@ssolie

I will be happy if the Tabor is out and works well with os 4.1. And will be happy if there is process and there wil come 4.2 or 4.3 etc.

I d'ont care who is the owner and who is not. It is the result what is for us users inportent.

Of course i see that it is extremely still on the site of Hypirion. No updates in years for os4.1 ...
In the Morphos team there are very nice updates.

In the mean time i am using my powerbook with Morphos.
For the games my pi with amibian.
And for the big things my mac with osx.

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@outrun1978

Quote:

TripOS, the self styled spokesman for the MorphOS team (For anyone new to this circus and is actually confused on who these faceless protagonists are, he actually doesn't officially speak for the MorphOS team, nor does he form part of that development team)

Personally, I am quite confident that you are the only person in the history of mankind who has ever confused TRIPOS with a spokesperson for any project based on his posts on this website. His posts do not suggest in any way that he is speaking for a team of developers. Clearly, he is quite outspoken about his views as an individual.

In my opinion, it is rather puzzling that you appear to blame (and even publicly shame) a community member for your own mistake of attributing a role to him that he did not pretend to have in the first place.

@ASiegel

I am not really interested in your snide comments, or in your opinions period. You appear not really serve any valuable purpose for your team aside from turning people off your product.


I actually feel sorry for your colleagues, many of them work hard, are passionate in what they do, and want to succeed. I notice you haven’t had the decency to reply back publicly to DiscreetFX’s question when he asked if there was anything he could do to help for graphic card development.


Quote:

ASiegel If I can help with testing to get better support for MorphOS on the X5000 please let me know. I’d like to help improve the situation for others.

It appears someone is clearly upset because I have publicly chosen to criticise your product which as a paid licence holder, I am well entitled to do. Unless of course there was something in your terms and conditions that state I cannot criticise your product on public forums/reviews. Learn to deal with criticism, take comments on board to help improve your products.

A non-Amiga mate of mine who uses only a PC, was with me at Amiga34. He made a very valid point to me about my X5000 recently , first he was shocked that so many people are still interested after so long, and second he is of the opinion that with my setup I have AmigaOS for the fun stuff and Linux for the serious stuff. Which begs the question with this being the case what is the use of MorphOS? Especially as you had nothing to play around with at the show. 😉

He quite liked the look of the A1222 and was really impressed with the Vampire, if he felt like that imagine what other non Amiga users attending that show must have thought. Perhaps they had puzzled look Ben Hermans had when he looked at your Ryzen set up which was just a blue screen, with lots of do not touch signs?

Respect to Ben Hermans for crossing the floor to actually take a look at your table, given your history that really must have taken a lot.

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@Kotler

Quote:

What is left of AmigaOS 4.x? Is there actually anyone working on it?

Most of it is left. Yes there people working on it.

Quote:

A-Eon have bought many components and developed them further.

Yes but the system can function without these. The graphic driver is needed to make full use of a modern card. There are additional gadget classes. And the rest would include programs that FE broke. Or broke in FE.

Quote:

Now, even the new kernel destined for AmigaOS 4.2

And until futher notice would still be worked on by the same people.

Quote:

It doesn?t bode well for a new, full AmigaOS 4.x release.

My X1000 is still waiting for it. It doesn't bode well when an excuse is put in between that says you must pay extra for this version before OS4.2 in order to get your free upgrade to OS4.2. It doesn't bode well for the user either when they should be able to buy a fully working copy of the OS but instead by must by a base system then purchase other components from a third party vendor. I doubt anyone cares about who owns what when all they want is one integrated OS that can be fully installed as is.

@Hypex

Yes, this what worries me too, when you have to buy different packages poorly labeled, resulting having to buy several packages you did not need, or buying the wrong ones. As we already seen with, enhancement packages. It worries me having to install different parts that have not tested together in its entirety. I also hate having to buy it from the broken AmiStore application that crash, fail in the middle of download or registration in database. Where you have contact support to get what you have payed for. Give me web-shop that works, so I can use a web browser on Windows or Linux that works, instead of having to suffer Amiga web browsers with security holes and crashes, or with little or no JavaScript support.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 24-Oct-2019 at 06:24 PM.

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@outlawal2

Quote:

outlawal2 wrote: @kas1e Unfortunately, ridiculous as it may seem, it IS important as there are legal ramifications and as we have all seen anything Amiga related always ends up stuck in "legaleze". People seem to forget that words DO mean something and when dealing with legaleze every word and punctuation mark counts and must be understood or we end up right where we are today. Part of that mess is "who" owns a particular item or trademark and while on a conceptual level we "understand" ownership, to the legal world what we understand may not be legally correct. Hence the loads of Bullshit we are so familiar with in Amigaland.

I'm getting old now, or at least older to the point that certain memories are harder to recall than others, so help me out here and tell me how much "legaleze" and how many lawsuits were dragging down the whole Amiga community before Hyperion and it's lawyer owner fooled Bill McEwen into signing a contract that would cause him to lose control of the IP for AmigaOS4? Seems to me that ever since Hyperion gained the IP rights to AmigaOS4 and some licenses for trademarks "Amigaland" has been repeatedly been dragged further down by legal battles that waste thousands of dollars of potential development funds, and don't result in anything good for the community. Perhaps it is time to send Hyperion a message they will understand, by no longer supporting their business style with our pocketbooks? I know where I'm going to invest my money to support this community, and where I'm NOT going to send any money, what about you?

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@amigakit

Quote:

amigakit wrote: Both Mark and Frank have been very supportive of the A-EON hardware projects in providing important software development. We are very grateful for the contribution they have made - which has been to the benefit of OS4 equally as much as MorphOS.

Yes, the people possessing their special kind of competence remaining in this platform (all flavors combined) could easily be counted on your fingers.


Quote:

My hope is that the X5000 will become a unifying platform as we continue working with them in future.

A noble hope, that I suppose won’t happen by itself. If you are serious in this I suppose you could show it by putting all those you wish to unite on display in your own booth during future shows for example?

The X5000 is your product. A nice uniting thing would be to be able to show a single X5000 machine triple-booting into OS4, MorphOS and AROS running hosted on Linux. If this can’t be done, how could the X5000 (as a system) possibly be considered as a common denominator? As I understand the situation, there are currently problems regarding the graphics situation here? A problem that put that “outrun”-fellow above (who apparently is a X5000 customer) in a very alienating mode, if you followed his rambling posts during the last weeks. And one other customer of yours as well, who raised hell over MorphOS for the X5000’s inability to dualboot. The very opposite of your hopes, right? So I suppose for this to happen it would require you to envision, plan and execute in a wider scope when it comes to choosing HW components like graphics cards and/or driver development for said platforms (in plural)?

Last edited by TRIPOS on 24-Oct-2019 at 07:04 PM.

@TRIPOS

We can boot AmigaOS, MorphOS, and GNU/Linux just fine at present. The only real issue is that the GPUs supported by MorphOS do not have Warp3D or Warp3DNova capability under AmigaOS, and the cards that support 3D acceleration under GNU/Linux and AmigaOS aren't supported at all under MorphOS. So we can triple boot if you're willing to give up 3D acceleration.

I'm sure this is a problem that will be solved over time.

-- eliyahu

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@amigadave

The point is that development has not been compensated in its full, resulting in separate parts being owned by different groups of people, the lack of found from Amiga Inc, Amiga Inc not being able to provide source code. It had to obtained from different source, and resulting big delays and this in the heart of original dispute between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. The community and Amiga Inc did also not share visons, nor did Hyperion share its visons with Amiga Inc, the future was in Amiga Inc's mind Amiga DE digital environment or Intent / AA, AmigaOS5 was going to base on Amiga DE, not AmigaOS4.x, AmigaOS4.x was going to simple port of AmigaOS3.x in the simplest form. That did not happen, instead ExecSG was born to provide proper PowerPC native kernel for AmigaOS. That was never in the plans and there for never payed for.

MorphOS team was offered to work with Amiga Inc, and Hyperion, they decided it was best to stay the hell out of that mess, you say the draw the longest straw. MorphOS was distributed with illegally containing 680x0 exe files from OS3.x, in early days, they managed to replace this quickly before being sued, they cleaned up the mess, making sure it a clean room implementation, to avoid any legal disputes. The legal treats effected the relation between the companies, and has made sure no cooperation was possible.

The legal disputes between Microsoft Windows, and LindowsOS in 2004, might provided some insightes on what was possible to do without resulting copyright infringements.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @amigadave The point is that development has not been compensated in its full, resulting in separate parts being owned by different groups of people, the lack of found from Amiga Inc, Amiga Inc not being able to provide source code. It had to obtained from different source, and resulting big delays and this in the heart of original dispute between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. The community and Amiga Inc did also not share visons, nor did Hyperion share its visons with Amiga Inc, the future was in Amiga Inc's mind Amiga DE digital environment or Intent / AA, AmigaOS5 was going to base on Amiga DE, not AmigaOS4.x, AmigaOS4.x was going to simple port of AmigaOS3.x in the simplest form. That did not happen, instead ExecSG was born to provide proper PowerPC native kernel for AmigaOS. That was never in the plans and there for never payed for. MorphOS team was offered to work with Amiga Inc, and Hyperion, they decided it was best to stay the hell out of that mess, you say the draw the longest straw. MorphOS was distributed with illegally containing 680x0 exe files from OS3.x, in early days, they managed to replace this quickly before being sued, they cleaned up the mess, making sure it a clean room implementation, to avoid any legal disputes. The legal treats effected the relation between the companies, and has made sure no cooperation was possible.

You really need to take Everything you ever learned or heard from Ben Hermans and his Hyperion, and delete it from your brain, and carefully wash it clean with bleach afterwards. Especially the parts of MorphOS using illegal code.

Practically every single thing you said in that post was erroneous!

Last edited by TRIPOS on 24-Oct-2019 at 07:43 PM.

@TRIPOS

Quote:

So almost everyone was correct in their speculations then, good to finally know!

Yes, and I'm wondering... can AROS be modified to run on ExecSG?

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@bison

I guess you can port all AROS shell command and so on to ExecSG If you wanted to do that, ExecSG is just the kernel and other components that was not originally in AmigaOS3.x, but is required to run everything else on.

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@bison

I believe AROS already have an “Exec”, and that they have been experimenting with 64-bit, SMP etc for quite some time now...

@TRIPOS

Does it run well on PPC? I see the nightly builds are sparse for PPC, which is why I'm wondering if it is stable or experimental? I've only run the X86_64 builds, so I'm not sure.

Last edited by bison on 24-Oct-2019 at 08:12 PM.
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@TRIPOS

It's not that long ago I read up some stuff from ANN.lu, its kind finny in retrospect, the cooperation between MorphOS and Hyperion broke down, because Ben trusted the kernel design to Hyperion, and MorphOS team had a different vison of how the kernel should look like. At the time there was amitalon and it restricted by Linux, Hyperion did not wont that, they did not get the idea of hypervisor, micro kernel design like quark was supposed to be, and frankly it divided the community into two as well. Anyway Amiga community had lots history from Atari / Amiga food wars before that its carried on a tradition I guess.

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@eliyahu

Quote:

I'm sure this is a problem that will be solved over time

I’d put more money on a functioning up to date browser for AmigaOS 4 appearing first. Not only is that a sure fire winner but it will be a far more satisfying return.

Ask yourself this question if like me, you find AmigaOS is giving you the fun, and we have Linux on the X5000 in various forms (Debian,Ubuntu,Fienix,OpenSuSE) for any serious stuff. Why do we need to even switch on MorphOS? To get any proper benefit out of it, you have to really compromise on your graphics card to the point that even Linux becomes pretty useless because of the age of OpenGL on these cards. Believe me I’ve tried more than a few cards on my machine from X1550 up to series 6000 cards. What benefit are we getting from switching on MorphOS that we can’t get elsewhere?

Sometimes you have to accept that the impossible just isn’t possible, better to to enjoy what you have in front of you and the X5000 is a really special machine and yes that is even without being able to run MorphOS.

My PC owning mate who came with me to Amiga34 struggled to understand the relevance and value of the MorphOS offering in the current crowded marketplace. He understood what the Vampire lot were trying to do in keeping 68K running, he got and understood what A-EON were doing with AmigaOS and their new machines, he very much appreciated and understood Amikit and their emulation target market, but the one he really struggled to understand was the purpose of MorphOS especially when he felt their immediate focus is catering to a bunch of people who want to run what is essentially a clone of AmigaOS with 90% of the same software but ageing obsolete hardware with a limited set of specifications.

He also made a very interesting observation at the demographic in attendance at Amiga 34, all systems and projects were lacking people in their late teens-early 20’s you know the type of people that can devote their time and resources to code, make stuff etc.

Someone needs to really chase this demographic if you wish to keep your hobby platform relevant in this current day and age and for there to be any hope in the future.

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@bison

Nightly build will always be unstable, as they contain the latest changes, for good or for worst, it sure also contain the latest fixes as well as the latest bugs. So it has debated if the way Hyperion does it, where beta testers has test things forever before it ready for end user is good thing, or if better to get updates often, even if stuff might slightly buggy. I think in the end, there is no good answer to that. It depends on if you live with few bugs, as longs as you get x,y,z.

Frankly I find it where hard to work, if can't trust the OS or components that I build on.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

None of your post made any sense and neither has any relation to what really went down......

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@outrun1978

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@Kronos

Yes I know, what really happened is secret, but Ben is Evil, no one else did anything wrong, at the time

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