@kolla

I dont really see Gunnar change his mind regarding any part of development of the Core or software/OS platform.

It "just" requires manhours/power to do, and unless "someone" steps up, its just one of Vojin wet dreams he keeps adding without getting to terms with the fact that someone actually has to do the developing.

Gunnar and the team have always said that they would help/guide people that had concrete plans and the intent of actually putting said work in. But for most its limited to xx pages of dreams, without any effort made.

@kolla

Quote:

serious developers use cross compilers

I think that will depend on size of project if that’s efficient or not, I guess if take 30 min to compile 68080 you take 1 sec on AMD Razon, it clearly it be more efficient copy the compiled binary to the Amiga.

But if take 2 sec to compile on AmigaONE-X1000, and 1 sec to compile on AMD Razon, it take more time to copy the files over, then it takes to cross compile it, sure it's a good idea to have at least parts of project compiled and tested on other operating system (Linux, Windows, MacOSX). Just to find bugs AmigaOS *.* / AROS / MorphOS can't find.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@Overflow

So what happened when Matthew Garrett contacted them regarding Linux on Apollo Core?

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

Good question. Do you know? (and Im not asking this in a dissmissive tone btw)

Last edited by Overflow on 22-Sep-2019 at 11:40 AM.

@Overflow

If I knew, I wouldn't have asked, so no.. I don't know. But considering that it was almost two years ago, it looks like nothing happened.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@Overflow

Quote:

Gunnar and the team have always said that they would help/guide people that had concrete plans and the intent of actually putting said work in. But for most its limited to xx pages of dreams, without any effort made.

That attitude is far too demotivating and would have rendered the FPU into the same dustbin. At one time it too was dismissed outright and today it's a standout.

Vojin may sometimes be misguided but he's contributed endless enthusiasm that has surely translated into sales. Being a fanboy is a pretty thankless task.

What's more troubling is this sanctimonious attitude of some people that "we know what's best and if you want to convince us otherwise, submit a business plan, proposed architecture and functional decomposition."

Really? Pfft!

Like many other people, Vojin simply wants this platform to keep evolving. Somehow. Some way.

At one time it was the dreams of the users being shouted from the rooftops that we encouraged. And they motivated us. Now it's this dismissive, smug, "hobbyist" stance that offers a resounding "no" to everything.

God forbid someone actually shows some enthusiasm.

@ne_one

I dont actually condemn Vojin for his suggestions or enthusiasm.

I just want to highlight that the Apollo Team are mere mortals. And there are only SO many hours in a day, and only so much money available to be allocated etc.
I assume they have to actually show up for their "real" jobs too, in additions to be family people.

So if people want the process to speed up, they have to be willing to undertake development process themselves.
Ofcourse, I have said, as a non developing enduser, that what I mainly use computers for are Spreadsheets, Text editors, emails and video editing.
But I realise that getting access to newer versions of said software requires a mammoth development undertaking.

Last edited by Overflow on 22-Sep-2019 at 07:46 PM.

@kolla

what sense would it make to run linux or unix on a FPGA with faster and cheaper hardware available. And I do not see that this would really attract developers

@NutsAboutAmiga

Of course it is mainly interesting for amiga fans or people who at least remember amiga from youth. Most people use the devices just to use the preferred apps and for web browsing.

And outdated OS is true for anything related to amiga today, including all NG options. To be uptodate you would need new toolkits for applications to support all sort of devices, modernization to the OS like multi processor support, 64bit, memory protection that breaks software just to name a few. And you would need modern development environments with modern class libraries. just a few ideas that come to my mind...

Last edited by OlafS25 on 22-Sep-2019 at 09:02 PM.

@thread

Apologies in advance if this has been stated prior or elsewhere.

Although AROS being supported was discussed here, this may be the 1st time it was stated by Gunnar directly today:

Quote:

We ship with AROS.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

A case of «it compiles, it boots - ship it!» :)

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

no, they actually iron or help to iron out the bugs. there have been fixes commited by kalamatee with gunnars support these days. you might check on aros-development team repo. other members of apollo team and our slack channel report os3.1 workbench works with aros ks to an extent. there are bugs buti havnt even expected that.

so yes, there is a constructive exchange between apollo team and people working on aros.

@thread if the Apollo Team is serious they would be preparing an
APT-GET like update tool to maintain and preserve source files on GitHub in an organized way.

_________________
Download 499.26 Mbps, 659.94 Mbps Upload :)

@asymetrix

One thing at a time. This is a spare time project for people involved.

The good thing now is that the stand alone version is out. If everything would be perfect at once we would have to wait even longer.
I'm sure this is a good time to release and test the market.
If the Amiga people don't enbrace this effort I'm sure this is the end for any future Amiga like system. Not saying this will compete with recent platforms but it could very well be a more advanced Amiga like alternative with 16 bit sound, more advanced gfx and more up to date OS.
Some emulators already running and some ports.

Last edited by nikosidis on 26-Sep-2019 at 12:12 AM.

@kolla

kolla I admire your insight knowledge you show everywhere

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @kolla what sense would it make to run linux or unix on a FPGA with faster and cheaper hardware available. And I do not see that this would really attract developers

Why are you asking me? Ask Gunnar and Matthew Garrett, who approached the Apollo Team regarding Linux support. Maybe they are senseless.

Anyways, this is not about attracting developers in general, it is about attracting a certain niche of developers - those who develop the tools needed for development - you cannot cross-build unless there is a toolchain in place to do cross-building with. These developers need systems for testing and debugging, and they often prefer "well known" environments. Linux is one such "well known environment", and is preferred by many of those who develop open source, but it can really be many others - I have colleagues here who do such work using NetBSD. A typical common requirement for these developers, is the MMU - without an MMU, enthusiasm drops rapidly.

The big advantage of cloning the 040 MMU, is not just Linux, it opens the possibilities for a whole range of possible kernels and operating systems, for which sources are not available to rebuild/recompile.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@wawa

I am aware of al that, it is exactly why I wrote what I did. As you know, I have had my adventures with AROS/68k too on FPGA systems (though not on the Vampire as far as I can recall) and I am quite aware of how well (or not) it works to blend "real" AmigaOS components and AROS, as this is something I always did and do when using AROS/68k.

It will be interesting to see how long this constructive exchange will last considering previous constructive exchanges "the team" has been engaged in, and it will be interesting to see how AROS/68k is received when the hardware is in the hands of users. Exciting times ahead.

Last edited by kolla on 26-Sep-2019 at 12:57 PM.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

I would for sure put a statment on paper with the hardware about using AROS with Vampire and why they chose it.


Don't take everyone that buy Vampire as professional users ;)
It will be some drama.

Last edited by nikosidis on 26-Sep-2019 at 01:44 PM.