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      /  Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
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PosterThread
ferrels 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 16-Sep-2019 7:51:54
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@kolla

Quote:
That's correct. Anyone can download cores from https://apollo-accelerators.com, and with the right skills and/or tools, extract the kickstarts.


And if they have the right skills and/or tools and have an issue with it being on there, they can also delete it.

I've extracted my own kickstarts from my A1200, my A2000's and from my Amiga Forever CD and shared the ROMS with various people. So which party would you have sue me for infringement, Hyperion, Cloanto, Amiga Inc., or you? Or should I just send you a check since you seem to be the self-appointed kickstart police-force and Vampire troll.

Even Cloanto's claim to the 68K Amiga IP is tenuous at best and it would be unwise to purchase any copies of OS3.1.x or kickstarts from any of the aforementioned parties until the courts pass judgement.

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kolla 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 16-Sep-2019 19:22:26
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ferrels

You can check your spelling.

My point was simple - anyone can go to the apollo-accelerators.com site and download cores that contain kickstarts. I am all for and everyone should be allowed to distribute modified kickstarts (and OS) freely, not just the apollo team.

Now you can send me a cheque.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 16-Sep-2019 20:49:32
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2320
From: Minnesota, USA

Re:Vampire cores

The cores downloadable from the Apollo website only contain FPGA cores. The Kickstart 3.1 images are in a separate Flash memory from the FPGA cores.

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kolla 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 17-Sep-2019 4:17:34
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Samurai_Crow

Are you sure? Because the kickstart apparently changed as I reflashed new cores, sometimes claiming to be 3.10 and sometimes 3.1. Perhaps only change of exec.library?

Last edited by kolla on 17-Sep-2019 at 04:18 AM.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 17-Sep-2019 4:25:25
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2320
From: Minnesota, USA

@kolla

It applies a patch at startup to preserve the AMMX registers during a task swap.

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kolla 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 17-Sep-2019 5:01:38
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Samurai_Crow

Quote:

It applies a patch at startup to preserve the AMMX registers during a task swap.


And all the things that vanish if you flash a "non-vampire" kickstart, like bootpicture, sound etc? From various discussions, I really had the impression that these came with a compressed kickstart that comes with the core. Well, this is easy enough to verify by flashing and dumping.

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Hypex 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 17-Sep-2019 6:53:34
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kolla

Not to labour the point again, but aside from Kickstart the Vampire has at least two other issues with the Coffin OS:

1. The HDF image for an SD card includes an RDB. Amiga HDF images are not transparent like on other OS. They are tied to the disk brand and model. Write the image to a disk of another brand and model and technically it becomes a corrupt RDB. I don't know if there are tools to install a new RDB without trashing the partitions.

2. It includes a Workbench. Which means it includes a pirated Workbench image. I can see this is convenient.

Doing it the proper way would be harder. And more annoying for the user. There are Workbench distros that require you to provide a Workbench disk or disc in order to install it. They could do it this way. But it would require more work. Installing the SD in HDToolbox. Partitioning it. Installing via Workbench then patching it. Could also provide a tool for fast partitioning.

Then again. Shouldn't this be done on the Vampire? Who wants to use a PC when they can use their Amiga to install the OS? Or even, insert stick with update, run updater and done. That's how firmware updates used to be done, on the machine itself, from disk.

Using AROS is a good idea even if it's different to the real thing, since it has an open source model, and they can internally optimise it. Calling it CoffinOS could also be detrimental as a buried OS is a dead OS. AROS is the way!

Last edited by Hypex on 17-Sep-2019 at 06:57 AM.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 17-Sep-2019 7:12:39
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2320
From: Minnesota, USA

@kolla

The extended ROM is developed by the Apollo team but the Kickstart is licensed from Cloanto.

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kolla 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 17-Sep-2019 9:06:08
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Samurai_Crow

So why do apollo specific ROM items "vanish" when flashing for example 3.1.4 kickstart?
How do one flash back to "factory setting" kickstart?

Last edited by kolla on 17-Sep-2019 at 09:07 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 17-Sep-2019 at 09:07 AM.

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number6 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 17-Sep-2019 15:41:01
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@thread

I find the conversation between Gunnar and Thomas on A1k quite interesting.

At least I have a better understanding of how they both stand.

#6

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 17-Sep-2019 20:09:36
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2320
From: Minnesota, USA

@kolla

The "factory original" ROM in the Apollo flash memory is an A1200 ROM for the future AGA support. Also, you cannot reset the 68080 to "factory original" setting of a 14 MHz 68EC020 that the A1200 ROM expects in an A500.

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OlafS25 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 18-Sep-2019 6:21:10
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@kolla

this is a thread about Aros 68k

always when I look inside there is only discussions how bad Gunnar and the Apollo team are or that a MMU is not there

If you want to discuss that make your own thread and discuss it there if you find people that want to discuss it with you

It starts to nerve

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OlafS25 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 18-Sep-2019 6:24:43
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Hypex

coffin is highly illegal

there is not only 3.9 illegal included and files from 3.1 without permission, there is also lots of software there that is illegal to include. I read some time ago Cinema4D from Maxon, it is illegal. I know that because I was in contact with Maxon to get a permission for Aros Vision.

So we do not need to talk about legality of Coffin

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kolla 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 18-Sep-2019 15:25:06
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@OlafS25

Quote:

always when I look inside there is only discussions how bad Gunnar and the Apollo team are or that a MMU is not there


Neither of those topics have been discussed here...

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ferrels 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 19-Sep-2019 5:01:14
#35 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 922
From: Arizona

@kolla

Quote:
You can check your spelling. Now you can send me a cheque.


The check is in the mail. Make sure you hold your breath while waiting for it to arrive. Oh, and you can check YOUR spelling, pun intended. I speak and spell in US English. The US ditched the French/UK spellings of colour and cheque long ago.

And since you're so worried about it, you can us this for further reference when checking my spelling: http://www.tysto.com/uk-us-spelling-list.html

Last edited by ferrels on 19-Sep-2019 at 05:13 AM.
Last edited by ferrels on 19-Sep-2019 at 05:05 AM.
Last edited by ferrels on 19-Sep-2019 at 05:03 AM.

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kolla 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 19-Sep-2019 11:58:34
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

Regarding Coffin - the distribution touted to not be, in any shape or form, "official" - "The icons were drawn by the Vampire Team. And are free to use with any Vampire project."

So that is why production is dragging out, they have all been busy drawing icons for Coffin - "officially".

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 21-Sep-2019 6:12:12
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@OlafS25

It's also whery strange to call it "Coffin" if you like to sell stuff you normally call it newest thing on the block and talk about all the improved stuff.

Who outside this community are willing to buy toy hardware that do not do 3D, where the OS is outdated? (I'm not a fan of integrated graphic cards, maybe peaple outside this community are not too, it be smart to be able to plugin something into a PCIe slot, as a option.)

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Sep-2019 at 07:47 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Sep-2019 at 06:26 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Sep-2019 at 06:14 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Sep-2019 at 06:12 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 21-Sep-2019 12:40:16
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
It's also whery strange to call it "Coffin" if you like to sell stuff you normally call it newest thing on the block and talk about all the improved stuff.


It's strange but suitable for our culture. What was once called "cool" is now called "sick". I suppose the hip hop variation was "dope". There tends to be a move towards negative or disgusting terms to describe what's popular or awesome in some way. Cool is cold, dope is stupid, and sick is vomiting.

Coffin? Well, it would be aimed mostly at guys in their mid life, so perhaps the negative connotations could be a bit early.

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Snorg 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 21-Sep-2019 14:56:22
#39 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Feb-2018
Posts: 117
From: Unknown

@Hypex, @NutsAboutAmiga

'Coffin' ... the 'environment' for the Vampire ...

Not to dispute what you say, mind you but, sometimes if it walks like a duck ...

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kolla 
Re: Apollo Team commitment to AROS 68k development
Posted on 22-Sep-2019 7:25:11
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ferrels

I know it must be very upsetting for you to now see Gunnar of late changing his views a little regarding the "usefulnes" of Linux and BSD kernels on Apollo Core. Who knows, before you know it, he and I are buddies, working together on a small Linux distro for Apollo Core systems, while you find yourself as the "hater" with "possibly psychological problems" :)

Personally I would love to see AROS/hosted on m68k, with a slim un*x kernel underneath. I have previously attempted to get AROS/hosted running on DragonFLyBSD (the obvious choice due to its historic Amiga connection), but it would probably make more sense with NetBSD (or Linux). I don't see any reason why AROS should not be able to display directly on fbdev (which btw was invented on Linux/m68k) instead of going through x11/xorg, but maybe certain xorg components are used for 3D and stuff (which I typically don't care much about).

The largest benefit from enabling Linux and BSDs on AC68080 is that it could attract developers from the Linux and BSD camps - kernel developers are very often also the same people who contribute to development of compilers and core libraries like libc, as these are components that are highly tied together. You can say all you like that "serious developers use cross compilers", and that is fair enough, but without environments to properly test those cross compilers, there won't be much cross compilers to talk about. This is where the AC68080 on a system like V4 can, and should, fit in.

Last edited by kolla on 22-Sep-2019 at 07:45 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 22-Sep-2019 at 07:44 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 22-Sep-2019 at 07:43 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 22-Sep-2019 at 07:33 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 22-Sep-2019 at 07:33 AM.

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