bison

Quote:
It's not dead. Its lack of development is entirely due to it being tired and shagged out after a long squawk. What is known to us all: It's very unlikely that AmigaOS will ever regain its status as a mainstream OS, but it still has value as a niche OS for hobbyists. Having an obsolete computer as a hobby doesn't seem any worse than collecting postage stamps that are no long valid postage, or butterflies that will never fly again. It just costs more. Last edited by bison on 16-May-2019 at 08:22 AM.



I can assure you that they're both very dead, which is why they're nothing but curiosities for hobbyists. If they were alive, they'd be used in corporate environments, they'd be actively developed, and they could be purchased thru retailers instead of being hocked by the likes of Hyperion and hobby shops such as AmigaKit. OS4 hasn't run on a modern processor since its inception and even the latest X5000 CPU is generations behind anything considered modern. And clinging to the belief that either OS could ever become mainstream once again is ludicrous. They were never mainstream OS's to begin with. Current OS offerings such as Linux and Windows have a 30+ year lead in terms of features and development and no matter how much money is thrown at OS3/OS4 development, they will never catch up. There is also no way to convince current consumers and corporations to convert to OS3/OS4 even if they did manage to catch up. So you think it's feasible for consumers and companies to just throw out their x86 hardware and software investments and go with OS3/OS4? Oh, please! You'd be laughed out of the room if you brought this topic up at any business meeting.

If it was simply a matter of money then why haven't many of the world's most dreaded diseases been vanquished after sinking billions into research? Money does not solve problems or find solutions and it won't bring OS3/OS4 back to store shelves.

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bison 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 16-May-2019 20:17:37
#45 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1295
From: N-Space

@ferrels

Quote:
So you think it's feasible for consumers and companies to just throw out their x86 hardware and software investments and go with OS3/OS4? Oh, please! You'd be laughed out of the room if you brought this topic up at any business meeting.

I get the impression that you didn't actually read my post.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 16-May-2019 20:45:09
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11015
From: Norway

@ferrels

Well I think look back to 70's big companies used mainframes, big computers running multi user operating systems including UNIX. While that happened smaller companies replaced typewriters with PC systems running MSDOS, and then people wanted to work from home, and write stuff and bring it to work, so PC becomes popular in home, and kids won't play games on this computers, as PC was modular and Amiga was not so much, there was completion to make best sound card. In addition, best graphic card. Commodore stagnated AGA small upgrade over OCS/ECS but can't compete with VGA and SVGA graphics on PC. Amiga failed to get into professional market due to toy status. While Mac somehow managed to stay alive, takes to adobe products and some professional software companies, writing software to make newspapers, and publications.

So yes your correct I think. but it was bad OS compared to MacOS or MSDOS/Win3.1, sure there where many things AmigaOS can't do like virtualization, swap and it failed to provide professional file sharing service. unlike MacOS that did have AppleTalk and Windows that did have Novell Networks.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-May-2019 at 08:46 PM.

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ferrels 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 16-May-2019 22:43:44
#47 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 773
From: Arizona

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Well I think look back to 70's big companies used mainframes, big computers running multi user operating systems including UNIX. While that happened smaller companies replaced typewriters with PC systems running MSDOS, and then people wanted to work from home, and write stuff and bring it to work, so PC becomes popular in home, and kids won't play games on this computers, as PC was modular and Amiga was not so much, there was completion to make best sound card. In addition, best graphic card. Commodore stagnated AGA small upgrade over OCS/ECS but can't compete with VGA and SVGA graphics on PC. Amiga failed to get into professional market due to toy status. While Mac somehow managed to stay alive, takes to adobe products and some professional software companies, writing software to make newspapers, and publications. So yes your correct I think. but it was bad OS compared to MacOS or MSDOS/Win3.1, sure there where many things AmigaOS can't do like virtualization, swap and it failed to provide professional file sharing service. unlike MacOS that did have AppleTalk and Windows that did have Novell Networks.


Yes, AmigaOS was superior to the other operating systems of its day, no one is arguing that, but that day came and went. It's the same problem that Sony encountered in the VHS versus BetaMax wars. Sony's technology was clearly superior but VHS won the war for several reasons. One, most consumers were just fine with a picture of lesser quality if the price was substantially lower. Two, Sony stopped improving BetaMax and VHS continued to be improved upon. A gap of 30+ years is insurmountable in terms of updating OS3/OS4 AND getting anyone to buy it. Too much water under the bridge.

Back in the day, most corporations were just fine with 8086 systems running MS-DOS and consumers wanted a home system that was compatible with their systems at work. So MS-DOS and later Windows-based systems became the defacto home standard. MS-DOS and early versions of Windows clearly weren't superior to AmigaOS, but that didn't matter. What mattered was what people wanted and what they were willing to pay for. Technical superiority took a back seat.

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BigD 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 17-May-2019 0:21:37
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4825
From: UK

@ferrels

I totally disagree with you. You're perspective is 100% USA centric and does not ring true for the UK and European markets. The PC was not viewed as the wonder home machine here and 'Home Computing' was an actual profitable market prior to the IBM PC.

PC's NEVER became passable consumer devices in the same way the Amiga was from day one. As it turned out it didn't matter in the long run because Smart Phones and Tablets eventually usurped the depressingly sub par desktop experience offered by Windows for the general consumer user.

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ne_one 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 17-May-2019 2:09:10
#49 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 857
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:
Money does not solve problems or find solutions and it won't bring OS3/OS4 back to store shelves.


And of course store shelves are a little outmoded when it comes to software.

The mainstream relevance argument has always been inane. It is clearly possible to have a thriving niche business within a massive industry.

The problem has always been the people in charge of the branding and the IP. They have demonstrated an unparalleled level of monumental ineptitude and negligence.

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megol 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 17-May-2019 12:08:35
#50 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 288
From: Unknown

@ne_one
IMO the situation is well described by: "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven".

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g01df1sh 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 17-May-2019 12:41:31
#51 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1643
From: UK

@megol

Things can change in the world of I.T look how Nokia made a mess of it by not evolving its products once the iPhone came along Nokia had nothing to compete with it in time. Same happened with Amiga but thats not to say some other company could come up with something revolutionary out of blue and take Apple by surprise. After all apple is starting to get boring now with no outstanding new innovating products. Even windows is getting boring now with no new great features with every new feature update Microsoft release I have yet to find anything useful in them. Windows 10 for me can do no more than windows xp / 7 did.

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ferrels 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 17-May-2019 22:28:55
#52 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 773
From: Arizona

@BigD

Quote:
I totally disagree with you. You're perspective is 100% USA centric and does not ring true for the UK and European markets. The PC was not viewed as the wonder home machine here and 'Home Computing' was an actual profitable market prior to the IBM PC. PC's NEVER became passable consumer devices in the same way the Amiga was from day one. As it turned out it didn't matter in the long run because Smart Phones and Tablets eventually usurped the depressingly sub par desktop experience offered by Windows for the general consumer user.


Where do you get off making the assumption that my perspective is 100% USA centric? I happen to be a German national and spent a significant portion of my life living and working in Germany. I was living and working in a small town called Germersheim at the height of the Amiga's popularity and also during it's decline into the mid-90's. The Amiga declined in Germany for the very same reasons that it failed elsewhere. The OS and the hardware fell behind PC offerings and people wanted a system that was more than just a games platform. PC prices also continued to drop and hardware capabilities continued to increase. This didn't happen for the Amiga. The Amiga's decline in Germany was a bit slower and dragged on for a few more years than it did elsewhere because there were so many Amiga hardware and software developers located there. Even if Commodore hadn't folded in 1992, the Amiga was doomed due to Commodore's mismanagement and because the Amiga had by then already lost any pricing and technological lead that it held previously.

Last edited by ferrels on 17-May-2019 at 11:49 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 17-May-2019 at 10:38 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 18-May-2019 8:42:13
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4825
From: UK

@ferrels

Quote:
The OS and the hardware fell behind PC offerings and people wanted a system that was more than just a games platform.


That's the bit I disagree on. The people I know that thought the PC was more advanced in 1994/95 and that the Amiga was JUST a games machine were still playing Mortal Kombat on their PeeCee using a flight stick The Amiga was just as productive as the PC in peoples homes if not more so. PCs in the 90s were being shipped with Microsoft Works which was next to useless. We had TurboPrint, PageStream, FinalWriter, DrawStudio Wordsworth etc and they produced better results than my PC owning friends.

Maybe you are talking about consumer perception but the PC didn't really full catch up until Windows XP so only really fell behind in (ironically) GAMES!

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K-L 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 18-May-2019 8:51:48
#54 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1294
From: Oullins, France

@Thread

Are all those posts the questions that must be asked ?

Last edited by K-L on 18-May-2019 at 08:52 AM.

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bison 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 18-May-2019 15:49:12
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1295
From: N-Space

@K-L

Well, here's the problem: all the questions are going directly to Steve, which is fine, but since the questions are not known, there's nothing relevant to discuss, and as a result the thread is almost completely off-topic.

My questions (already submitted) are:

1. What are the prospects of porting AmigaOS 4.x to the Raspberry Pi?

2. What are the prospects of porting MorphOS to the Raspberry Pi?


Last edited by bison on 18-May-2019 at 03:51 PM.

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OneTimer1 
OT Remark
Posted on 18-May-2019 20:55:44
#56 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 446
From: Unknown

@clusteruk

Please take this off topic remark only as a remark.

But your avatar remembers me to some one from "Goth Goose of the Week"

https://web.archive.org/web/20040414024439/http://www.gothgoose.net/gregg.htm

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OlafS25 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 19-May-2019 13:56:41
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5456
From: Unknown

@bison

I know the answer

no and no ;)

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_Steve_ 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 19-May-2019 17:21:21
#58 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Oct-2002
Posts: 6737
From: UK

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@ferrels

Quote:
The OS and the hardware fell behind PC offerings and people wanted a system that was more than just a games platform.


That's the bit I disagree on. The people I know that thought the PC was more advanced in 1994/95 and that the Amiga was JUST a games machine were still playing Mortal Kombat on their PeeCee using a flight stick The Amiga was just as productive as the PC in peoples homes if not more so. PCs in the 90s were being shipped with Microsoft Works which was next to useless. We had TurboPrint, PageStream, FinalWriter, DrawStudio Wordsworth etc and they produced better results than my PC owning friends.

Maybe you are talking about consumer perception but the PC didn't really full catch up until Windows XP so only really fell behind in (ironically) GAMES!


I would have to disagree there. The PC already had a foothold by 1993/4. At uni, most of the machines were either Mac's of various models, or IBM PCs (we had two labs, one dominated by the macs which a majority of my coursework was done with, and the PC lab (which a bunch of us appropriated to play LAN sessions of Doom on amongst other things).

The launch of Windows 95 (while not the best OS by a long shot), was significantly better than Win 3.x and began to make PCs more user friendly without the headaches of playing with autoexec.bat scripts, running XMS/EMM386 tools and worrying about IRQ conflicts with every new card you bought.

The Amiga had good productivity software, but was being supplanted by the same software appearing on Windows - and with the faster CPU speeds and graphics cards found in them, they were already gaining bigger market shares here. Yes we had WordWorth (v7 at the time) and FinalWriter 97, but these were still inferior to the MS Office packages of the day (allowing for the hassle that was Microsoft's proprietary document formats).

We had Turboprint because there simply weren't Amiga printer drivers that supported the current printers on the market at the time. The PC has no such need as the manufacturers already made drivers to support Windows.

Most software houses even by 1993 had stopped or reduced their endeavours in the Amiga markets simply because the PC market had expanded significantly whilst mismanagement in the US for Commodore had wrecked their standing. The "must have" games were all being developed for the PC due to the graphics cards higher screen resolutions and performance over the greater Amiga markets, which were typically stock machines with perhaps a faster CPU and some additional RAM.

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JimIgou 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 19-May-2019 22:05:17
#59 ]
Member
Joined: 30-May-2018
Posts: 97
From: Unknown

@BSzili

Quote:
Funny, isn't it? This is an epic derail of the thread for two flights.


And then you throw in Ferrels' persistant "They aren't commercially viable OS' " comments and it just gets funnier.

I'd like to know who the representatives are from each organization.
The MorphOS team has members living in Canada, South Africa, and all over Europe.
Not an easy trek.
OS4 development...a little more centralized, but which of the many developers might be counted on visiting for an interview?

And the likelyhood that both groups will be interviewed at the same time?

Steve DOES have a point about hardware though. I'm typing this on a i5 based laptop with an SSD.
PPC are dying, and while I really like Power 9, there are no low draw Power 9 cpus suited to devices like laptops.

Sent my one question in via email. I'm curious if MorphOS or its X64 fork will eventually be upgraded to a more advanced version of OpenGL.

Oh, and Steve, BetaMax was improved, you don't remember SuperBetaMax or Extended Definition BetaMax? Until DVDs came out, they definately had an edge over VHS and standard BetaMax units.

Last edited by JimIgou on 19-May-2019 at 10:26 PM.
Last edited by JimIgou on 19-May-2019 at 10:15 PM.
Last edited by JimIgou on 19-May-2019 at 10:12 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Interviews with Hyperion and MorphOS teams coming so get your questions in
Posted on 19-May-2019 23:48:55
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4825
From: UK

@_Steve_

Quote:
The PC already had a foothold by 1993/4.


That was true in terms of market share and networking ability in higher education and the work space but there was simply no reason for C= to have lost the home computing market so easily. As I say most PeeCees sold in the mid 90s were appalling with MS Works installed etc and an Amiga produced far better results and was easier to use than Windows 95. Even me attempting Amiga-like multi-tasking usage on my house mate's PC at Uni in 2003 destroyed his Windows 95 system and the hard drive was not salvagable. I simply tried to run a few programs at the same time and it never recovered! They were buggy slow monstrousities compared to an equivalent Amiga!

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