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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 12-Oct-2019 20:25:18
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

@1Mouse

Dream on. Will never happen. At least in MorphOS team things are happening. For AROS it stalled long time ago.

I always supported AROS but the project is not working. MorphOS seams like the brightest future for AMD64. Not that we seen much of it yet.

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ASiegel 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 12-Oct-2019 20:33:29
#22 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 185
From: Unknown

@1Mouse

Quote:
Now would be a great time for AROS and MorphOS to join forces, both have the same goal as far as the community is concerned


I suppose you missed some news.

There are efforts underway to port a special "big endian" version of AROS to ARM that would allow to transparently execute 68k applications.

Other developers are working on a native 68K port of AROS in an effort to replace the Cloanto Workbench 3.x operating system on Classic Amigas (or compatible systems).

Intel-compatible versions still exist, of course, but who knows how any of these different developments will work out. Only time will tell which version of AROS will attract the most users and developers.

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 12-Oct-2019 20:54:20
#23 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

@ASiegel

Mschulz ARM port seams stalled.

The 68k AROS version seams like the one that might get some attention as Vampire team supports it. At the same time it might be most for legal reasons and to release the Vamp. Stand alone. Most will flash the ROM to original Amiga OS and workbench.

Last edited by nikosidis on 12-Oct-2019 at 08:55 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 12-Oct-2019 22:24:42
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@paolone

Quote:
v0.0.0 pre-alpha




Is this the earliest release in the history of mankind?

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Argo 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 7:01:35
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 303
From: St. Lawrence Co., NY, USA

@nikosidis

How many threads is it utilizing?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 8:41:54
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11166
From: Norway

@nikosidis

I always felt like this with AROS, that kind failed to find its own identity, you can run as natively If just have the right hardware, if you don't you kind of need Linux, if you need Linux to run AROS, and all the programs are on Linux, then what do you need AROS for.

It also the issue of funding of drivers and eco system, that is lacking because who really owns it so can collect money how keep funding going for project that takes like 2 years to complete, who do you do get people to fund something they don't understand, but is required to do x,y,z.

Where is job security; For people going to keep the train running: who is doing support? who keeps the SDK up to date? and so on.

Its lot of idealism, but is it practical?

I can agree with MorphOS starting to look good, they did something I did not image possible, to run PPC32, PPC64 and X86 code on the same OS, and they have funding, and they are not in a ligal limbo.

But even they have not managed to support the latest graphic cards, and I guess this show how importent funding is to keep a the eco system like operating system up todate.

I guess the biggest argument for way going x86 was a bad idea, was that there were too many north and south bridge, graphic cards, sound cards to support, network cards, its a support nightmare to write all the drivers.


Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Oct-2019 at 09:30 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Oct-2019 at 08:51 AM.

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asymetrix 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 10:50:28
#27 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 840
From: United Kingdom

@thread

That's why there is a serious need in the Amiga community to create :

Open source Linux hardware as sales machines that can double up and be used as Amiga developer machines - for all Amiga flavours.

Want to upgrade your pc, replace the Processor on a card, SATA on a card, WIFI on a card etc.


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Kronos 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 10:53:47
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2199
From: Unknown

@Argo

1


The threat of sitting on me

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TRIPOS 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 11:25:41
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
But even they have not managed to support the latest graphic cards


Then again, nobody else in the Amiga eco system is supporting the latest graphics cards either, and no other entity is supporting more graphics cards than MorphOS does:

With 3D hardware acceleration:

ATI Radeon 8500 LE (R200)
ATI Radeon 8500 (R200)
ATI Radeon 9000 (RV250)
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro (RV250)
ATI Radeon 9100 (R200)
ATI Radeon 9100 LE (R200)
ATI Radeon 9200 SE (RV280)
ATI Radeon 9200 (RV280)
ATI Radeon 9200 Pro (RV280)
ATI Radeon 9250 (RV280)
ATI Radeon 9550 Mobility (no W3D)
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro (no W3D)
ATI Radeon 9650 (no W3D)
ATI Radeon 9600 XT (no W3D)
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro (no W3D)
ATI Radeon 9800 (no W3D)
ATI Radeon 9800 XT (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X600 XT (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X800 XT / Pro (R420) (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X1300 (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X1300 Pro (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X1550 (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X1600 (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X1600 Pro (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X1800 (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X1900 GT (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X1950 XT (no W3D)
ATI Radeon X1950 Pro (no W3D)
ATI FireGL X3 (R420) (no W3D)


With limited 3D hardware acceleration (W3D legacy software only):

3DFX Voodoo3 2000 (Avenger)
3DFX Voodoo3 3000 (Avenger)
3DFX Voodoo3 3500 (Avenger)
3DFX Voodoo4 4500 (Napalm)
3DFX Voodoo5 5500 (Napalm) (recognized as a Voodoo4, only one GPU is being used)
ATI Radeon 7000VE (RV100)
ATI Radeon 7200 (R100)
ATI Radeon 7500 (RV200)


With 2D graphics acceleration & hardware overlay:

AMD Radeon HD2900 GT, HD2900 Pro, HD2900 XT
AMD Radeon HD2350, HD2400, HD2400 Pro, HD2400 XT
AMD Radeon HD3450, HD3470, HD3550, HD3570
AMD Radeon HD2600, HD2600 Pro,HD2600 XT, HD3610
AMD Radeon HD3650, HD3730, HD3750, HD4580
AMD Radeon HD3830, HD3850, HD3870
AMD Radeon HD4350, HD4550, HD4570
AMD Radeon HD4670
AMD Radeon HD4750, HD4770
AMD Radeon HD4810, HD4830, HD4850, HD4870
AMD Radeon HD4860, HD4890
ATI Rage128 Pro


With 2D graphics acceleration, no overlay:

AMD Radeon HD5450, HD6350, HD7350, HD8350, R5 210
AMD Radeon HD5550, HD5570, HD5610, HD5670, FirePro 3D V3800, FirePro 3D V4800
AMD Radeon HD5750, HD5770, HD6750, HD6770
AMD Radeon HD5830, HD5850, HD5870, HD5870 Eyefinity Edition
AMD Radeon HD6450, HD7450, HD7470, HD8450, HD8470, HD8490, R5 220, R5 230, R5 235, R5 235X
AMD Radeon HD6570, HD6670, HD7510, HD7570, HD7670
AMD Radeon HD6790, HD6850, HD6870
3D Labs / Texas Instruments Permedia2
3D Labs / Texas Instruments Permedia2v
SiS 300 / 305
SiS 315
SiS 6326
XGI Volari V3XT
XGI Volari V5
XGI Volari V5XT
XGI Volari V8 (Ultra)


And then it comes down to what you really mean with "support". None of our operating systems are exactly providing Direct3D 12 functionality anyway, and our computers are way too weak to be able to fully saturate them (will change with AMD64 of course) and the Unity or Unreal engines etc aren't exactly here, so supporting "the latest" graphics cards is somewhat a bit of a waste of efforts (that could be better used elsewhere). I mean, sure, it's fun to run Quake3 time demo and score really high numbers, but that's only fun for so many times, right?

For all other purposes, the ATI Radeon X1950 XT is an excellent choice for the time being!




Quote:
and I guess this show how importent funding is to keep a the eco system like operating system up todate.


There is no real funding, not at the level you perhaps assume, i.e. to license key technologies from commercial entities that only does business in unit volumes of hundreds of thousands. No, our (very!) talanted MorphOS developers has to make the best and the most out of what they can get their hands on. And they have been doing a very fine job this far IMHO.

Sure, I would love to see Vulkan 1.1 on MorphOS. But I don't expect it. And I don't expect to ever be able to run Unreal based games on MorphOS anyway. But I'm fine with that, I have other systems for games.


Quote:
I guess the biggest argument for way going x86 was a bad idea, was that there were too many north and south bridge, graphic cards, sound cards to support, network cards, its a support nightmare to write all the drivers.


This has actually never been an issue! You simply pick one Chipset and one CPU-family, and you support that one! Easy Peasy! They will probably support one desktop and one laptop initially. At least that was what's been said somewhere in the past...

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 11:29:03
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1757
From: Unknown

I would more see AROS on ARM devices as it was always the "poor man" option.
On x64 i would welcome a focus on MorphOS.

Everything else is waste of resources..
Also an 68K AROS would be obsolete when 68K AmigaOS becomes OpenSource..
So i would seriously only go to ARM.. (AROS)

Just looking from a software creator point of view.

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vision 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 12:31:52
#31 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 480
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

http://kalamatee.blogspot.com/2019/06/ahh-how-time-flies.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubSfTa_hhek



WTF are you talking about? stop spreading BS while other people keep working and making things happen in spite of your attitudes.


@NutsAboutAmiga

@phoenixkonsole

Thank you for trying to keep the community divided. This is EXACTLY what we don't need. Anyway the Aros community didn't need you until now and won't need you at no point. Talkers and splitters instead of doers and helpers.

Last edited by vision on 13-Oct-2019 at 12:35 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 13:03:08
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

AROS on Raspberry Pi is a perfect match IMHO, both from a HW and OS point of view. Tinkerers, open source, low cost, etc.

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bison 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 14:59:15
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1458
From: N-Space

@TRIPOS

Quote:
You simply pick one Chipset and one CPU-family, and you support that one! Easy Peasy! They will probably support one desktop and one laptop initially

Yes, this is right. All they need is an affordable and readily available reference system, and then periodically update the spec (maybe one a year) as component availability changes.

Quote:
AROS on Raspberry Pi is a perfect match IMHO, both from a HW and OS point of view.

+1

Last edited by bison on 13-Oct-2019 at 03:07 PM.

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Argo 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 15:33:53
#34 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 303
From: St. Lawrence Co., NY, USA

@Kronos

Wow, what a waste of resources and hardware

but this is an AROS threat they have their own No need to troll this one

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 15:47:04
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1757
From: Unknown

@vision
lol ...
really...
lol

First of all I put like 50k in for, of money out of my pocket money into AROS.. if it was about drivers or paying devs in debts or by donating hardware..

Not counting the time i used...

So i am not starting to use some extra lovely words for you.. let's say i keep them for the next Amiga Event.

Whatever.. fact is that AROS got a big hit around the time when aros-exec is gone down..

AND about your splitting theory ..
are you nuts?

My sentences where about "coming together" ...

1. An open AmigaOS 3.x would allow to work on it..
2. Concentrating on ARM doesn't mean there would be no x64 , i386 compile of AROS..
it the same ####ing thing as before but you concentrate on ARM..

Its a come together. Take this from AROS.. put it into Open AmigaOS and vice versa. ..(depending of the license)

I am very happy to see you next time in person.. really I can't wait

PS: You post something from KAL .. ok.. good example

PPS: Ojectively ask Vampire people about AROS and or AmigaOS 3.x .. go drink a beer with Hyperion and Cloanto to find a ####ing consensus which makes all happy and let nobody stand as a looser.. Thats the work to do and only solution for Amiga...

Because of the reality in terms of human resources:
PPC custom Mainbords: AOS4 + MorphOS + Open AmigaOS (if cloanto and hyperion find an agreement)
i386: AROS as 32bit is dead, OpenAmigaOS
x64: AROS, MorphOS, OpenAmigaOS

OpenAmigaOS would be wisely underlaying an license compatible to AROS.. problems solved.

Hyperion could also device to create just an OpenAmigaOS distribution ...

Its just about combining resources. At the end we talk about different "visual" appearances .
AND: EVERYONE IS WORKING TOGETHER... you ####ing sh++f+ce

PPPS: Sorry in PPS i use warm words.. wasn't my intention

PPPPS: I just worked on a way to finance aros development since June 2018... and i managed to make it true .. but.. hmm.. really? #### YOU




PPPPS: Just talking ... i didn't post here since june 2018 more than 3 - 5 times .. and you ? I do.. you talk ..

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 13-Oct-2019 at 04:05 PM.
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Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 13-Oct-2019 at 03:50 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 13-Oct-2019 at 03:48 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 13-Oct-2019 at 03:47 PM.

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ASiegel 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 16:36:52
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 185
From: Unknown

Just a quick note to confirm that ARES Computer (phoenixkonsole) did in fact contribute almost 2,000 USD to AROS-related bounty projects at Power2People and encouraged users of their AROS distributions to make donations as well.

There is simply no other AROS or Amiga related company that contributed nearly as much.

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:
First of all I put like 50k in for, of money out of my pocket money into AROS.. if it was about drivers or paying devs in debts or by donating hardware..


Does this include your own projects (games, Hollywood-based apps)? This seems like a lot of money but it is not obvious to me what you got in return.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 17:02:04
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1757
From: Unknown

@ASiegel
It includes payments behind power2poeple and yes in fact "closed" development which than made be public anyway along the line and year off-side stuff too including apps kept back. Also sometimes payed stuff was seen later on p2p to be made public

A bit anoying is only what happened since the aros-exec rant between a member and a dev.. later i have followed some mailing list discussions which wasnt really "tasty"..

Michal Schulz is a one man army.. same as Deadwood did a lot important things.. Ncafferky on Network.. Davy Wentzler (excuse me if i write it wrong out of my head) did a great job on sound drivers..

I am still waiting for FinalWriter : ) But I am fine if it comes somewhen before I die.

And I must admit i closed my eyes after some last emails I've read when I thought "OOHHH Deadwood comes back!" Everything feels a little bit wrong since aros-exec is down.. : )

But yeah I am getting old and cold + realistic .. less enthusiastic .. but seriously after talking to involved of all sides I find my "vision" of how it can go on just the only way to go.

Give mOS a chance on x64 .. focus on low cost ARM and Cloanto even made "big eyes" when there was talk about opening 3.x source... of course I understand that Hyperion invested at some point a lot and so there should be found a gentlemen agreement .. BAM ... The guys would be heroes.

And all the work done on 68k AROS wouldn't be a waste! In fact it just was the required lightning to open peoples mind.. So also 68K AROS devs would be heroes..

And don't forget AROS cross compiling .. so all branches can benefit from ARM focused development. Also x64 AROS... and ARM does by x64 development, so will also MOS have benefits and the other way around...

If cloanto / hyperion go OpenSource than the license is important...

--- i just wanted to express my 2 cents of view --- Thank you for being able to speak out my thought without being attacked : )

Don't take it wrong but I see the community decided not really by Code Bases.. the common denomitor is the Amiga .. but we are divided by pockets. From all options i find a Raspberry Pi a perfect target for a low cost toy.. MorphOS stands for "if it is free, it is bullshit" .. i like this and they try to focus on defined targets. I can assume they will evaluate chipset combinations and focus on one. This will allow Amiga Dealers to create Compatible PC's.. and i see "more expensive ones". So cheap = ARM = AROS and MOS could be both but I assume the users will like to go full power.

Lately I sell PC's in the price range of 12K .. ask me what i would favour.. Selling one PC around 3K with 3-7% revenue or a Pi with 3-7% revenue ? Hmm ? Just another 2 cents.
I always offered compatible PC's called AresOne.. as the PI image came out, nobody cared.. everyone before bought a second PC so it wasn't meant to be "expensive". It had to have a silent Geforce 8400 for 3D .... so it was always a low cost as possible in AROS land.. so -> ARM soc would nail what AROS interested people like to have.. low-cost

EDIT again...
If AROS native works on Raspberry Pi Zero, i donate one to every AmigaFuture subscriber.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 13-Oct-2019 at 05:29 PM.
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vision 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 17:36:29
#38 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 480
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

LoL

So you thought I don't know who you are?? really?? at this point? :facepalm:

Please refine your reading understanding, cause I was clearly talking about what you said in your previous post: If you are encouraging Morphos (the obvious origin of all community splitting just because a wrong german pride) a system that, spite of its polishment in some areas and applications, lacks ALL THAT IS CRUCIAL for the survival of the platform (name it: x64 and/or ARM, 3D HW acceleration, respect for the Amiga OS structure and design, etc...) you are just dividing and spreading confussion, and I will tell you again: from a community pov, this is the wrost possible behaviour right now.

I don't care what you did in the past FOR YOU OWN BENEFIT (business) but now you ask for a kind of reciprocity between Aros and "Open AmigaOS" which never was given to the opposite side until now, but on the contrary, Aros was ignored, ridiculized, opposed, discredited, its possible resources taken away as much as possible, and upon of that you know that "collaboration" is kind of IMPOSSIBLE right now because of the legal dispute. So, what do you ask for now? rescue Amiga OS by wasting vital aros resources??

Yeah, sure!

"Open AmigaOS"? Yeah: BS! there is already an Open Amiga OS, it is called AROS, and any other inventions from you, do you know the only thing it contributes?

Hope you figured it for yourself: DIVISION.

If you enjoy spreading it, keep on going with your propaganda, but don't try to confuse everyone else.

Last edited by vision on 13-Oct-2019 at 05:38 PM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 17:54:56
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1757
From: Unknown

@vision

puh.. i didn't do Business i did funding you f*ckmo++er

german pride ? Hmm.. wow.. you know me and my roots : ) idiot

Well you live in your "reality" and i meet people and talk to them.. so I believe my realty is in fact the "truth".. and maybe i live in tomorrow compared to you living in your stucked and very black and white painted very very sad reality.

AROS will be there and going to be developed .. did you understand what i say?
I can tell you numbers .. I know what users want.. YOU believe your own view is interesting to anybody.. wake up

Eh.. Deviding ?
What?
Go on with x64 AROS.. where is the problem ? .. MOS guys can take it anyway because of APL .. so what? Are you drunk ?

Counted by interest AROS should focus on ARM.. Icaros ARM... where is the ####ing problem ? If you want a big community.. go arm

And "german pride" .. wow.. what a shit argument against an immigrant
You forgot to call me Kraut to underline it

EDIT:
AND: In fact you would have done better if you "disagreed" with my point instead of attacking me you greedy f***er ..

What propaganda.. it was just a "how I see it"
But if you like i can take my phone BUY Hyperions willing and BUY CLOANTOS willing or just PAY both parties to become friends ... So what? Putting the Drama to and end

If company 1 belives to have rights and company 2 believes the same.. Do you think Company 3 owning both has ALL rights ?

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 13-Oct-2019 18:22:03
#40 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

@phoenixkonsole

Don't bother.

Vision don't know much about the history or the future. Let him dream on.

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