Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5654 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
47 crawler(s) on-line.
 17 guest(s) on-line.
 2 member(s) on-line.


 _ThEcRoW,  Samurai

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 _ThEcRoW:  16 secs ago
 Samurai:  43 secs ago
 Hypex:  27 mins ago
 ekam:  27 mins ago
 BSzili:  34 mins ago
 Rob:  34 mins ago
 vox:  54 mins ago
 amipal:  1 hr 1 min ago
 kamelito:  1 hr 36 mins ago
 dreamlandfantasy:  1 hr 41 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  PPC Open Source Questions
Register To Post

PosterThread
DFergFLA 
PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 26-Aug-2019 17:51:35
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 26-Jun-2015
Posts: 22
From: Unknown

OK, so I am curious about somethings. I have tried to see if I could find some kind of answers online but can't.

1 - OK, so PPC has its ISA opened. What does that exactly do for us? Does it decrease the cost of PPC chips in any significant way? I know it means that anyone can now produce a PPC compatible processor without paying fees. But, does that have any major impact on the end cost?

2 - Emulation - Now I realize this is a stretch and I wasn't going to even ask. But, I want to know.. does the ISA being open now have any benefit to those writing PPC emulators?

Thanks

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 26-Aug-2019 18:06:48
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11094
From: Norway

@DFergFLA

Quote:
1 - OK, so PPC has its ISA opened. What does that exactly do for us? Does it decrease the cost of PPC chips in any significant way? I know it means that anyone can now produce a PPC compatible processor without paying fees. But, does that have any major impact on the end cost?


No, I think most of the cost is due to designing the motherboard, writing drivers, if they did not replace all ethernet, sound, sata and so on chips every time they made new motherboard, can cut time to market, and costs. and if they did not pick CPU's with strange FPU instruction sets. They make it harder than it needs to be, and this way its so expensive.

Quote:
2 - Emulation - Now I realize this is a stretch and I wasn't going to even ask. But, I want to know.. does the ISA being open now have any benefit to those writing PPC emulators?


Well no, a perfect software emulator will be slower then current emulators, have look here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWqBmmPQP40

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Aug-2019 at 06:35 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Aug-2019 at 06:13 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Aug-2019 at 06:12 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Aug-2019 at 06:11 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Aug-2019 at 06:08 PM.

_________________
Please check out my software:
Excalibur, Basilisk 2, AmigaInputAnywhere.
LiveForIt-Music
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DFergFLA 
Re: PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 26-Aug-2019 18:10:32
#3 ]
Member
Joined: 26-Jun-2015
Posts: 22
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Thanks, that is kind of what I thought. It's nice it's open now. But, I don't think this is going to do the Amiga community much good.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
billt 
Re: PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 26-Aug-2019 19:48:48
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3104
From: Maryland, USA

@DFergFLA

Is "open-source" the correct term? It is still governed by a committee, but IBM is no longer the dominant decider. It is now royalty-free, which I think is the more important detail, but doesn't make it open-source...

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
billt 
Re: PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 26-Aug-2019 19:56:06
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3104
From: Maryland, USA


Quote:
I know it means that anyone can now produce a PPC compatible processor without paying fees. But, does that have any major impact on the end cost?


So, what had the royalty fee been?

Now, compare that fee to the cost of developing such a chip. The EDA tools are tremendously expensive. A competent engineering team costs some cash too. How long do you pay that team's salary to get to a chip tapeout?? What technology are you going to manufacture it in? Some technologies are more expensive than others. Some are tremendously expensive. You are talking millions to many millions just for masks in some technologies, and you haven't even got to the manufacturer yet.

So you might be spending 10's of millions of dollars or hundreds of millions of dollars, without considering the royalty fee, to make an SoC processor chip like we see from NXP or IBM's Power9. CellPhone part providers can afford to be on the higher end of that cost scale, since they sell several millions of units. NXP and Power9 are probably lower on the total cost scale, as they do not sell millions and millions of units, and are thus in less expensive fab technologies.

But for those that want to try and make something like a minimig-PPC, whatever the fee had been was likely too high to proceed. Now, it's at least financially possible, even if it would be a poor performer compared to an X1000 or X5000 or Blackbird or a CSPPC.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 26-Aug-2019 21:12:24
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1372
From: N-Space

@DFergFLA

Quote:
But, I don't think this is going to do the Amiga community much good.

Probably not directly, but perhaps indirectly. Someone may produce a new CPU or SoC as a result of this that could be used in an Amiga that is superior to what is currently available (not a high bar).

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ne_one 
Re: PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 27-Aug-2019 1:10:06
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 868
From: Unknown

@bison

There are already lots of high performance, low cost options available. This move is an epitaph for a technology that long passed its best before date.

The problem is the software.

But the bigger problem is the fact that the yardstick for completely bollocksing up a platform migration rests with Hyperion and now no one would dare refactor a 35 year old OS.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 27-Aug-2019 17:31:55
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1372
From: N-Space

@ne_one

Quote:
There are already lots of high performance, low cost options available.


Then one wonders how the A1222 ended up with the P1022.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rose 
Re: PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 27-Aug-2019 20:26:25
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 603
From: Unknown

@bison

Quote:

bison wrote:
@ne_one

Quote:
There are already lots of high performance, low cost options available.


Then one wonders how the A1222 ended up with the P1022.


Because using T1020 would have made too much sense being compatible and cheaper.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
WolfToTheMoon 
Re: PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 28-Aug-2019 10:54:20
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1288
From: CRO

@bison

I suspect it has something to do with Servergy, the now defunct company that defrauded it's investors and which had plans for mini servers based on P1022. When they failed I'm guessing there might have been a few of those CPUs around at a cheap price.

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rose 
Re: PPC Open Source Questions
Posted on 28-Aug-2019 12:43:22
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 603
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote:
@bison

I suspect it has something to do with Servergy, the now defunct company that defrauded it's investors and which had plans for mini servers based on P1022. When they failed I'm guessing there might have been a few of those CPUs around at a cheap price.


Their servers were supposed to have P4080. P1022 was supposed to be on their SBC which was only shown as render.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle